Zone Update Shrimpers Trust Statement

[The Late One]

I've always been sceptical about people who want to sign up for commitee's and get involved with things like this because on a couple of occasions when I've got involved in anything like that the politics and self-interest of some parties has put me off very quickly.

I agree with your comments and was on the Trust committee on and off for nine years, so read into that what you like!!

 

[Ex-SouthendUnitedEmployee]

It felt that the Trust had thrown their toys out of the pram because they didn't get the 'exclusive' from Ron first. They seem to think that they have the right to have the information first before it become public knowledge. OK, the arugement is they were facing lots of questions from fans, and wanted to answer, but then the information was always going to be withheld until it was ready for public release. You can't have a situation where you tell 'selected' fans first, who then dribble information onto those who ask" As a business you keep your cards close to your chest until your ready to lay them down on the deck.

Whilst I applud the thought of the helpers who collected money in the buckets, I like others on here felt it was not required, even RM stated this. We now have a sitution where the Trust have collected over £6000, but it is not going to 'Save Southend', to which is was collected for. We have seen many football clubs do this in their plight, and the Trust was maybe too quick to do this. The fact the 'Trust' had stated that the money was not going to the club, came across as if they did not trust the club, and that others should not trust the club either.

Had the Club asked for supporters to raise money I would of myself donated money to the cause. I'm sure had RM wished this, the Trust ALONGSIDE the club would of raise a substantial amount of cash, especially with a marketing team at their disposal.



The efforts show that the supporters care, and that's great to see, but although your heart may think your helping, others may see this in a different light. And this is why fans, should never ever ever run a football club, but the heart will always win against the head when it comes to your football team.

I sincerly hope that come Saturday Afternoon, the squabbles, the pain and the tribulations have died down, and that we can put this sorry sorry episode behind us and let the debt payment be a big morale boost for the Blues! Although there have been dissagreements on here, when that whistle blows at three, we are United!

 

[chadded]

The Trust has a web site. It's there in the accounts. It's no secret.

I can't see it on the website.

 

[Ron Manager]

Well I'm a member but I don't see why I can't be critical about certain things the trust have done.

Couldn't agree more, of course you have a right to be critical. That's the whole point of this forum. We post our opinions on here and often those opinions will be different to other peoples and at times like this it's understandable that tensions run high. Just as long as every now and again we step back and acknowledge other people's right to their own views then it will all stay on the right side of reasoned debate.

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

I can't see it on the website.

Agreed. It says £6251 has been raised from the current appeal, not how much the Trust could use if needed. The 'fighting fund' clearly won't just be what's been raised in the last few days.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I agree with ESB to be honest. There was a quite obvious anti-ron tone to the trust statements, which I didn't think was necessary. It doesn't appear that the trust have strengthened relationships between them and SUFC. The fact they went against RMs request to not start fundraising seemed to lack faith... Did you ever think that perhaps he knew what he was doing, enough so to reject fans support?

Also, how much is in the fighting fund?

There was a sceptical tone to the Trust statements, but I think that was fully justified. RM wasn't interested in co-operating with the SUSCT (a worrying development when previously he's been keen to do so) and wasn't providing any clues as to how he was hoping to get the finances. I appreciate the fact that he was busy, that some of the information may have been commercially sensitive, but he's been pretty elusive on the subject for some time.

Given how close to the deadline we sailed, it was imperative that we had contingency plans in place.

A Century United first asked the question - 'How big is the 'Fighting Fund,'' five days ago. All we have been met with is silence. Granted, the question was asked in this thread, and not on headed paper so to speak, but no one can deny that it is a valid question, and that plenty of people who would have or have access to this information, have responded to this thread, conveniently bypassing the question, even though it has been re-asked a number of times.

Put simply to the Trust- You don't like it when others hide information from you, but you are hiding information from others.

I asked and was told what the figure approximately was. It wasn't enough to pay the tax bill.

 

[chadded]

I asked and was told what the figure approximately was. It wasn't enough to pay the tax bill.

