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Sometimes Some England "Fans" Really do Drag Our Name Through the Dirt

Don't think it's quiet that bad but your point is taken,what town do you live in surely not that bad?
Eastbourne. Full of old people like myself according to popular wisdom but definitely uncomfortable in the town centre once the shops close and darkness falls. Don't recall seeing one single police officer on foot in the town at any time in the past 12 months yet even in daylight many examples of anti social behavoiur which is almost as though it's an accepted part of normal life nowadays.
 
Very true, but then few countries in Europe display that obnoxious air of superiority over others that seems endemic among our ruling classes. And to come down to basics and practicalities, England has shown that is not competent nor capable of running an international tournament in accordance with the norm. Ludicrous drinking laws, not enough police nor properly trained stewards and at the top of the FA incompetent management.

I’m not sure how you can mention obnoxiousness and leave out the Russians, French & the Italians… two of which have held international football tournaments quite recently. At least Putin had the sense to pay off his hooligans in 2018.

As for not being capable of safely hosting a tournament, we held 8 games at Wembley in the past four weeks. All but one of those went off without a hitch. We’ve also held Olympic Games, Commonwealth Games, Champions League finals in the not too distant past, again all passing without any issue.

The scenes we saw on Sunday weren’t great, and they certainly embarrassed us on the world stage. But were they worse than France 2016, when Russian militia’s hunted opposition fans through the streets of Marseille and St. Etienne? I don’t recall too many French people suggesting that they should never host a tournament again. And it’s not as if this was a one off for them either. Remember ‘98?

Absolutely, questions need to be asked about Sunday night. The fact that the storming of Wembley was “planned” (openly spoken about) on social media, but seemingly ignored is a failure of security and the duty of care owed to those who were there. But this is where lessons need to be learned, and it’s not something that can’t be dealt with.
 
None of this would have happened if Denmark had got to the final instead of England. For years I’ve thought refs had been under instructions to make sure that England went out of the competition early to avoid the chaos it would cause if we got to a final.

Sadly everyone, especially the media, determine any one who doesn’t win medals or trophy’s failures. What ever happened to it’s the taking part that counts not the winning .
 
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I see one post inferring that boorish, loutish, aggressive, antagonistic, disrespectful, racist and violent behaviour can simply be labelled under "high spirits". Presumably these activities merely demonstrate a great loyalty and respect for our own country, as well as "'aving a bit of a larf", which people from other nations will admire greatly.

If that is your view, I'm afraid you need to realise that the dinosaurs died out a long time ago and that your caveman mentality failed, apparently, to notice it. These louts are not interested in the game of football, however loud they shout, - they are interested only in giving themself a feeling of self-importance and self-worth.....a need to feel that others are saying "Look at him", knowing that otherwise no-one would give a toss about them. They are terrified of realising how insignificant they are and too ignorant to realise/care that others from their own nation and other nations view them as morons. These are the people who took the pride out of Pride of Lions.

So we end with a group of people desperate for someone to "give a toss" about them only to find that the only ones who give a toss are all the other ****ers who are desperate for someone to give a toss about them. The definitive bunch of tossers.

Why the media continue to refer to them as supporters/fans/followers is beyond me - the collective term is, I would suggest "failures". (The Beeb won't use "tossers")

PS could it be that similar such "high spirits" was what led to a bunch of vicious cowardly thugs, masquerading as Southend "fans" effectively kicking Simon Dobbin to death. Or did it all start off with "Just avin' a larf" mate"!!

I see Anton Ferdinand is suggesting we should hold of on the 2030 World Cup until these issues are sorted - we need to act a damn sight quicker than that with the 2022 World Cup up next in 18 months.

Me? Ranting? Maybe a bit.
 
I see one post inferring that boorish, loutish, aggressive, antagonistic, disrespectful, racist and violent behaviour can simply be labelled under "high spirits". Presumably these activities merely demonstrate a great loyalty and respect for our own country, as well as "'aving a bit of a larf", which people from other nations will admire greatly.

If that is your view, I'm afraid you need to realise that the dinosaurs died out a long time ago and that your caveman mentality failed, apparently, to notice it. These louts are not interested in the game of football, however loud they shout, - they are interested only in giving themself a feeling of self-importance and self-worth.....a need to feel that others are saying "Look at him", knowing that otherwise no-one would give a toss about them. They are terrified of realising how insignificant they are and too ignorant to realise/care that others from their own nation and other nations view them as morons. These are the people who took the pride out of Pride of Lions.

