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Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
15,286
Location
Rayleigh
Dead and buried by Wolves last week, we raise ourselves to play the in-form Southampton. One exceptional performance later and many of us start to question the fast-gathering-pace belief that relegation for our beloved team is nothing short of a certainty.

So, can we do it?
Well, of course we can.

Is it likely?
No, but there is still hope.


Why we have absolutely no reason to believe we can stay up
==========================================

Even as one of the most optimistic, blue-tint glasses wearing, ever-hopeful Shrimpers you'll meet - and despite the hugely uplifting events of Saturday - the facts of the matter make pretty grim reading.

In 2003/2004, the Gills survived with 51 points (with a goal difference of -19) while Walsall, Bradford and the MK Dons went down with 51 (-20), 36 (-31) and 29 (-48).

In 2004/2005, Crewe survived with 50 points (with a GD of -20) while the Gills, Forest and Rotherham went down with 50 (-21), 44 (-24) and 29 (-34) respectively.

In 2005/2006, Derby and QPR survived with 50 points (and GDs of -14/-15) while Crewe, MIllwall and Brighton met relegation with 42 (-29), 40 (-27) and 38 (-32) respectively.

So, 50-51 points seems to be the very least we need to achieve.

While we're not quite half-way through the season, we're pretty close to being so. 22 played and 24 left to play.

With just 15 points in the bag, we're pretty much certain to need another 35 and that's some pretty serious form needed. Look how well Col******r United have done so far this season and then recognise that survival for us means matching that form and perhaps slipping in at least one extra victory!

So far, we've achieved an average of 0.68 points in each of the first 22 games. To survive, we'll need to start picking up an average of 1.67 until the end of the season. To give you some idea of what that means, look at Stoke who currently occupy 5th place in the table with 37 points to our 15.

At least we can say we beat them!!

If you look at the facts folks, we are out of here...


Why we might still hold on to that small piece of hope
=====================================

Someone mentioned this morning the parallel with 1992 and the arrival of a certain Mr. Collymore. This tells us simply that whatever the facts might say, hope is what this game is all about. Not only CAN we go on to survive from this position, but we've done it before.

Accepting then that we CAN still do it, what else is there that you might reasonably consider to be in our favour?

Well the first thing is attitude.
We saw it on Saturday and we might be fortunate to see it continue through to the end of the season. Rain-induced heart-to-hearts or a simply a turn in luck which saw Eastwood's fine strike go inside the post rather than outside, the team seem finally to have recognised that each and every game we play is a Cup Final. Long may this continue, especially towards the end of the season while any number of teams we play start to think about their summer holidays.

The second thing is the support.
There can be no doubt that things have been a little dark around Roots Hall for some time. 17 games without a win can do that. Sometimes the support needs to be re-ignited. Saturday may have been the spark.

Thirdly, the run of games themselves.
In my mind, the second half of the season is going to be considerably "easier" than the first half. Forget the big teams and just think about our fellow strugglers for a minute. Of the teams around us, we've only had the opporunity to play Hull at home while we been away at Palace, at QPR, at Leicester City, at Leeds and at Barnsley. Win these home games against our fellow strugglers and we're most certainly back in the game!

Fourthly, we've signed up McCormack.
What an impact this man can make to our season. How long have we bemoaned the absence of someone like him, even to the extent of looking longingly backwards to the likes of Bentley. The lunging tackles that frighten the opposition and fire-up our team were crucial to our victory on Saturday. Can anyone name a player you'd prefer to have alongside you in a relegation battle?



All in all, my expectation is that we'll be relegated but for now at least, there appears to be some hope.

All of that said, losing to Luton on Friday spells the end for me.
It's that tight.

Friday is a must, must win game!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (South Bank Hank @ Dec. 11 2006,10:02)]Dead and buried by Wolves last week, we raise ourselves to play the in-form Southampton. One exceptional performance later and many of us start to question the fast-gathering-pace belief that relegation for our beloved team is nothing short of a certainty.

So, can we do it?
Well, of course we can.

Is it likely?
No, but there is still hope.


Why we have absolutely no reason to believe we can stay up
==========================================

Even as one of the most optimistic, blue-tint glasses wearing, ever-hopeful Shrimpers you'll meet - and despite the hugely uplifting events of Saturday - the facts of the matter make pretty grim reading.

In 2003/2004, the Gills survived with 51 points (with a goal difference of -19) while Walsall, Bradford and the MK Dons went down with 51 (-20), 36 (-31) and 29 (-48).