I didn't expect it to be anywhere near £660k.

So how much were you 'approximately' told?

If I was in the UK, I'd be tempted to back on my comment of a few hours ago about not joining the trust, just to go the the AGM in a weeks time to ask the question....

 

[TITSUP]

I've been back on this forum for a day after two years and it's amazing how little has changed!

RM gets the club in the clarts, the Trust puts its emergency plans into operations, liaises with the club, keep fans informed of as much as they know, and wait for the **** to hit the fan.

Fans wait with baited breath, RM take it right to the wire, walks on water and then what happens,

certain people go after the Trust like a dog at broth. The Trust can do no right, whatever they do.

I, too, have been on the Trust Committee and for all those who are still there, you have my admiration. The layman hasn't a clue what goes on behind the scenes. As for me, I had to come away from Southend United altogether. I got too close so had to get away so I could hopefully come back later to RH to support the Shrimpers, if you can understand that. I hope that that time is soon.

As for RM, not wanting to have anything to do with the Trust, do me a favour! He'll want a meeting soon for advice on this or that, or help to acheive this or that.

I think that baldyian hit the nail on the head with his "how Ron runs his business" quote which was well picked up by Libertine.

Southend United is not RMs business, it is our club and he is only looking after it, and not too well at the moment.

The Trust is looking after the collective fans interest, they are not looking after their own, beleive me. However, the same old few keep sniping at them. Think about it, imagine how things would have been if the Southend United Supporters Club Trust Ltd (trading as The Shrimpers Trust) had not been there over the past ten years?

 

[chadded]

Southend United is not RMs business, it is our club and he is only looking after it, and not too well at the moment.

Now that, I just cannot agree with. It is, whether you like it or not, his business. He owns something that we all hold dear to our hearts. Seeing it as 'our club' is, as someone else I think has said, letting your heart rule your head.

SUFC is a business. In exactly the same way Tesco's, Argos, Debbies Massage Service or Mr Patel's newsagent is. It provides a service to paying customers. Us.

 

[Ron Manager]

Now that, I just cannot agree with. It is, whether you like it or not, his business. He owns something that we all hold dear to our hearts. Seeing it as 'our club' is, as someone else I think has said, letting your heart rule your head.

SUFC is a business. In exactly the same way Tesco's, Argos, Debbies Massage Service or Mr Patel's newsagent is. It provides a service to paying customers. Us.

Sorry mate, I think much of what you post makes sense but I can't agree with that sentiment. Yes the heart rules the head a little and that isn't always a good thing, it has to be run as a business to stop overspending and getting into trouble. Therefore if we were in the black and Ron was getting stick for not getting the cheque book out and buying players then I would defend him to the hilt...as I've done in the past.

However he has made gambles which has put the future of the club at risk. Like it or not this is not just another business, it is a football club and he has an obligation not just for the present day but to maintain that for future generations.

 

[TrueBlue]

I agree with your comments and was on the Trust committee on and off for nine years, so read into that what you like!!

I have never had ANY self interest being with the trust.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I simply don't get this - on Tuesday, Ron Martin was the anti-Christ, being prepared to be hung out to dry.....fast forward 24 hours and suddenly the Trust are the biggest villains this side of Gulch Creek.

WTF is the matter with some of you? If you actually bothered to attend the Trust AGMs - that is, if you were minded to join in the first place - then you'd have access to the accounts. There's nothing secret about it at all but personally, I just don't see the need to publicise it all over the internet.

The bucket collection was carried out because a majority of the committee (democratic decision) wanted to do it, and the overwhelming indications from supporters of both SUFC and other clubs was that they wanted it done.

I may be out of line here but I'm fed up with the barrage of criticism, the statements - do you not think for one moment that they were written without the advice from people with the relevant experience in these situations? Of course they weren't, the tone and content was exactly what we were advised to use.