So we end with a group of people desperate for someone to "give a toss" about them only to find that the only ones who give a toss are all the other ****ers who are desperate for someone to give a toss about them. The definitive bunch of tossers.

Why the media continue to refer to them as supporters/fans/followers is beyond me - the collective term is, I would suggest "failures". (The Beeb won't use "tossers")

PS could it be that similar such "high spirits" was what led to a bunch of vicious cowardly thugs, masquerading as Southend "fans" effectively kicking Simon Dobbin to death. Or did it all start off with "Just avin' a larf" mate"!!

I see Anton Ferdinand is suggesting we should hold of on the 2030 World Cup until these issues are sorted - we need to act a damn sight quicker than that with the 2022 World Cup up next in 18 months.

Me? Ranting? Maybe a bit.
Yeah that was me who talked about 'high spirits' and I stand by that. I'm very happy with my life and my own self-worth and you need to stop making sweeping generalizations about people who don't hold the same views that you do. I am a passionate supporter of Southend United and of England and it's not up to you to determine whether I'm worthy of that title, nor is it up to a no mark like Anton Ferdinand.

Violence at football matches has existed for over a century and in every country where the sport is taken seriously, and it isn't going away. I've been involved in my youth and I'm not ashamed of it. I like to think that I've never gone looking for trouble but when away fans have come into our stand or our pub and kicked off, then I've helped to 'take care of them', something which the hand-wringers were probably quite pleased about as they sat there staring into their bovril or half of shandy.

I live in a country that has been plagued by racially motivated violence for well over a year and the media and 'respectable opinion' fall over themselves to justify it. 24 hours of minor violence, following months of lockdowns, economic hardship and a gut-wrenching loss in the first final in most people's lifetimes isn't a big deal in my opinion, and neither are a few harsh words on twitter or wherever. I bet Stuart Pearce wished he could have played the racism card after 1990 but it wasn't an option for him.

I don't appreciate your ranting or your insults and I don't understand why you think that making assumptions about groups of people is OK for you but not for others.
 
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Yeah that was me who talked about 'high spirits' and I stand by that. I'm very happy with my life and my own self-worth and you need to stop making sweeping generalizations about people who don't hold the same views that you do. I am a passionate supporter of Southend United and of England and it's not up to you to determine whether I'm worthy of that title, nor is it up to a no mark like Anton Ferdinand.

Violence at football matches has existed for over a century and in every country where the sport is taken seriously, and it isn't going away. I've been involved in my youth and I'm not ashamed of it. I like to think that I've never gone looking for trouble (a claim Mr Dobbin couldn't make) but when away fans have come into our stand or our pub and kicked off, then I've helped to 'take care of them', something which the hand-wringers were probably quite pleased about as they sat there staring into their bovril or half of shandy.

I live in a country that has been plagued by racially motivated violence for well over a year and the media and 'respectable opinion' fall over themselves to justify it. 24 hours of minor violence, following months of lockdowns, economic hardship and a gut-wrenching loss in the first final in most people's lifetimes isn't a big deal in my opinion, and neither are a few harsh words on twitter or wherever. I bet Stuart Pearce wished he could have played the racism card after 1990 but it wasn't an option for him.

I don't appreciate your ranting or your insults and I don't understand why you think that making assumptions about groups of people is OK for you but not for others.
Something tells me we're at opposite ends of the viewpoint scale, and just as you have no problem with the existence of violence and all the other facets of "high spirits", I do. I suspect that if you approached Southend United or the England team and asked them if they supported your viewpoint, they would probably have a problem with it - I stand to be corrected. If people are invading your stand/pub/manor then I don't think that has anything to do with supporting football or a team - it is simply louts wearing a football scarf/shirt/boxers looking for a fight in the knowledge that others will be happy to oblige. I recognise that I am being sexist here in inferring that it is a male driven problem and I apologise to any females that enjoy a good ruck

No family or child should feel scared or nervous about attending a game because of other's "high spirits" but many do and that's crazy, isn't it?

