Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 0-2 Cheltenham Town

[Stuart W]

Cast your mind back four months to the League 2 play offs. Cheltenham defeated Northampton 2-0 in the first leg with a performance and style very similar to today. Northampton looked very similar to us yesterday.

BUT four days later in the second leg Northampton blew Cheltenham away 3-0 and went on to demolish Exeter 4-0 in the final. How? By changing their style and formation and battering both their opponents with fast wingers and generally playing further forward, snapping at every ball.

This is Cheltenham manager Duff's explanation of why they lost:
"We got beaten up, no doubt about that. We didn't compete with them physically and that's the first time that's happened this season. When you don't do the basics and they do it very well.

The first 10-15 minutes I don't think we won a second ball. They scored a goal and we took a backwards step. We didn't do any part of what got us in this position and it's unfortunate we've turned that performance in on the night tonight."

We need to follow Northampton's example. Don't let the opposition settle, hustle them, out pace them. We have the fast wingers, we have a great lump of a centre forward, we have hard tackling defenders but yesterday only Demetriou and Egbri showed any toughness. Acquah needs to use his height and strength to bully defenders, Goodship needs to get in closer, Elvis also needs to use his strength more. I think MM is trying to be too clever in his tactics. Look again at what Duff said in June: "We got beaten up, no doubt about that. We didn't compete with them physically.....The first 10-15 minutes I don't think we won a second ball." It ain't subtle, it ain't pretty but it is exciting to watch (I really enjoyed watching those play offs on TV) and at League 2 level it works......we are battling for survival and we need to toughen up and steamroller opponents like Northampton did back in June after being shown up by Cheltenham in the first leg.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[Barling Magna]

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

So young footballers can't grow, develop and learn then......? Northampton looked like a sow's ear, but four days later there was a silk purse for all to see....

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

The set up and tactics today we’re very poor and we don’t have the players we need to stay up but the worst thing today was that every player was outbattled by his Cheltenham (yes, those giants of football) counterpart.

We didn’t make any effort throughout and that is both unforgivable and incredibly worrying.

Not sure about effort.
There was effort if you count lots of running around, and not sure about battles.
A battle is usually between two opponents; Southend didn't even offer that.
The expression: 'never laid a glove' comes to mind.
'We don't have the players' is spot on, ergo, tactics for players who can't execute is so what?

 

[Stuart W]

So young footballers can't grow, develop and learn then......? Northampton looked like a sow's ear, but four days later there was a silk purse for all to see....

Do you ever listen to Paul Clark's comments on the commentary? The number of times he says "that is basic" or "you need to get the basics right first". If you didn't know, you would think he was talking about an under-12 Sunday League game at Blenheim Park. Sadly, he is referring to professional footballers, who from what I have seen, are continuing to make the same mistakes week after week after week.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

After a good nights sleep I’m not quite as despondent as I was after watching that dreadful performance. It was made worse by the fact that I had felt we had our best performance in probably 18 months to two years in the previous game. It might not have been, but it certainly felt like it after all we’ve had to put up with during that time.

MM may feel that the change in formation is the right way to go, but with the benefit of hindsight it was too soon. The change unsettled the fragile foundation we had started to build. The players need to look hard at themselves though, because they are capable of much better.

Please, please let’s have something to cheer us up in the next match - we really need it with lockdown restrictions back again.

 

[wiggy]

I see Sam Barratt seems to be smashing them in for fun in the league we are not far off of joining ...he was worth keeping for another season i think

Omg so much better than what we have got now......makes me worry why M.M released him having presumably known him from non league.
Make no mistake with players like Ox , Hobson, Egbri, Aqua, Goodship, we are going to finish bottom!

 

[in the know]

