Should private schools be abolished?

[steveo]

Gove goes on about bringing state education up to the standards of private education - reduce our class sizes then you tool.

I get it. Build more schools employ more teachers. Where does the money come from? Easy, tax people who earn more. Same old Labour stuff.

 

[OldBlueLady]

. Gove goes on about bringing state education up to the standards of private education - reduce our class sizes then you tool.

More to the point, stop expecting quite often poorly educated TAs to "teach" children in intervention groups and allow them to get on with supporting a class as a whole. Teachers have gone through a long process in learning how to be teachers, TAs haven't so stop expecting them to teach.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I get it. Build more schools employ more teachers. Where does the money come from? Easy, tax people who earn more. Same old Labour stuff.

This is Gove stuff and I don't believe he votes Labour. He says he wants state schools to become like private schools but the fundamental difference is class sizes - so talk to him about cost and taxation.

 

[steveo]

This is Gove stuff and I don't believe he votes Labour. He says he wants state schools to become like private schools but the fundamental difference is class sizes - so talk to him about cost and taxation.

Ok, so you know of a way to reduce class sizes without building more schools or employing more teachers. Please enlighten me.

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

Ok, so you know of a way to reduce class sizes without building more schools or employing more teachers. Please enlighten me.

Move to France,senior school in England roughly 150 kids in a year group,my kids senior school has 120 kids in the whole school,shut up toady no one cares.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm sure all those who have sacrificed so much for their kids' education will be delighted you feel like that. I have to say I disagree with you totally on this.

Kay,
It would be a dull old world if we (and everyone else) agreed on the important things in life, (like SUFC,education etc), all the time.:smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Arguably because it's a minor issue against the main point of your thread that you're so far failing miserably to advocate. If it was for the public good (ie: reducing strain on non-private education), we should support it. If it's primarily a tax device, we should no doubt axe it.

But why should 'richer parents' (and those prepared to make specific sacrifices of this kind) howl if it was abolished? It's a choice for them now and it'd be a choice without charitable status that I suspect many would continue to take. However you look at it, 'richer parents' putting their kids through private schooling are actively supporting education in this country directly through taxation at source and by reducing the strain on non-private education.

The ne'er-do-wells and those intent on pulling everyone else ever down are the ones most likely to continue to howl - as you are seemingly proving.

I think Richard Hoggart* puts it far better than I ever could:-

"We are still a badly under-educated nation;we waste the brains to be found in large parts of society as though they grew on untended trees,and we need only leave aside the masses of windfalls."

Incidentally, he wrote that in 1994.

I certainly don't think the situation since then has improved.


























*Townscape with Figures;Farnham-Portrait of an English Town.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Ok, so you know of a way to reduce class sizes without building more schools or employing more teachers. Please enlighten me.

There isn't a way as far as I know. What is Gove talking about when he says state schools should be more like private schools? That the teachers don't have to be qualified? That Ofsted don't need to visit? That they can ignore the national curriculum? I can't see any advantage in these so if he is not talking about reduced class sizes I can only assume he has lost the plot.

 

[londonblue]

I believe the Grammar Schools are still probably worth attending, though only just. As for the rest, I refer my honourable friend to my earlier statement.

So you're only talking about secondary schools, not primary?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

There isn't a way as far as I know. What is Gove talking about when he says state schools should be more like private schools? That the teachers don't have to be qualified? That Ofsted don't need to visit? That they can ignore the national curriculum? I can't see any advantage in these so if he is not talking about reduced class sizes I can only assume he has lost the plot.

Ignoring the national curriculum would be a positive. And having teachers that were untainted by the leftist bile of our educational establishment would also help.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

State primary schools seem to be nothing more than extended playschools.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Ignoring the national curriculum would be a positive. And having teachers that were untainted by the leftist bile of our educational establishment would also help.

I'm not sure I agree with ignoring the national curriculum Rusty, that kind of disregard has allowed certain schools which have been in the news here recently to flourish.

Bringing schools back under central control would also mean they can be judged on a more level playing field.