An attitude that says it's okay for it all to kick off because we've been in lockdown and suffered economic loss and we lost a football match feels a bit weak to me. Many tens of thousands of families, my own included, have suffered death through Covid, but I don't think many have used it as justification for those "high spirits".

As for assumptions I have no doubt that you assume that I am a right **** - feel free. You won't be the first or last. There are times I agree with you.

Unless I am sitting in a pub when a bunch of rival fans burst in, giving me the chance to thank you as you go hurtling across the tables to defend me, and all the other ****s sitting in there, I doubt our paths will cross.

So can we perhaps part agreeing on the one thing we have in common ...............we both want Southend United have a great season and bounce back up and THAT will really help to put the last miserable16 months to bed.

Please note that no racism card was played or referred to in the making of this post.
 
Something tells me we're at opposite ends of the viewpoint scale, and just as you have no problem with the existence of violence and all the other facets of "high spirits", I do. I suspect that if you approached Southend United or the England team and asked them if they supported your viewpoint, they would probably have a problem with it - I stand to be corrected. If people are invading your stand/pub/manor then I don't think that has anything to do with supporting football or a team - it is simply louts wearing a football scarf/shirt/boxers looking for a fight in the knowledge that others will be happy to oblige. I recognise that I am being sexist here in inferring that it is a male driven problem and I apologise to any females that enjoy a good ruck

No family or child should feel scared or nervous about attending a game because of other's "high spirits" but many do and that's crazy, isn't it?

An attitude that says it's okay for it all to kick off because we've been in lockdown and suffered economic loss and we lost a football match feels a bit weak to me. Many tens of thousands of families, my own included, have suffered death through Covid, but I don't think many have used it as justification for those "high spirits".

As for assumptions I have no doubt that you assume that I am a right **** - feel free. You won't be the first or last. There are times I agree with you.

Unless I am sitting in a pub when a bunch of rival fans burst in, giving me the chance to thank you as you go hurtling across the tables to defend me, and all the other ****s sitting in there, I doubt our paths will cross.

So can we perhaps part agreeing on the one thing we have in common ...............we both want Southend United have a great season and bounce back up and THAT will really help to put the last miserable16 months to bed.

Please note that no racism card was played or referred to in the making of this post.
Thank you for a reasoned response and I can heartily agree that we definitely have something in common. Cheers
 
Yeah that was me who talked about 'high spirits' and I stand by that. I'm very happy with my life and my own self-worth and you need to stop making sweeping generalizations about people who don't hold the same views that you do. I am a passionate supporter of Southend United and of England and it's not up to you to determine whether I'm worthy of that title, nor is it up to a no mark like Anton Ferdinand.

Violence at football matches has existed for over a century and in every country where the sport is taken seriously, and it isn't going away. I've been involved in my youth and I'm not ashamed of it. I like to think that I've never gone looking for trouble (a claim Mr Dobbin couldn't make) but when away fans have come into our stand or our pub and kicked off, then I've helped to 'take care of them', something which the hand-wringers were probably quite pleased about as they sat there staring into their bovril or half of shandy.

I live in a country that has been plagued by racially motivated violence for well over a year and the media and 'respectable opinion' fall over themselves to justify it. 24 hours of minor violence, following months of lockdowns, economic hardship and a gut-wrenching loss in the first final in most people's lifetimes isn't a big deal in my opinion, and neither are a few harsh words on twitter or wherever. I bet Stuart Pearce wished he could have played the racism card after 1990 but it wasn't an option for him.

I don't appreciate your ranting or your insults and I don't understand why you think that making assumptions about groups of people is OK for you but not for others.
Putting to one side you not being ashamed of your involvement in violence based around what football team someone supports, your assumption those not involved are Bovril/shandy drinkers, dragging in a man who was left brain damaged after attending a Southend match and dragging down the reputation of the club by reminding everyone that a Southend fan was jailed for the attack, your use of the concept of the ‘race card’ and playing down the impact of any negativity that is not aimed at you, the irony that you ‘don't appreciate your ranting or your insults’, I’m curious – as ‘a passionate supporter of Southend United and of England’ why do you label an ex Southend and England(U21) player a no mark?

Why is Anton Ferdinand a no mark?
 