I'm hoping, maybe dillusionaly that yesterday was more about cheltenhams strengths and probably more so they're experienced seasoned pro's than our poor showing. The truth may be that our team overall is as equally inexperienced and worldly as theyres is in the opposite way.
Winning the weak free kicks that they won with simple touch and fall tactics is not something the majority of our team have in their locker yet due to inexperience. How frustrating it must be for the few with experience to see team mates mugged time after time, or play one twos and there is no two!
Couple this with the obvious size height strength advantage that they didn't really even have to resort to using, and it's easy to see how it was a easy win.
Glass half full... It was only 2-0. The kids gained more experience and hopefully some will use the tactics against more equal opponents this season.
The ref was a fussy nightmare and easy to see why he gives so few cards. Nothing he generally blows for is worth blowing for ! Suited Cheltenham seasoned players perfectly.
Mid half throws (our half) will cost us more times this season if Elvis persists going backwards with them instead of more often down the line. (Not so evident on the other side).
JD may need to turn the obvious frustration but undoubtable passion into a fraction less ref ear bashing when on a yellow although it's good to see the captain standing up for team mates. This has been missing and isn't a bad thing. Must feel pretty isolated out there sometimes with limited other experience around you.
pleased to see Ralph and Lennon looking stronger considering it was such a bad game overall for us.
I recall Aquah coming on against Gillingham (last year?) And for 15 mins showing aggression and speed before getting sent off for over aggression. It's in him somewhere!!!
Oxley is a good pen stopper. I think he did win the mind games with the taker but was desperately unlucky. Made himself big and it crept under him. Really unlucky in my book.
sterling looked very lost. Maybe not the right game to make judgement. Goodship has a good engine and in a team with more passing ability will come good possibly.
Dieng was valuable to help deal with those long throws - was less effective in an attacking sense due to the height of the opposition all over the field.
Taylor just looked unable to cope with the style of the game and when pressed constantly shows the inexperience in his game. Has lots of attributes which Cheltenham snuffled out with their game plan. Think will be invaluable usually.
I don't think we're in a position to get clever with tactical changes. Sad to say I think MM must know this but saw it as the only chance of getting anything out of the game. We were pushing our luck asking kids to adapt and have this capability and against a whole team of well drilled seasoned pro's, it was a long shot.
Personally, as long as MM can retain confidence and team spirit, I'd say that game went as expected it would go.
There will be teams we stand far greater chances with.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Yes it can’t be overlooked that Cheltenham got their game plan spot on, but it’s worrying how easily they were able to nullify our limited threat. We’ve got to work much harder, be much smarter and get the basics right. Good thing is, they’ve got an opportunity to put things right quickly. Roll on Tues.

 

[getintoem]

I never usually comment on matches as there are so many others on here that cover many, if not all, of my own opinions but after yesterday’s showing I feel the need to express myself.

Although Cheltenham challenged for promotion last season, and have a good few points on the board so far this, on yesterday’s showing they are really nothing special in my opinion but Michael Duff knows how to set up a side to grind out a result in League 2. I saw his interview after their match with Grimsby and he appeared to be an angry man so I have no doubt he gave the players the sharp end of a tongue lashing in the dressing room. What they lack in footballing niceties are compensated by work rate and physical strength and, although he didn’t say it, I had the impression he was less than happy with the effort they put in last Tuesday. We probably had the backlash from that yesterday. Sadly, our work rate was mostly well below theirs and we just do not have the physical presence in our side or the nous to cope with the bustling, harassing outfits in this division.

In the first half they simply stopped us from playing, closing us down quickly and in numbers. They only really threatened our goal from one free kick and a defensive error that gave them a clear-cut chance, but Hobson made good ground on that occasion and threw his body in the way to block the shot. Obviously, their game plan was to frustrate us and they were good at it, knowing that they would undermine any tiny bit of confidence we may have built from our last two games by giving us no time on the ball. It was uncomfortable for us and to make life easier for them we gifted them a penalty.

In the first few minutes of the second half they seemed to give us a little more space and time but inevitably our possession rarely comes to anything as we lack the ability to create goal scoring chances and too easily give the ball away or get brushed off it. Soon they hit us with the second goal. A ball from their penalty area to just short of halfway, a long ball from there down the left channel gathered and laid back for Hussey to cross and Lloyd gets in between Dieng and Lennon to head it past Oxley. That is how easily we are undone when hit quickly and that was just about game over.

We have no cutting edge up front, we have no creativity in mid field and although the defence looks a little better since the return of Lennon and Dieng we frequently get exposed by sides that run at us.

In over 60 years of supporting, following and now watching via iFollow I am currently not confident we can turn this around. I do not think we have the right blend of personnel in the squad to cope with the way football is played in League 2. Many on this board did not like Paul Sturrock’s brand of football but it worked in this division. His philosophy of getting the ball forward as quickly as possible to play in the opposition’s final third may not have been pretty but I do not get much pleasure from seeing us pass it about precariously in our own half, made even worse when we are already a goal or two behind. We did not really give Cheltenham much opposition and my concern is that we do not have the robust type of players to mix it with such teams and most managers will formulate a game plan to stifle us.

