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What direction does the club need to take?


  • Total voters
    86
I think this is, kind of, what the club are looking at...

With the stadium costs looming, the finances at the club looking suspect and reinforcements for the first team needed, it would be all-too-easy to simply cut the funding for the youth development programme and reallocate the funds... Which is pretty much what RM had to do when he first arrived here. Instead, the youth programme is flourishing under Duncan, the support from the Trust and RM's acceptance that a youth programme is essential to a club.

Look our recent signings, Paterson and Spencer are both just 20 years old and have their careers in front of them. Had he not been a troublesome little ****, we would undoubtedly have signed Lee Sawyer and we've made enquiries about other young players, Sean Morrison included. Obviously experience is needed to mould the squad together, but If we're going to make signings, I'd much rather be making these than signing 28 year old journeymen with absolutely no desire to run their socks off for the squad.

More importantly than this, Tilson's experience as a youth coach will make him aware of how useful this can be and I think we've seen with the likes of Moussa, Herd and Lawson before them that he won't hesitate in throwing them in at the deep end.

I disagree and think Tilson has been hesitant to give all three, plus O'Keefe, Ademeno and Kightly opportunities. I'm reluctant to mention the last two, as I don't want to turn this into a "we should never have released them" type thread, and I think he was justified in releasing them after their lack of impact in their least season at the club. My issue is more that despite showing glimpses the likes of Ademeno, Lawson and now Herd (although I support Tilson on this one, others disagree) have been overlooked and found chances few and far between.

Moussa is the only one who has come through our youth team that has been a first time regular, and that only after a loan spell at Wycombe.

I might be wrong, but there doesn't appear to be anyone coming through the youth team at the moment either.
 
I am sure that we only get to sign the majority of players on the cheap. Up until about a year ago I had a couple of very good contacts within the club who, when I asked regularly in the transfer windows if we had any new signings on the horizon, the answers would always be "No, we won't pay decent wages".

I am not advocating paying fortunes for players as that would be suicidal but I feel that every time we are after a player who "needs a bit of time to consider our offer" the reason we don't sign them is we are not prepared to be held to ransom over wages. Whether we offer the going rate is debatable.
 
I disagree and think Tilson has been hesitant to give all three, plus O'Keefe, Ademeno and Kightly opportunities. I'm reluctant to mention the last two, as I don't want to turn this into a "we should never have released them" type thread, and I think he was justified in releasing them after their lack of impact in their least season at the club. My issue is more that despite showing glimpses the likes of Ademeno, Lawson and now Herd (although I support Tilson on this one, others disagree) have been overlooked and found chances few and far between.

Moussa is the only one who has come through our youth team that has been a first time regular, and that only after a loan spell at Wycombe.

I might be wrong, but there doesn't appear to be anyone coming through the youth team at the moment either.

Moussa only really broke into the first team on a regular basis in the second half of last season, by which time he was 20 years old. O'Keefe is only 18 and, although I've been impressed from what little i've seen of him, is quite slight of built, so perhaps they're holding him back for when he's a bit older and can handle himself more. In terms of O'Keefe and Herd for that matter, I think both could do with a loan spell and if the squad wasn't paper thin, I think they would have by now.

Certainly from Lawson, I never saw anything in the lad for me to question his exclusion from the team and his fall to non-league has validated Tilson's evaluation of him. Admittedly, I saw next to nothing of Ademeno but got the impression that while he might cope physically with League football, he didn't have the overall ability or mental strength to adapt. Like Kightly, a spell in non-league might do him some good and he could come back into League football stronger than ever... It's a chance you take, for every Kightly we let go, there's an Eastwood or a Gower that is found.

In terms of what's coming through the ranks now, The players at the moment IIRC are mainly first year scholars, with the vast majority of the third years being released at the end of last season, so whereas they might be years away from the first team a fair few are highly rated by the management. N'goo, Orenuja and Abalimba have gone onto clubs higher in the league spectrum.

Bentley the Goalkeeper has obviously been on the bench recently, Justin Hazell and Julian Okai have come on for minutes in the Cup competitions and the likes of Crawford, Dennis and Whittaker make regular appearances for the Stiffs. I know for a fact that Femi's brother Keith Orenuja is being tipped as one to look out for...
 
EastStandBlue said:
O'Keefe is only 18 and, although I've been impressed from what little i've seen of him, is quite slight of built, so perhaps they're holding him back for when he's a bit older and can handle himself more
I was quite impressed by O'Keefe last night, and actually thought he had bulked up a bit. TBH I didn't recognise him, for the 1st 10 mins of the 2nd half I couldn't work out why Spencer was playing left wing ;)
 
From what i've seen of O'Keefe, i think he's quite decent. He's still young and obviously still has a lot to learn, but has the right attributes.

Last time i saw him play, was for the ressies against Northampton wher ehe captained our side. Thought he handled himself very well in the centre, looked to play killer balls here and there and was willing to get stuck in. Definitly one for the future i reckon
 
Moussa only really broke into the first team on a regular basis in the second half of last season, by which time he was 20 years old. O'Keefe is only 18 and, although I've been impressed from what little i've seen of him, is quite slight of built, so perhaps they're holding him back for when he's a bit older and can handle himself more. In terms of O'Keefe and Herd for that matter, I think both could do with a loan spell and if the squad wasn't paper thin, I think they would have by now.