Putting to one side you not being ashamed of your involvement in violence based around what football team someone supports, your assumption those not involved are Bovril/shandy drinkers, dragging in a man who was left brain damaged after attending a Southend match and dragging down the reputation of the club by reminding everyone that a Southend fan was jailed for the attack, your use of the concept of the ‘race card’ and playing down the impact of any negativity that is not aimed at you, the irony that you ‘don't appreciate your ranting or your insults’, I’m curious – as ‘a passionate supporter of Southend United and of England’ why do you label an ex Southend and England(U21) player a no mark?

Why is Anton Ferdinand a no mark?
Because he’s a **** player living in the shadow of his brother who’s clinging on to relevance with muh ‘social justice’.
 
Because he’s a **** player living in the shadow of his brother who’s clinging on to relevance with muh ‘social justice’.
Its his brother not him that you say is 'clinging on to relevance with muh ‘social justice’' (whatever that means) so that shouldn't effect your opinion of the ex Southend player.

Its generally accepted he was a great asset to Southend in his first season, and his legs had gone in the second. Yes he wasn't as good a player as his brother but why does that make him a ****?
 
Its his brother not him that you say is 'clinging on to relevance with muh ‘social justice’' (whatever that means) so that shouldn't effect your opinion of the ex Southend player.

Its generally accepted he was a great asset to Southend in his first season, and his legs had gone in the second. Yes he wasn't as good a player as his brother but why does that make him a ****?
He's qualified to talk about football, I'll give him that, but having one black parent doesn't give him any insight into wider societal issues that justifies the forum he's being given. As you well know, I was implying that Anton is clinging on to relevance as he can't get a sweet gig with the BBC like Rio - there's only so many affirmative action places up for grabs. He was a decent player for Southend for about 30 games in League 1 but he's hardly Graham Bressington, is he?
 
He's qualified to talk about football, I'll give him that, but having one black parent doesn't give him any insight into wider societal issues that justifies the forum he's being given. As you well know, I was implying that Anton is clinging on to relevance as he can't get a sweet gig with the BBC like Rio - there's only so many affirmative action places up for grabs. He was a decent player for Southend for about 30 games in League 1 but he's hardly Graham Bressington, is he?
He was a massively important player for Southend for the first season so seems odd that with 40 years of crap players to choose from you single out one who did well for us.

Being mixed race will obviously give him an insight that I won't have because I have 2 white parents and grew up in Benfleet. Bizarre that in this day and age anyone could not think beyond their own experience to register that.

Rio - his wife died and he was bringing up his kids in the shadow of that, he opened up and spoke about that. He didn't need to, he had the MOTD gig, sponsorship, whatever. It's valuable to many people. On a personal level during lockdown my wife and my mother-in-law were diagnosed with cancer, a male friend in his 40's committed suicide, various other degrees of things to deal with down to a double relegation. If someone in the male dominated sport of football is willing to open up and speak about what he has to deal with that is of value to others with what they have to deal with, its so much more than 'muh ‘social justice’'. If you don't see that value in it just don't watch it. Holding it against him and his brother is a bit ludicrous.
 
He was a massively important player for Southend for the first season so seems odd that with 40 years of crap players to choose from you single out one who did well for us.

Being mixed race will obviously give him an insight that I won't have because I have 2 white parents and grew up in Benfleet. Bizarre that in this day and age anyone could not think beyond their own experience to register that.

Rio - his wife died and he was bringing up his kids in the shadow of that, he opened up and spoke about that. He didn't need to, he had the MOTD gig, sponsorship, whatever. It's valuable to many people. On a personal level during lockdown my wife and my mother-in-law were diagnosed with cancer, a male friend in his 40's committed suicide, various other degrees of things to deal with down to a double relegation. If someone in the male dominated sport of football is willing to open up and speak about what he has to deal with that is of value to others with what they have to deal with, its so much more than 'muh ‘social justice’'. If you don't see that value in it just don't watch it. Holding it against him and his brother is a bit ludicrous.
I hope everyone in your family makes a full recovery.
 
I hope everyone in your family makes a full recovery.
Thanks.
I didn't tell anyone for months. Men of our age bottle things up. I don't know what my mate who killed himself was bottling up or if that impacted his decision. Rio doing documentaries when he opens up about what he has to deal with is of value, it encourages others to open up. It's not a reason to hate him or his brother.
 
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