There are so many imponderables currently. Will we make the improvements to get us climbing the table? Will the season be curtailed because of covid-19? Will we be in a position of safety should that happen and PPG is used to determine relegation? Will some clubs in League 2 be financially unable to continue (including us)? Fortunately, we are not adrift at the bottom of the table at present and we almost managed to get three points against Exeter, although I did not think we were convincing in that match. I keep telling myself we are a work in progress and from the outset this season I decided that 22nd place would be acceptable, but to achieve that we need to perform much better than we did yesterday. We must keep the faith though and trust that we will meet some sides against who we can get a result, I just hope it is sooner rather than later.

 

[Stan33]

I'm hoping, maybe dillusionaly that yesterday was more about cheltenhams strengths and probably more so they're experienced seasoned pro's than our poor showing. The truth may be that our team overall is as equally inexperienced and worldly as theyres is in the opposite way.
Winning the weak free kicks that they won with simple touch and fall tactics is not something the majority of our team have in their locker yet due to inexperience. How frustrating it must be for the few with experience to see team mates mugged time after time, or play one twos and there is no two!
Couple this with the obvious size height strength advantage that they didn't really even have to resort to using, and it's easy to see how it was a easy win.
Glass half full... It was only 2-0. The kids gained more experience and hopefully some will use the tactics against more equal opponents this season.
The ref was a fussy nightmare and easy to see why he gives so few cards. Nothing he generally blows for is worth blowing for ! Suited Cheltenham seasoned players perfectly.
Mid half throws (our half) will cost us more times this season if Elvis persists going backwards with them instead of more often down the line. (Not so evident on the other side).
JD may need to turn the obvious frustration but undoubtable passion into a fraction less ref ear bashing when on a yellow although it's good to see the captain standing up for team mates. This has been missing and isn't a bad thing. Must feel pretty isolated out there sometimes with limited other experience around you.
pleased to see Ralph and Lennon looking stronger considering it was such a bad game overall for us.
I recall Aquah coming on against Gillingham (last year?) And for 15 mins showing aggression and speed before getting sent off for over aggression. It's in him somewhere!!!
Oxley is a good pen stopper. I think he did win the mind games with the taker but was desperately unlucky. Made himself big and it crept under him. Really unlucky in my book.
sterling looked very lost. Maybe not the right game to make judgement. Goodship has a good engine and in a team with more passing ability will come good possibly.
Dieng was valuable to help deal with those long throws - was less effective in an attacking sense due to the height of the opposition all over the field.
Taylor just looked unable to cope with the style of the game and when pressed constantly shows the inexperience in his game. Has lots of attributes which Cheltenham snuffled out with their game plan. Think will be invaluable usually.
I don't think we're in a position to get clever with tactical changes. Sad to say I think MM must know this but saw it as the only chance of getting anything out of the game. We were pushing our luck asking kids to adapt and have this capability and against a whole team of well drilled seasoned pro's, it was a long shot.
Personally, as long as MM can retain confidence and team spirit, I'd say that game went as expected it would go.
There will be teams we stand far greater chances with.

One of the best posts I’ve read on here !

 

[Evening Echo]

SOUTHEND United fans have their say on Saturday's 2-0 defeat to Cheltenham Town at Roots Hall.

Read more on this story


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[Kris]

Before the game my dad asked me why Egbri had been dropped. I was slightly disappointed myself but I assumed MM had sacrificed him to play 4-3-3, with Acquah being flanked by Goodship and Sterling, the latter having looked more threatening in attack last week; and with Elvis back, Hobson moving to CB and Dieng moving to CM alongside Taylor and Demi. The match started and to be honest I couldn't work out who was playing where.

The first half was poor and the penalty was preventable and careless but I wasn't too bothered as I thought we'd step it up after the break. Unfortunately it was Cheltenham who did that and after their second goal we practically gave up.

The performance as a whole was one of the flattest I've ever seen, perhaps second only to our 2-0 defeat by Fleetwood a few seasons back in League 1. Like that game, the gaps between defence, midfield and attack were too big and Cheltenham barely needed to get out of second gear. And that's worrying. Very loosely speaking I prefer us when we're awful because sometimes it means we at least competed, just very badly, whereas a lethargic performance just isn't acceptable. For example, despite being thrashed by Harrogate, we had good spells and only a wonder save denied Kelman from reducing the score to 2-1. Yesterday we spent most of the game in our own half, even when we had the ball.