Certainly from Lawson, I never saw anything in the lad for me to question his exclusion from the team and his fall to non-league has validated Tilson's evaluation of him. Admittedly, I saw next to nothing of Ademeno but got the impression that while he might cope physically with League football, he didn't have the overall ability or mental strength to adapt. Like Kightly, a spell in non-league might do him some good and he could come back into League football stronger than ever... It's a chance you take, for every Kightly we let go, there's an Eastwood or a Gower that is found.

In terms of what's coming through the ranks now, The players at the moment IIRC are mainly first year scholars, with the vast majority of the third years being released at the end of last season, so whereas they might be years away from the first team a fair few are highly rated by the management. N'goo, Orenuja and Abalimba have gone onto clubs higher in the league spectrum.

Bentley the Goalkeeper has obviously been on the bench recently, Justin Hazell and Julian Okai have come on for minutes in the Cup competitions and the likes of Crawford, Dennis and Whittaker make regular appearances for the Stiffs. I know for a fact that Femi's brother Keith Orenuja is being tipped as one to look out for...

Those kids you mention are just warming the bench and doing nothing more. Our youth team seems to be perpetually filled with first year (and younger) players because we keep releasing the second years as they aren't good enough.

I'm not knocking us releasing Ademeno, Kightly or Lawson but there have been times when we've been short-numbered and they haven't had a look in. At one stage Lawson was keeping Eastwood out of the team, I'm not knocking Tilly for reinstating Freddy, but I do find it strange that he wasn't given more opportunities after that. Same for Ademeno. He played at Millwall, did OK and was basically never seen again? Why? We were short on numbers a fair few times last season, why not give him more of a run out?

How about Stuart O'Keefe this season? Last night was his second league appearance of the season and he did OK, especially for his first 10 or 15 minutes. Considering how paper thin our squad has been all season and how dire McCormack's form has been until recently, why not give him a chance? He doesn't even get 20 minutes in a dead game, his only two league appearances have been when we've been forced into making a change because of injury and we've had no-one else to turn to.
 
Those kids you mention are just warming the bench and doing nothing more. Our youth team seems to be perpetually filled with first year (and younger) players because we keep releasing the second years as they aren't good enough.

I'm not knocking us releasing Ademeno, Kightly or Lawson but there have been times when we've been short-numbered and they haven't had a look in. At one stage Lawson was keeping Eastwood out of the team, I'm not knocking Tilly for reinstating Freddy, but I do find it strange that he wasn't given more opportunities after that. Same for Ademeno. He played at Millwall, did OK and was basically never seen again? Why? We were short on numbers a fair few times last season, why not give him more of a run out?

How about Stuart O'Keefe this season? Last night was his second league appearance of the season and he did OK, especially for his first 10 or 15 minutes. Considering how paper thin our squad has been all season and how dire McCormack's form has been until recently, why not give him a chance? He doesn't even get 20 minutes in a dead game, his only two league appearances have been when we've been forced into making a change because of injury and we've had no-one else to turn to.

Great point and one I've mentioned a few times. Its not like these kids come on and disgrace themselves (same with Herd) - so why arent they getting game time?

I for one (as I am sure others would), would be far more sympathetic to the team if it was full of home grown youngsters that are really giving it a go for the cause. Even Calver looked ok pre-season and hasnt been seen since.

If Herd, O'Keefe and Calver (plus Moussa) were getting regular match time, I'm sure we'd really get behind them and support them to the hilt. I know supporters *should* do that that anyway, I'm just saying I think the groans and boos would be more reserved...
 
Great point and one I've mentioned a few times. Its not like these kids come on and disgrace themselves (same with Herd) - so why arent they getting game time?

I remember Tilly commenting on this earlier in the season. He said "no-one is doing enough to convince him they deserve a place on the bench, let alone the starting XI".

Can only think this must still be the case in his eyes
 
I remember Tilly commenting on this earlier in the season. He said "no-one is doing enough to convince him they deserve a place on the bench, let alone the starting XI".

Can only think this must still be the case in his eyes

But like I said, whenever they do get some time - they never let us down, so its a bit odd.
 
But like I said, whenever they do get some time - they never let us down, so its a bit odd.

I agree 100%.

Always thought O'Keefe has played well when he's come on. Similar to Ademeno, always liked him, yet he never got a chance really. Guess Tilly has his reasons
 
I didnt realise this thread was a year old for a while there.

All still seems very relevant though!
 
How about Stuart O'Keefe this season? Last night was his second league appearance of the season and he did OK, especially for his first 10 or 15 minutes. Considering how paper thin our squad has been all season and how dire McCormack's form has been until recently, why not give him a chance? He doesn't even get 20 minutes in a dead game, his only two league appearances have been when we've been forced into making a change because of injury and we've had no-one else to turn to.

This is something I whole heartedly agree with... Unfortunately Tilson does seem to have an over-inflated sense of dependance on his favourites, such as Barrett and McCormack, and as a result they are hardly ever dropped no matter how poor they have been.
 
This is something I whole heartedly agree with... Unfortunately Tilson does seem to have an over-inflated sense of dependance on his favourites, such as Barrett and McCormack, and as a result they are hardly ever dropped no matter how poor they have been.

This is what i believe aswell.

You never know though, there could be clauses in their contracts which stipulate they must play X% of matches if they're available
 
This is something I whole heartedly agree with... Unfortunately Tilson does seem to have an over-inflated sense of dependance on his favourites, such as Barrett and McCormack, and as a result they are hardly ever dropped no matter how poor they have been.

In some cases yes, but throughout his management career he has dropped the likes of Maher, Eastwood, Goater, Prior to name a few.
 
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