Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 2-3 Aldershot Town

[Chris Powell's mate]

a lot of good sense posted on here ....

I do think PB has got it wrong . I think he thought I need some tough old dogs to bust my way out this nasty hell hole ... but his tough old dogs are getting done by hungry pups fighting for their opportunity to rise up.

I think you need a way of playing that allows higher skill levels to out perform the rough and tumble - and PBs whole focus has been on the rough and tumble..

Obviously playing SUFC and their "famous" manager is the big one for these teams - and the officials are generally terrible - so it is not easy BUT we can play.

I think PB has created a fragile mind set with his hysterics - turning on the players.

I hope he can throw his hands up and plead guilty - take some responsibility - have a total re-think and get a result Saturday.

Otherwise ... ?

Agreed until the last couple of paragraphs.
What would Zoners say to a manager clearly praising poor performances and ignoring the obvious?
'You're talking out of you a***!" Comes to mind.
It looks as if the recruitment has been poor, and one can imagine him saying that at some stage.
But as for 'hungry pups' I'm right with you.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I hope you don't mind an outsider chipping in. Obviously I can't comment on the game, but enough of you have done so to give a picture.

I've been reading this board since we (Blackpool) beat you at RH two years ago. My perspective on all this is that the responsibility for where you are has to lie at the top. I've watched a couple of your Supporters meetings on Zoom and listened closely to what Mr. Martin has had to say. My impressions :

a) I can't comment on the owner's overall strategy re the stadium and redevelopment, as I don't know enough about it. But it's hard to discern a strategy re the football

b) the alarm bells really started ringing for me after a Zoom meeting where the owner was asked what contingency plans he had prepared for budgets and recruitment should the club be relegated out of the EFL. It was clear that there were none, despite the club being in a very precarious position. At other clubs - mine for example - contingency planning when future status is uncertain is a staple part of what the club does

c) the other thing I found hard to fathom was giving MM a vote of confidence in a supporters meeting and then sacking him days later. It suggested either dishonesty or panic on the part of the owner then, and still does now

d) that was compounded by the appointment of Phil Brown. I know there is a sentimental attachment for all of you, but it felt surreal reading some of the positivity about him at the time. Elsewhere in football fan circles he is viewed as a man who has very limited tactical acumen and one whom seems to have been left behind by modern coaching methods and is further hampered by what look likes a very limited list of contacts, if his recruitment is anything to go by

e) there doesn't seem to be a long term plan around sustainability. My team got tubbed 0-3 at home last night, and there is some grumpiness around this morning. But ours is a young team (and getting younger), scrupulously scouted and bought with a view to re-sale potential and further re-invesment. We are not making linear progress, but we are going forward and people understand how we are trying to do it. Do you feel you can say the same?

f) last point re Brown. I have been a team manager all my professional life, and one thing I do know about building effective teams is that you don't single out individuals for public blame or question the overall integrity of the group if you want to inspire them or build trust. If there was one immediate change I would make it would be to ban the manager from making media comments, especially after poor results. All he does is pour petrol on a fire that looks to me as though it is already out of control

I must say I do fear for you a bit. The League you are in is a difficult place to compete, and probably the hardest one in the pyramid to get out of in the right direction. The only saving grace I can see is Dover and Barnet are probably going to take up two relegation spots (and I'm not sure about Barnet).

I don’t think we’ll go down but otherwise it is hard to argue with any of that. It’s upsetting that an outsider can so clearly identify the problems whilst those responsible still stick their head in the sand.

 

[ColinMorrisWalksOnWater]

I left the UK for a holiday abroad on the 3rd September. Things on the football field weren't great, but we had won against KL and looked competitive and a little unlucky against Stockport. Not too shabby and looking forward to hopefully picking up a few points in the next few games. Warning sign against Wealdstone, but hugely unlucky, although naive against Wrexham. Then WOW... The wheels have come off, all the fragilities of the squad pointed out by many have been on show in spades and the manager digs the team out and we then lose to a team with zero wins so far at home. I am now viewing the season with a heavy heart, as it seems we are clueless from top to bottom in the club. I think the only person doing their job at the club anywhere near competently must be the tea lady, but it probably won't be too long before she is in the frame for a defeat. I have followed this club since '76 and never, ever known anything like it! The team is inbalanced, lacks pace and creativity. This stands out a mile and for this l lay at PB' s door. I backed his appointment, but he wanted the final say on signings so it is down to him. But he supposedly has a team he wanted to work with, CF and RD, are they suddenly mute and out of ideas? Are they ignored? And when PB goes to watch games, does he not see these missing ingredients in the teams he watches. Then there is Ron "if we don't play Wigan next season, you can call me a liar" Martin. Well Liar by Queen should be your anthem, because that is exactly what you are. 6 months after we got planning permission for the new ground and during exactly the same recession, Brighton got planning permission for theirs. I am not interested in the footballong development of what they achieved, although l applaud it, just the fact they built their stadium and played football in it in a shorter timescale than us, but it WAS ACHIEVED. We had that charlatan RM in charge, not an obviously competent Chairman who could manage such a project in the same financial conditions and their fans weren't led up the garden path and still are. And all the time the local media are silent letting him carry on ruining this club whilst one of the biggest local stories rolls on unreported. They too should be held to account, when the inevitable happens and this club disappears, whilst the man responsible drives off into the sunset in another new Bentley.