Trying to find positives; barely any. Dieng, Hobson and Lennon played ok as a back three but that's about it. At another stretch, I felt a little sorry for Acquah. Not great but he was starved of support for pretty much the whole of the game. No coincidence that his better games have been when he's had teammates around him to win the second ball.

Negatives: Despite the above, the 3-4-3 system didn't work. Elvis is a shadow of the player we saw last season and didn't seem to understand his job, likewise Ralph. Otherwise, see nearly every para above this one.

MM: No idea why he changed the tactics so drastically a week after our best performance of the season. Bad move.

Opposition: Will definitely be there or thereabouts in terms of promotion. Very well organised and had the luxury of playing within themselves because that was all they needed to do.

The ref: Abysmal. Most refs have been OK so far but this one penalised us for the lightest of touches yet seemed to ignore overly aggressive challenges by the opposition.

Overall: Just hope this was a bad day at the office and that maybe we were complacent after such a great performance last week.

Next: A trip to Salford on Tuesday. Difficult to tell whether it's a good or bad thing that the next game is only a few days away. I mentioned our performance against Fleetwood earlier on and I think I'm right in saying we then beat Oxford on Tuesday to soften the blow. Hopefully we can dig out some sort of positive result this time around.

 

[Zeuss]

Salford lost today

Did they? I’m not surprised—they were probably tired and disheartened after losing 1-0 to Port Vale yesterday.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Omg so much better than what we have got now......makes me worry why M.M released him having presumably known him from non league.
Make no mistake with players like Ox , Hobson, Egbri, Aqua, Goodship, we are going to finish bottom!

Come on then sport, go to the Salford thread and put down your team selection.
I am not saying I agree or disagree on the names your post above highlights BUT what are the alternatives please?

 

[Evening Echo]

SHAUN Hobson feels Southend United must stand up and be counted following Saturday’s 2-0 defeat against Cheltenham Town.

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[wiggy]

Come on then sport, go to the Salford thread and put down your team selection.
I am not saying I agree or disagree on the names your post above highlights BUT what are the alternatives please?

What does it matter what i think the team should be?....it's up to Mark M, he's got to rearrange the chairs on the Titanic.
Here's my take on who wouldn't be playing.....Ox, although what i have seen of Seaden he hasn't trained on to be good enough yet...loan keeper required!
Acquah would not be anywhere near the first team and nor would Egbri......as for Macca, first boat back to where he came from...what is the point of these old age cripples?

 

[Barling Magna]

Do you ever listen to Paul Clark's comments on the commentary? The number of times he says "that is basic" or "you need to get the basics right first". If you didn't know, you would think he was talking about an under-12 Sunday League game at Blenheim Park. Sadly, he is referring to professional footballers, who from what I have seen, are continuing to make the same mistakes week after week after week.

Yes Stuart, I do listen to Paul Clark's commentary. It's exactly what I quoted in my post the Cheltenham manager saying: "When you don't do the basics and they do it very well." It's worth mentioning that Alan McCormack was a leading member of that Northampton side which did the basics very well.....

 

[RHB]

What does it matter what i think the team should be?....it's up to Mark M, he's got to rearrange the chairs on the Titanic.
Here's my take on who wouldn't be playing.....Ox, although what i have seen of Seaden he hasn't trained on to be good enough yet...loan keeper required!
Acquah would not be anywhere near the first team and nor would Egbri......as for Macca, first boat back to where he came from...what is the point of these old age cripples?

They give you the opportunity to express your feelings about them, over and over and over and over..........................................

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Ref above and Wiggy.
I don't think anyone likes it BUT we are under embargo.
Finances are shot to beggerery.
It's true, and it won't change much until Ron pays the tax man and the FA takes us of embargo.
So MM has to use what he has.
Carping, and scapegoats are comments BUT what are the suggestions?
And if you post on a forum then don't you do that as you think your thoughts are worth sharing?

 

[wiggy]

They give you the opportunity to express your feelings about them, over and over and over and over..........................................

...would rather be praising the likes of an up and coming youngster like Kyle Taylor over and over and over..........