In 2004/2005, Crewe survived with 50 points (with a GD of -20) while the Gills, Forest and Rotherham went down with 50 (-21), 44 (-24) and 29 (-34) respectively.

In 2005/2006, Derby and QPR survived with 50 points (and GDs of -14/-15) while Crewe, MIllwall and Brighton met relegation with 42 (-29), 40 (-27) and 38 (-32) respectively.

So, 50-51 points seems to be the very least we need to achieve.

While we're not quite half-way through the season, we're pretty close to being so. 22 played and 24 left to play.

With just 15 points in the bag, we're pretty much certain to need another 35 and that's some pretty serious form needed. Look how well Col******r United have done so far this season and then recognise that survival for us means matching that form and perhaps slipping in at least one extra victory!

So far, we've achieved an average of 0.68 points in each of the first 22 games. To survive, we'll need to start picking up an average of 1.67 until the end of the season. To give you some idea of what that means, look at Stoke who currently occupy 5th place in the table with 37 points to our 15.

At least we can say we beat them!!

If you look at the facts folks, we are out of here...


Why we might still hold on to that small piece of hope
=====================================

Someone mentioned this morning the parallel with 1992 and the arrival of a certain Mr. Collymore. This tells us simply that whatever the facts might say, hope is what this game is all about. Not only CAN we go on to survive from this position, but we've done it before.

Accepting then that we CAN still do it, what else is there that you might reasonably consider to be in our favour?

Well the first thing is attitude.
We saw it on Saturday and we might be fortunate to see it continue through to the end of the season. Rain-induced heart-to-hearts or a simply a turn in luck which saw the Gower's fine strike go inside the post rather than outside, the team seem finally to have recognised that each and every game we play is a Cup Final. Long may this continue, especially towards the end of the season while any number of teams we play start to think about their summer holidays.

The second thing is the support.
There can be no doubt that things have been a little dark around Roots Hall for some time. 17 games without a win can do that. Sometimes the support needs to be re-ignited. Saturday may have been the spark.

Thirdly, the run of games themselves.
In my mind, the second half of the season is going to be considerably "easier" than the first half. Forget the big teams and just think about our fellow strugglers for a minute. Of the teams around us, we've only had the opporunity to play Hull at home while we been away at Palace, at QPR, at Leicester City, at Leeds and at Barnsley. Win these home games against our fellow strugglers and we're most certainly back in the game!

Fourthly, we've signed up McCormack.
What an impact this man can make to our season. How long have we bemoaned the absence of someone like him, even to the extent of looking longingly backwards to the likes of Bentley. The lunging tackles that frighten the opposition and fire-up our team were crucial to our victory on Saturday. Can anyone name a player you'd prefer to have alongside you in a relegation battle?



All in all, my expectation is that we'll be relegated but for now at least, there appears to be some hope.

All of that said, losing to Luton on Friday spells the end for me.
It's that tight.

Friday is a must, must win game!
I think that post covered just about every argument on both sides of the fence. I would say that you are right in saying that relegation does appear to be the more likely outcome but after our success against Southampton on Saturday things are suddenly looking up.

The arguments for survival are very true in that we do seem to have an easier run of games in the second half of the season. We need to turn Roots Hall into a fortress and if we beat everyone around us when they visit us at home then we definately have a chance in survival. But from now on there can be no silly mistakes. The players must play their hearts out and each game must be a cup final. I also think you are right in saying Luton is a must win game becuase we need to show that we can string wins together not just pull the odd one out of the bag.

I also think Macormack is a great signing. I must say things are looking a damn sight better than they were say 3 weeks ago. We beat an in form Southampton and we beat a Manchester United team with 10 internationals so there is absolutely no reason why we cannot beat every team at home in our league.
 
I'm still trying to get my head round what changed on Saturday, without exception they all seemed up for it.
If they can remain that way no reason at all why we cant stay in this league.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (South Bank Hank @ Dec. 11 2006,11:02)]Dead and buried by Wolves last week, we raise ourselves to play the in-form Southampton. One exceptional performance later and many of us start to question the fast-gathering-pace belief that relegation for our beloved team is nothing short of a certainty.

So, can we do it?
Well, of course we can.

Is it likely?
No, but there is still hope.


Why we have absolutely no reason to believe we can stay up
==========================================

Even as one of the most optimistic, blue-tint glasses wearing, ever-hopeful Shrimpers you'll meet - and despite the hugely uplifting events of Saturday - the facts of the matter make pretty grim reading.

