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Sol Campbell - overlooked on England captaincy on racial grounds?

Yes all good points. I think good captains make good coaches (and pundits! c.f. G. Neville) and good coaches make good managers. The fact that there's only a handful of black captains in the 92 is alarming and one things that could be highlighted/influenced via clubs/managers without having to do something drastic like a Rooney Rule.

Not entirely sure I'm with you there. I'd actually argue that in modern football captains are largely defunct, but that's another argument entirely.

Neville's a good coach because of his studious work ethic. He was never that naturally talented at the game but grafted to make sure his technique stood up under pressure and he was meticulous in his approach to compensate for that 1, 2 or 10% he'd give away to gifted opponents. That makes him a good coach, he knows what good technique is and he's more than prepared for the long training ground stints to perfect it. Someone like Shearer, on the other hand, was undoubtedly a good captain for both Newcastle and England, but is a truly terrible coach. Roy Keane too. Supposed to have been one of the most keenly analytical coaches to have passed through the UEFA coaching licences, but he simply cannot accept anything less than perfection, which is why it hasn't worked out for him.

Whilst I definitely acknowledge something should be done to encourage more black coaches and managers, I'm not entirely sure what that is. Would a Rooney Rule remedy that? I don't think so.
 
Are there any countries doing this better than we are - does say Spain have a greater number of black coaches, that we could learn lessons from?

It's also not just about lack of appointment, the barriers tend to be with the individuals themselves, chairman can't appoint those that don't apply.
 
Are there any countries doing this better than we are - does say Spain have a greater number of black coaches, that we could learn lessons from?

Black head coaches have been fairly infrequent in Spain too - Paco Maturana and Frank Rijkaard leap immediately to mind, but not many others. The ethnic mix in Spain is rather different though in that their immigrant population tends to be more from South America than the West Indies or sub-Saharan Africa, so the number of black Spanish players is fairly low.

So in that respect, I guess we'd look more at France and the Netherlands for comparison. Both these countries have certainly had a huge number of top black footballers and Ruud Gullit of course captained the Netherlands to their only international trophy. Any ideas re coaches anyone?
 
Not entirely sure I'm with you there. I'd actually argue that in modern football captains are largely defunct, but that's another argument entirely.

Neville's a good coach because of his studious work ethic. He was never that naturally talented at the game but grafted to make sure his technique stood up under pressure and he was meticulous in his approach to compensate for that 1, 2 or 10% he'd give away to gifted opponents. That makes him a good coach, he knows what good technique is and he's more than prepared for the long training ground stints to perfect it. Someone like Shearer, on the other hand, was undoubtedly a good captain for both Newcastle and England, but is a truly terrible coach. Roy Keane too. Supposed to have been one of the most keenly analytical coaches to have passed through the UEFA coaching licences, but he simply cannot accept anything less than perfection, which is why it hasn't worked out for him.

Whilst I definitely acknowledge something should be done to encourage more black coaches and managers, I'm not entirely sure what that is. Would a Rooney Rule remedy that? I don't think so.

Yeah good stuff, I was probably been far too simplistic. My general point is that in general people who are 'good for the game' tend to show their qualities during their playing career (and not all good managers/coaches have to have been good players) and I reckon many will have been captains, due to being good leaders and understanding the perspective of both players and management.

With someone like Keane, my guess is that he was well respected by his teammates and led by example, but he obviously didn't deal particularly well with SAF, McCarthy et al. I don't think anyone really expected him to become a top top manager (who knows what might happen in the future now, he seems to be calming down now that he has Chiles as a human punch-bag).

Going back to my original point - looking at NFL, it's clear that barriers such as 'black people can't coach', 'black players can't throw the ball' are starting to be broken down little by little.

OBL might think that everything is perfect and there's not a problem, but do people genuinely believe that 2/92 black managers reflects a pure meritocracy?
 
When you look in Italy and only ever two black managers,it shows its world wide, be interested to see how many ex Black footballers apply to be managers in our league

When you think of Les Ferdinand working along side the Spurs manager Sherwood wonder if he has applied for any in the lower leagues or is happy being a No 2 as many are,helping the team but not in the spotlight

Good to see Cris Powell gets an extension of is contract at Charlton,who have had a rough season in the league
 
Problem is though, if you're not good enough for the job, then you're not good enough for it - black, white, Asian, whatever. Maybe former players of ethnic persuasions just aren't so interested in managing at the higher levels? Be interested to know the percentage ratios of black to white players across the leagues and comparing that to the managerial ratios.

Some people are just content to have made their money out of the game and then either go on to do something different or just to coach Sunday league type teams.
 
Yeah good stuff, I was probably been far too simplistic. My general point is that in general people who are 'good for the game' tend to show their qualities during their playing career (and not all good managers/coaches have to have been good players) and I reckon many will have been captains, due to being good leaders and understanding the perspective of both players and management.

With someone like Keane, my guess is that he was well respected by his teammates and led by example, but he obviously didn't deal particularly well with SAF, McCarthy et al. I don't think anyone really expected him to become a top top manager (who knows what might happen in the future now, he seems to be calming down now that he has Chiles as a human punch-bag).

Going back to my original point - looking at NFL, it's clear that barriers such as 'black people can't coach', 'black players can't throw the ball' are starting to be broken down little by little.

OBL might think that everything is perfect and there's not a problem, but do people genuinely believe that 2/92 black managers reflects a pure meritocracy?

Yeah I'd agree that it's fairly easy to spot the ones that will stay in football after playing. Both Nevilles were always going to, as were the likes of Southgate and Pearce (an abundance of defenders there, perhaps due to their need to read the game well?). The one that's always surprised me is Beckham... Utterly loves 'The Game' and would have the backing of the entire country to succeed.

I think if you're looking to encourage more black coaches (or just coaches in general, really) then you have to look outside the professional ranks. There are thousands of coaches eager to professionalise themselves and would be happy to do providing they were given the support to do so. At the moment there's far too many barriers that prevent coaches from getting qualifications above UEFA B standard, and these should be brought down. By all means maintain the high standards when it comes to passing rates (one of the great fallacies in European football is the number of Spanish coaches, it's far easier to get on high-level courses and they're 60% theory, which obviously doesn't help promote elite coaching methods), but make these courses more accessible and you might find a few diamonds in the rough.
 
Sol campbell moaning and bitching and blaming others......wonder why he wasn't considered as leader material???? Ridiculous statement from a man looking to blame others for his short comings. I tell you why you werent made captain sol......you are quite clearly a knob head and I wouldnt follow you into asda let alone a big game of football in a hostile environment.
 
How do we know? There aren't many black managers, captains or influential people in the FA. It's pretty clear that some barriers need to be torn down.
You are right that for whatever reason there are not many black managers etc in football,but i just honestly do not think that Venables ,Hoddle,Keegan. and Ericksen did not make him a full time England captain because he is black
 
Campbell really displayed the leadership qualities when he was captain of spurs and let his contract run down to join their arch rivals. He always seemed self centred and conceited and not captain material
 
Campbell really displayed the leadership qualities when he was captain of spurs and let his contract run down to join their arch rivals. He always seemed self centred and conceited and not captain material

And he voted Brexit.
 
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