So just back off, stop criticising and get back to discussing whose back doors you want to bash and other more typical Zone stuff. I'm so bloody angry with some of you it's not true.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I simply don't get this - on Tuesday, Ron Martin was the anti-Christ, being prepared to be hung out to dry.....fast forward 24 hours and suddenly the Trust are the biggest villains this side of Gulch Creek.

WTF is the matter with some of you? If you actually bothered to attend the Trust AGMs - that is, if you were minded to join in the first place - then you'd have access to the accounts. There's nothing secret about it at all but personally, I just don't see the need to publicise it all over the internet.

The bucket collection was carried out because a majority of the committee (democratic decision) wanted to do it, and the overwhelming indications from supporters of both SUFC and other clubs was that they wanted it done.

I may be out of line here but I'm fed up with the barrage of criticism, the statements - do you not think for one moment that they were written without the advice from people with the relevant experience in these situations? Of course they weren't, the tone and content was exactly what we were advised to use.

So just back off, stop criticising and get back to discussing whose back doors you want to bash and other more typical Zone stuff. I'm so bloody angry with some of you it's not true.

Find a new PR rep.

 

[chadded]

Sorry mate, I think much of what you post makes sense but I can't agree with that sentiment. Yes the heart rules the head a little and that isn't always a good thing, it has to be run as a business to stop overspending and getting into trouble. Therefore if we were in the black and Ron was getting stick for not getting the cheque book out and buying players then I would defend him to the hilt...as I've done in the past.

However he has made gambles which has put the future of the club at risk. Like it or not this is not just another business, it is a football club and he has an obligation not just for the present day but to maintain that for future generations.

Firstly, can I say how much I'm enjoying this thread. For the first time in what seems an eternity, there's some really constructive debating going on.

As for the gambles- has he? Really? Now I'm don't totally agree that the credit crunch is the only reason behind the troubles at SUFC. Far from it. But I don't think RM has done too much wrong.

We as a club got relegated from the Championship in 2007. I may be wrong, but I do not think that since leaving the Championship, we've spent that much on new players. As an example, I've heard it said that Peter Clarke over three years cost us nigh on £1million. Now that's a lot of money, but look at this from another perspective.

We signed him on a three year deal. Presumably, the wages would have been the same throughout the deal, or even gone up over time. We signed him when we were a Championship club, and thus when we got relegated, it became a burden. However. When his contract was agreed, would he have agreed to a deal with a clause that states that should the club be relegated, your wage will reduce? Were the club almost held to ransom by virtue of our own, sudden success? Had we stipulated such a clause, how many players would have refused to sign, and then how much would Ron have been berated for the fact that we'd have had no signings?

I've said before that the successive promotions were a bad thing. No one will knock being in the Championship, but surely most will agree that with hingsight, we would have been better off having 2/3 seasons in league one, and then a promotion.

When you say thst this is not just another business- I'm sorry, but I think your heart is ruling your head. It is just another business. It's a business that has people with a massive interest in that unusually, isn't just a financial one.

 

[baldyian]

The company that is the football club doesn't belong to the supporters, no. However don't you agree that whilst Ron owns the company that is the club currently he is merely a temporary custodian of the club on behalf of the fans? Owners, chairmen, directors...they all come and go but the one constant are the fans. If the business goes bust we'll be the one keeping the name of Southend United going long after Ron's gone....as happened at Aldershot and in slightly different circumstances but with the same principle at Wimbledon.

Sorry, but if you really can make a direct comparison between a supermarket and a football club and apply the same logic and lack of emotion to the business dealings to both then that, IMO, is a very sad state of affairs.

Yes Libertine,

I don't disagree that we are all, in a sense, custodians of the club whether as supporters or board members or owners. The point I was making is precisely that I hope RM is dealing with the club in a business like manner as I believe that will give us the best chance of survival.

For example many appear to be advocating that the money from the consortium be taken to clear the debts and 'secure' the future of the club. I don't think anybody, apart from those directly involved, knows what the deal is so how can people be so certain that this would prove the salvation of the club when the facts are unknown?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that like it or not this is being run as a business and not just our favourite football team.