In 2003/2004, the Gills survived with 51 points (with a goal difference of -19) while Walsall, Bradford and the MK Dons went down with 51 (-20), 36 (-31) and 29 (-48).

In 2004/2005, Crewe survived with 50 points (with a GD of -20) while the Gills, Forest and Rotherham went down with 50 (-21), 44 (-24) and 29 (-34) respectively.

In 2005/2006, Derby and QPR survived with 50 points (and GDs of -14/-15) while Crewe, MIllwall and Brighton met relegation with 42 (-29), 40 (-27) and 38 (-32) respectively.

So, 50-51 points seems to be the very least we need to achieve.

While we're not quite half-way through the season, we're pretty close to being so. 22 played and 24 left to play.

With just 15 points in the bag, we're pretty much certain to need another 35 and that's some pretty serious form needed. Look how well Col******r United have done so far this season and then recognise that survival for us means matching that form and perhaps slipping in at least one extra victory!

So far, we've achieved an average of 0.68 points in each of the first 22 games. To survive, we'll need to start picking up an average of 1.67 until the end of the season. To give you some idea of what that means, look at Stoke who currently occupy 5th place in the table with 37 points to our 15.

At least we can say we beat them!!

If you look at the facts folks, we are out of here...


Why we might still hold on to that small piece of hope
=====================================

Someone mentioned this morning the parallel with 1992 and the arrival of a certain Mr. Collymore. This tells us simply that whatever the facts might say, hope is what this game is all about. Not only CAN we go on to survive from this position, but we've done it before.

Accepting then that we CAN still do it, what else is there that you might reasonably consider to be in our favour?

Well the first thing is attitude.
We saw it on Saturday and we might be fortunate to see it continue through to the end of the season. Rain-induced heart-to-hearts or a simply a turn in luck which saw the Gower's fine strike go inside the post rather than outside, the team seem finally to have recognised that each and every game we play is a Cup Final. Long may this continue, especially towards the end of the season while any number of teams we play start to think about their summer holidays.

The second thing is the support.
There can be no doubt that things have been a little dark around Roots Hall for some time. 17 games without a win can do that. Sometimes the support needs to be re-ignited. Saturday may have been the spark.

Thirdly, the run of games themselves.
In my mind, the second half of the season is going to be considerably "easier" than the first half. Forget the big teams and just think about our fellow strugglers for a minute. Of the teams around us, we've only had the opporunity to play Hull at home while we been away at Palace, at QPR, at Leicester City, at Leeds and at Barnsley. Win these home games against our fellow strugglers and we're most certainly back in the game!

Fourthly, we've signed up McCormack.
What an impact this man can make to our season. How long have we bemoaned the absence of someone like him, even to the extent of looking longingly backwards to the likes of Bentley. The lunging tackles that frighten the opposition and fire-up our team were crucial to our victory on Saturday. Can anyone name a player you'd prefer to have alongside you in a relegation battle?



All in all, my expectation is that we'll be relegated but for now at least, there appears to be some hope.

All of that said, losing to Luton on Friday spells the end for me.
It's that tight.

Friday is a must, must win game!
Fact is that we're only 8 points from safety. So long as we keep within reach, we have an outside chance. I do believe we're more than likely doomed, but this little voice keeps me hoping... albeit cautiously.
 
Just keep the faith people and get behind the team and I think we can do it!
 
Nice post SBH.

Unfortunately just to be the bringer of doom and gloom one huge factor missing from your reasoning is Mr Eastwood.

If he leaves then thats a huge factor on our chances.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Dec. 11 2006,11:52)]Nice post SBH.

Unfortunately just to be the bringer of doom and gloom one huge factor missing from your reasoning is Mr Eastwood.

If he leaves then thats a huge factor on our chances.
Don't put too much emphasis on us staying up with Freddy not moving in January.

He scored a super goal on Saturday and played pretty well, but he hasnt had a great season so far, and hasnt really done that much for us to be thinking if he goes we are doomed.

For what its worth, selling Freddy in January might, and I emphasise the word might, just be a blessing in disguise..... As long as we invest the money wisely.

We had 11 commited players out there on Saturday, and even Tilly was seen prowling the edge of his technical area once or twice (once or twice more than the previous years I may add
smile.gif
) and if they can not only keep up that level of commitment but also lose the 'fear factor' when it comes to passing the ball like we know we are capable of, then you never know what could happen!
 