So l will land just before our game with Torquay, but unlike when l went away feeling we had turned a corner, l will return wondering how many we will lose by this week and expecting another season of pain, because l can't stop hoping we will win and the club l love can't really get any worse..... but they do!

 

[Kris]

Exactly ! He said that himself. It's a worry that they're not prepared to bust a gut for him.

Thing is, this is worrying on two counts. Firstly, it may be that they actually are busting a gut for PB but aren't capable of doing it successfully because they don't have the legs to carry it out for 90 minutes. Alternatively, as you say, if they genuinely aren't prepared to bust a gut for him then we need to think seriously about sacking PB. I don't want that at the moment but he needs to seriously look for solutions to our form - ideally bring some younger blood in who can last the full 90 +. Not easy of course.

 

[Shrimper]

The worrying thing for me as well is that the win v KL could easily have been a draw.

When are highlights uploaded btw

 

[Texas Eslan]

What?! He was concussed for one and wasnt even on the pitch for the other!!!

Ha ha! I tried to forget the game so obviously I’m off the mark on that but last night he was definitely still on the pitch.

 

[Holy Joe]

Alexa, play ‘Hate To Say I Told You So’ by The Vines.

Not found

 

[Jim Levenstein]

Not found

Think he meant 'The Hives'

 

[Texas Eslan]

I definitely think we have misjudged our recruitment though (PB or, as it should be, our DoF Ricky Duncan) in that we have brought in a load of old warhorses with very few fast, nimble players in both the mental and physical sense. This league, whilst being heavily reliant on strength is actually pretty quick. Last night Aldershot were quicker in both mind and body than we are.

Keeper and forward line are our only positives right now for me. Midfield is woefully short of talent and defence have been unable to deal with any balls straight through the lines due to that lack of pace.

It’s going to be a long season again unless we can dig up a couple of up and coming gems from lower divisions over the next few weeks.

 

[Holy Joe]

So positives from me...

Arnold - didn't look affected by injury, don't think there was much he could do with the goals (haven't seen replays yet)
Ralph - did ok defensively, some good runs forward
Dalby and Murphy - look lively and are creating the odd chance on their own
Walsh - had a couple of good runs

Now onto the negatives
Midfield - we pretty much by passed it with long balls from defence - rubbish
Creativity - totally absent, we rarely put together a string of passes leading to a ball into the box

4-4-2 - I think it's ok BUT the centre back pairing that worked last season was White and Hobson, but PB selects Coulson????

Egbri - I think Akinola and ANG (and maybe Walsh) are better players. I've read some comments on Akinola and ANG not creating too much last season - but last season we didn't have Murphy and Dalby - maybe with better movement ahead of them, ANG/Akinola could be more creative. I doubt we'll see this though given PB's views.

The bench - not sure how he left both Phillips and Ferguson out of the squad (injuries??), gave himself no options in changing the middle of the park.

 

[Holy Joe]

Another thing - thought at the times the game was crying out for a bit of width - so many times, all 20 outfield players were compressed into an area half a pitch wide and probably barely 30m length ways of the pitch. At one point, probably from one of our goal kicks or offside, Egbri moved wide, dragging the fall back with him. But Dunne called him back to the centre spot. I think a bit of width would've been good, Egbri had the pace to beat the fullback and had space to run into. Plus by pulling the fullback out wide it gives more space for Murphy and Dalby work in

 

[RobM]

None of the midfield seem to want the ball. Maybe because they can't make a decent attacking pass. Egbri just runs around a lot, what else? Walsh looked a better bet to me.

 

[RobM]

Another thing - thought at the times the game was crying out for a bit of width - so many times, all 20 outfield players were compressed into an area half a pitch wide and probably barely 30m length ways of the pitch. At one point, probably from one of our goal kicks or offside, Egbri moved wide, dragging the fall back with him. But Dunne called him back to the centre spot. I think a bit of width would've been good, Egbri had the pace to beat the fullback and had space to run into. Plus by pulling the fullback out wide it gives more space for Murphy and Dalby work in

Agreed, never understood the the current fashion of all congregating by the half-way flag (well, if they still existed) for a goal kick.

 

[rhrussell]

Message to Murphy stay on your feet, stop falling over trying to get free kicks, its not going to happen in this league, and you should no that as you have played in it last season.

 

[wakes123]

I hope you don't mind an outsider chipping in. Obviously I can't comment on the game, but enough of you have done so to give a picture.