 

[dingleydangley]

State primary schools seem to be nothing more than extended playschools.

What do you base this on? How would you improve them? Bigger portions of leftist bile in the school dinners?

 

[steveo]

Ignoring the national curriculum would be a positive. .

Good idea. Or changing it to something more useful. You can get on in life by learning to read and write and learning how numbers work. Knowing who was the fifth wife of Henry 8th, or the capital of Katmandu might be useful in a pub quiz but these sort of subjects should be downgraded to "interests" and can be studied/learnt in your own time. RE? If you are interested, go to Church. Art? Practise at home.
You can't make someone cleverer than they are. Teaching them stuff will not make them smarter.
Trim the curriculum down to include loads more maths, plenty of English - forget English lit you can learn that for yourself - include PE or some sort of sporting activity - cooking ( mainly for girls obviously), and money management which if done properly would teach people not to get themselves into a **** load of debt.
Save History, Geography, Biology, RE for people who want a career which needs knowledge of those subjects and teach them at University. Foreign language? Pointless, everyone speaks English.
Teach kids the basics and whilst at it teach them some discipline and respect. If they can't behave kick them out of school and let them get on with it.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Good idea. Or changing it to something more useful. You can get on in life by learning to read and write and learning how numbers work. Knowing who was the fifth wife of Henry 8th, or the capital of Katmandu might be useful in a pub quiz but these sort of subjects should be downgraded to "interests" and can be studied/learnt in your own time.

To be fair, the Tudors is a big part of the National Curriculum for year 5 and it's cross curricular so they use it in English, Art, History and Geography. Most schools make a project of it for a whole term, it's a great chance for the children to experience life in Tudor times, and personally, I think that's very important - they can visit and appreciate many wonderful great houses, castles and palaces which are part of our history. We did Hampton Court one year, Hever Castle another, there's also Kentwell Hall and even Southchurch Hall and Hadleigh Castle which have relevance.

 

[Pubey]

Good idea. Or changing it to something more useful. You can get on in life by learning to read and write and learning how numbers work. Knowing who was the fifth wife of Henry 8th, or the capital of Katmandu might be useful in a pub quiz but these sort of subjects should be downgraded to "interests" and can be studied/learnt in your own time. RE? If you are interested, go to Church. Art? Practise at home.
You can't make someone cleverer than they are. Teaching them stuff will not make them smarter.
Trim the curriculum down to include loads more maths, plenty of English - forget English lit you can learn that for yourself - include PE or some sort of sporting activity - cooking ( mainly for girls obviously), and money management which if done properly would teach people not to get themselves into a **** load of debt.
Save History, Geography, Biology, RE for people who want a career which needs knowledge of those subjects and teach them at University. Foreign language? Pointless, everyone speaks English.
Teach kids the basics and whilst at it teach them some discipline and respect. If they can't behave kick them out of school and let them get on with it.

It's not so much the knowledge you gain, but it's the training in the process of learning which is important. Something like history is an opportunity to develop skills in research, coursework, thinking critically etc etc.

Obviously biology would be important for learning about the scientific process just as much as learning about photosynthesis. Physics is the application of maths etc.

It also gives people the opportunity to find topics and subjects they like for taking further.

 

[* ORM *]

Same old tired lefty arguments and I'm no big fan of the right either. Nothing in this life is a given. I want a Ferrari. I can't afford one but I brought up my kids to aspire to have one not educate them that life is unfair and handouts are the way to go. If we sterilised everyone north of Watford that would be a start. In fact devolution for London and the South. You heard it here first

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Same old tired lefty arguments and I'm no big fan of the right either. Nothing in this life is a given. I want a Ferrari. I can't afford one but I brought up my kids to aspire to have one not educate them that life is unfair and handouts are the way to go. If we sterilised everyone north of Watford that would be a start. In fact devolution for London and the South. You heard it here first

Something they drum into you at all schools is to read the question and read through your answer to make sure you have answered the question....

 

[LCBB]

Some of the pervy masters should be .

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

Bring back grammar schools.