A great post SBH, but I don't think we should think too far ahead as to what we need to do to survive - it's just too frightening.

Psychologially, I believe it is better to break each part of a huge task into smaller 'achievable' tasks. Therefore the first thing we must do is get off the bottom of the table. We can do that this Friday and that is all the team should be thinking about at this stage. If we manage that, then and only then should we think about the next bit i.e. to overtake Leeds.
 
In 1992 we'd had one season of division two football under our belt. In fact the team was largely the same team who had flirted with automatic promotion the previous season. Despite that, Colin Murphy was leading us to relegation despite Stanley's best efforts to keep us in touch with safety. The key to our survival then was sacking the clueless Murphy and appointing Judas.

I believe we would need the short-term boost of installing a new manager to stay up, but I don't think a short-term fix is worth paying a long-term price.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Joolz @ Dec. 11 2006,13:22)]A great post SBH, but I don't think we should think too far ahead as to what we need to do to survive - it's just too frightening.

Psychologially, I believe it is better to break each part of a huge task into smaller 'achievable' tasks. Therefore the first thing we must do is get off the bottom of the table. We can do that this Friday and that is all the team should be thinking about at this stage. If we manage that, then and only then should we think about the next bit i.e. to overtake Leeds.
Hmm, thanks Joolz. I guess I'm trying to decide for myself whether to keep hoping that we will escape relegation or just resign myself to it and enjoy the rest of the season! Hope can be a wonderful thing, but it can equally be a long drawn-out torture.


Bottom line is WE NEED TO BEAT LUTON!
Then we need to take something from the game against Brum...
Then something against Norwich and Coventry...
Then...
Then...

And all the while, as Jam_Man suggests, we need to hope that the Freddy Eastwood "issue" plays out in our favour - whatever that means.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ Dec. 11 2006,13:27)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Dec. 11 2006,13:24)]the clueless Murphy
Indeed. The clueless Murphy who was appointed to the job, as was Dick Bate, on the basis that Howard Wilkinson recommended to the equally clueless John Adams that they be given the job.
There's a connective theme there somewhere but I just can't see it.....
biggrin.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (South Bank Hank @ Dec. 11 2006,13:37)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Joolz @ Dec. 11 2006,13:22)]A great post SBH, but I don't think we should think too far ahead as to what we need to do to survive - it's just too frightening.

Psychologially, I believe it is better to break each part of a huge task into smaller 'achievable' tasks. Therefore the first thing we must do is get off the bottom of the table. We can do that this Friday and that is all the team should be thinking about at this stage. If we manage that, then and only then should we think about the next bit i.e. to overtake Leeds.
Hmm, thanks Joolz. I guess I'm trying to decide for myself whether to keep hoping that we will escape relegation or just resign myself to it and enjoy the rest of the season! Hope can be a wonderful thing, but it can equally be a long drawn-out torture.


Bottom line is WE NEED TO BEAT LUTON!
Then we need to take something from the game against Brum...
Then something against Norwich and Coventry...
Then...
Then...

And all the while, as Jam_Man suggests, we need to hope that the Freddy Eastwood "issue" plays out in our favour - whatever that means.
Hope is indeed a strange and illogical emotion. I've been saying that we are down every game since Hull, and here we are after just one more victory and I'm again begining to wonder, what if....?
smile.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Joolz @ Dec. 11 2006,13:22)]Psychologially, I believe it is better to break each part of a huge task into smaller 'achievable' tasks.
May try that. 'Get up and go to work' always seems such a huge task. Maybe tomorrow I'll start with 'lift head off pillow' and take it from there. Cheers
smile.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MrB @ Dec. 11 2006,13:52)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Joolz @ Dec. 11 2006,13:22)]Psychologially, I believe it is better to break each part of a huge task into smaller 'achievable' tasks.
May try that. 'Get up and go to work' always seems such a huge task.  Maybe tomorrow I'll start with 'lift head off pillow' and take it from there. Cheers  
smile.gif
I like that. I feel I may have introduced a new ethos here. I'll call it the 'when everything is lost, just bury your head in the sand and don't think too much ethos'.
smile.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (South Bank Hank @ Dec. 11 2006,10:02)]Dead and buried by Wolves last week, we raise ourselves to play the in-form Southampton. One exceptional performance later and many of us start to question the fast-gathering-pace belief that relegation for our beloved team is nothing short of a certainty.

So, can we do it?
Well, of course we can.