I've been reading this board since we (Blackpool) beat you at RH two years ago. My perspective on all this is that the responsibility for where you are has to lie at the top. I've watched a couple of your Supporters meetings on Zoom and listened closely to what Mr. Martin has had to say. My impressions :

a) I can't comment on the owner's overall strategy re the stadium and redevelopment, as I don't know enough about it. But it's hard to discern a strategy re the football

b) the alarm bells really started ringing for me after a Zoom meeting where the owner was asked what contingency plans he had prepared for budgets and recruitment should the club be relegated out of the EFL. It was clear that there were none, despite the club being in a very precarious position. At other clubs - mine for example - contingency planning when future status is uncertain is a staple part of what the club does

c) the other thing I found hard to fathom was giving MM a vote of confidence in a supporters meeting and then sacking him days later. It suggested either dishonesty or panic on the part of the owner then, and still does now

d) that was compounded by the appointment of Phil Brown. I know there is a sentimental attachment for all of you, but it felt surreal reading some of the positivity about him at the time. Elsewhere in football fan circles he is viewed as a man who has very limited tactical acumen and one whom seems to have been left behind by modern coaching methods and is further hampered by what look likes a very limited list of contacts, if his recruitment is anything to go by

e) there doesn't seem to be a long term plan around sustainability. My team got tubbed 0-3 at home last night, and there is some grumpiness around this morning. But ours is a young team (and getting younger), scrupulously scouted and bought with a view to re-sale potential and further re-invesment. We are not making linear progress, but we are going forward and people understand how we are trying to do it. Do you feel you can say the same?

f) last point re Brown. I have been a team manager all my professional life, and one thing I do know about building effective teams is that you don't single out individuals for public blame or question the overall integrity of the group if you want to inspire them or build trust. If there was one immediate change I would make it would be to ban the manager from making media comments, especially after poor results. All he does is pour petrol on a fire that looks to me as though it is already out of control

I must say I do fear for you a bit. The League you are in is a difficult place to compete, and probably the hardest one in the pyramid to get out of in the right direction. The only saving grace I can see is Dover and Barnet are probably going to take up two relegation spots (and I'm not sure about Barnet).

I'm a manager of a team of 10 in my company and completely agree with this. If someone in my team was performing poorly, I would have a private one to one chat with them to try and deal with it. I certainly wouldn't call them out in front of the rest of the team in our weekly meetings.

Phil Brown is a dinosaur and his managerial techniques are way too old school for the modern game.

 

[BlueBore]

Humping the ball forward EVERY time isn't going to work - even in this league.
There's got to be a bit of light and shade, and if that means Rush instead of Murphy or Dalby with one of the other two as target, then fine.
We've got to try something new.
If you're a visiting scout, you're going to recommend your fastest players get outside and bombard the box with crosses.
Someone has to play the sweeper role to stem our aching slowness.
My 3,000th post spoke about Boreham Wood's success.
I've looked at their squad, and believe me, they're no world beaters.
But they've clearly got something we don't.

A clue?

 

[BlueBore]

Take the central midfield for example:

Dunne - defensive
Ferguson - defensive
Ogogo - defensive
Atkinson - defensive
Phillips - attacking

So we have one attacking central midfielder with a bit of creativity in his locker and he drops him at home to ****ing Aldershot?! Am I missing something?

I think you could add
Bridge - attacking
to that, but he's deliberately choosing not to play him in that role

 

[stewart]

The problem is in the centre of midfield. Neither Akinola or ANG will play there. In terms of the wing where they’d actually play, neither of them are anywhere near as good as Bridge. An upgrade on Egbri? Perhaps, but not a massive one.

bridge should be right Ralph on the left . We need to decent CDs and a playmaker desparately.

 

[Thunderbolt & Lightfoot]

a lot of good sense posted on here ....

I do think PB has got it wrong . I think he thought I need some tough old dogs to bust my way out this nasty hell hole ... but his tough old dogs are getting done by hungry pups fighting for their opportunity to rise up.

I think you need a way of playing that allows higher skill levels to out perform the rough and tumble - and PBs whole focus has been on the rough and tumble..

Obviously playing SUFC and their "famous" manager is the big one for these teams - and the officials are generally terrible - so it is not easy BUT we can play.

I think PB has created a fragile mind set with his hysterics - turning on the players.

I hope he can throw his hands up and plead guilty - take some responsibility - have a total re-think and get a result Saturday.

Otherwise ... ?

I was a big fan of PB first time round, but if I'm honest with myself I have to admit your criticisms of him are bang on.
The fact that you've expressed them in a way that doesn't sound like you're motivated by an intense personal dislike of the guy makes them easier to accept.
One other more general point I think needs making is that as supporters we're going to have a more realistic view of some of our youth products. We all want them them to succeed but as far as I can see some of them are just not good enough.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Thing is, this is worrying on two counts. Firstly, it may be that they actually are busting a gut for PB but aren't capable of doing it successfully because they don't have the legs to carry it out for 90 minutes. Alternatively, as you say, if they genuinely aren't prepared to bust a gut for him then we need to think seriously about sacking PB. I don't want that at the moment but he needs to seriously look for solutions to our form - ideally bring some younger blood in who can last the full 90 +. Not easy of course.

Agreed! And said so further back.
We need legs and speed; I'm not averse to any age, but it's more likely to come from a 20-something.