 

[chadded]

I simply don't get this - on Tuesday, Ron Martin was the anti-Christ, being prepared to be hung out to dry.....fast forward 24 hours and suddenly the Trust are the biggest villains this side of Gulch Creek.

WTF is the matter with some of you? If you actually bothered to attend the Trust AGMs - that is, if you were minded to join in the first place - then you'd have access to the accounts. There's nothing secret about it at all but personally, I just don't see the need to publicise it all over the internet.

The bucket collection was carried out because a majority of the committee (democratic decision) wanted to do it, and the overwhelming indications from supporters of both SUFC and other clubs was that they wanted it done.

I may be out of line here but I'm fed up with the barrage of criticism, the statements - do you not think for one moment that they were written without the advice from people with the relevant experience in these situations? Of course they weren't, the tone and content was exactly what we were advised to use.

So just back off, stop criticising and get back to discussing whose back doors you want to bash and other more typical Zone stuff. I'm so bloody angry with some of you it's not true.

I almost don't want to reply because it's almost like I've got something personal against you, which I don't, but-

I think you will find that from my perspective, and I'd say there are a few on this thread that agree, RM wasn't the anti christ, and that the 'criticism' of the trust was raised from the moment Scriv posted the emails between RM and the trust.

Why be angry? We're all entitled to our opinions, and both sides on here have stated them. Deep down I'm sure we all agree that we want the best for SUFC, and that's what's important.

 

[A Century United]

I almost don't want to reply because it's almost like I've got something personal against you, which I don't, but-

I think you will find that from my perspective, and I'd say there are a few on this thread that agree, RM wasn't the anti christ, and that the 'criticism' of the trust was raised from the moment Scriv posted the emails between RM and the trust.

Why be angry? We're all entitled to our opinions, and both sides on here have stated them. Deep down I'm sure we all agree that we want the best for SUFC, and that's what's important.

Thanks Chadded, well put.

Kay, it has been made pretty clear that some of us were unhappy with the tone of the Trust statements. Not with you, any other particular individual, or the Trust as a body. We felt that the statements were unhelpful, stirred up emotions that were already running understandably very high, and should have been more measured. I for one made this point right from the start. This is feedback, and whether you agree with the comments or it or not it is an appropriate thing to do after an event like this to see if any lessons need to be, or can be, learnt from this. You are free to disagree as ever, but why bring this high level of emotion into it?

 

[Jam_Man]

I think you will find that from my perspective, and I'd say there are a few on this thread that agree, RM wasn't the anti christ, and that the 'criticism' of the trust was raised from the moment Scriv posted the emails between RM and the trust.
.

I certainly wasnt anti RM, but most were and a lot of RM supporters were very critical, and thats fair enough.

I didnt criticise at the time because things were bad enough but i thought the Trust statemens werent helpful and more becoming of a petulant child and the collection was a knee jerk reaction and pointless. It wouldnt save the club and if money was truly needed then it could easily have been collected later.

I agree with Chadded that the Trust to me seemed overly negative and aggressive and whilst I appreciate what they are there for and the efforts made I personally think they went about things the wrong way and I wasnt impressed.

Thats just my opinion anyway.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Everyone is entitled to opinions, but as always, whether it's match analysis or anything - it's always a scapegoat being sought. I'm not taking things personally Chadded, but just don't see why people are blaming the Trust for anything at all here, and I know you weren't one of those berating Ron, but others were.

I can't remove the post now, others have quoted it, they're how I see things, from my perspective.

 

[A Century United]

Everyone is entitled to opinions, but as always, whether it's match analysis or anything - it's always a scapegoat being sought. I'm not taking things personally, but just don't see why people are blaming the Trust for anything at all here.

I can't remove the post now, others have quoted it, they're how I see things, from my perspective.

No it's not Kay. A scapegoat is sought after the event. This was picked up on from the first statement. And where is blame being apportioned? This has so far anyway been reasonable, unemotive criticism which you are free to agree or disagree with - if there is never feedback then there is never the opportunity to learn.