Is it likely?
No, but there is still hope.


Why we have absolutely no reason to believe we can stay up
==========================================

Even as one of the most optimistic, blue-tint glasses wearing, ever-hopeful Shrimpers you'll meet - and despite the hugely uplifting events of Saturday - the facts of the matter make pretty grim reading.

In 2003/2004, the Gills survived with 51 points (with a goal difference of -19) while Walsall, Bradford and the MK Dons went down with 51 (-20), 36 (-31) and 29 (-48).

In 2004/2005, Crewe survived with 50 points (with a GD of -20) while the Gills, Forest and Rotherham went down with 50 (-21), 44 (-24) and 29 (-34) respectively.

In 2005/2006, Derby and QPR survived with 50 points (and GDs of -14/-15) while Crewe, MIllwall and Brighton met relegation with 42 (-29), 40 (-27) and 38 (-32) respectively.

So, 50-51 points seems to be the very least we need to achieve.

While we're not quite half-way through the season, we're pretty close to being so. 22 played and 24 left to play.

With just 15 points in the bag, we're pretty much certain to need another 35 and that's some pretty serious form needed. Look how well Col******r United have done so far this season and then recognise that survival for us means matching that form and perhaps slipping in at least one extra victory!

So far, we've achieved an average of 0.68 points in each of the first 22 games. To survive, we'll need to start picking up an average of 1.67 until the end of the season. To give you some idea of what that means, look at Stoke who currently occupy 5th place in the table with 37 points to our 15.

At least we can say we beat them!!

If you look at the facts folks, we are out of here...


Why we might still hold on to that small piece of hope
=====================================

Someone mentioned this morning the parallel with 1992 and the arrival of a certain Mr. Collymore. This tells us simply that whatever the facts might say, hope is what this game is all about. Not only CAN we go on to survive from this position, but we've done it before.

Accepting then that we CAN still do it, what else is there that you might reasonably consider to be in our favour?

Well the first thing is attitude.
We saw it on Saturday and we might be fortunate to see it continue through to the end of the season. Rain-induced heart-to-hearts or a simply a turn in luck which saw Eastwood's fine strike go inside the post rather than outside, the team seem finally to have recognised that each and every game we play is a Cup Final. Long may this continue, especially towards the end of the season while any number of teams we play start to think about their summer holidays.

The second thing is the support.
There can be no doubt that things have been a little dark around Roots Hall for some time. 17 games without a win can do that. Sometimes the support needs to be re-ignited. Saturday may have been the spark.

Thirdly, the run of games themselves.
In my mind, the second half of the season is going to be considerably "easier" than the first half. Forget the big teams and just think about our fellow strugglers for a minute. Of the teams around us, we've only had the opporunity to play Hull at home while we been away at Palace, at QPR, at Leicester City, at Leeds and at Barnsley. Win these home games against our fellow strugglers and we're most certainly back in the game!

Fourthly, we've signed up McCormack.
What an impact this man can make to our season. How long have we bemoaned the absence of someone like him, even to the extent of looking longingly backwards to the likes of Bentley. The lunging tackles that frighten the opposition and fire-up our team were crucial to our victory on Saturday. Can anyone name a player you'd prefer to have alongside you in a relegation battle?



All in all, my expectation is that we'll be relegated but for now at least, there appears to be some hope.

All of that said, losing to Luton on Friday spells the end for me.
It's that tight.

Friday is a must, must win game!
although i agree with you that we need around 50 points to survive as thats what it usually takes, we must remember that all we need to do to survive is, from now to the end of the season is to gain 3 points more than hull, 6 more than leeds, and 9 more than barnsley. however i think leeds will get out of it but we only need to gain 10 more points than qpr or 11 more than luton and the fact that we still have to play luton twice means we can reduce that gap to 5 if we beat them twice. we are far from relegated yet. there is only 11 points seperating us from ipswich in 16th place and with good form we could achieve that. that 11 points is only the difference of winning 4 more games than all the teams above us do.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Alex @ Dec. 11 2006,18:12)]that 11 points is only the difference of winning 4 more games than all the teams above us do.
Sounds so simple, until you realise in the first half of the season we have only won 3, yet all we need do is win 4 more than all the teams above us.

So if they all win 5 games we need to win 9, three times more than we have done so already.

Im hoping Saturday will be a springboard, but lets not underestimate the size of the task at hand.

Its so important that we get wins now, especially against the teams in the bottom 3rd.
 
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