Ten years of do ron ron

[lombard]

Has the tenure of RM been that good over the last ten years ?
When Vic Jobson relinquished his position of SUFC,the club was aprox £2.8 million in debt,owned Roots Hall and the training ground.Today SUFC have no tangible assets,do not own Roots Hall or the training ground.The ground in 1999 was worth approx £6 million and the training ground £750,000.They were spirited away for substantially lesss than their true worth.The debt for property exchange was very much in RM's favour.Today,SUFC are in debt for approx £5.5 million and do not own Roots Hall or the training ground.Proportedly some SUFC money has been spent on some of the planning applications,even though the club will only be tenants at Fossett's Farm.Why ? When the original idea was put forward for the new stadium under the chairmanship of John Main,the stadium was for a 16,000 capacity with an extension of 6,000 seats able to be built on one of the stands if needed.Building a shiny new stadium does not guarantee success,financially or playing wise.You only have to look at Darlington,Coventry,Derby ,Southampton and Leicester.
With the Sufc board comprising of yes men,who it seems do not put up opposition to RM and his ideas !! The future looks gloomy.
Being a long standing supporter,and experienced many dud chairman,i feel we are in a most precarious position.I for one do not hold out too much confidence in the latest heirachy.Let us hope I am proved wrong.

 

[DTS]

Never really read the stats before but when you see it on paper so to speak I am really not sure now. Great post by the way.

 

[grassroots]

Has the tenure of RM been that good over the last ten years ?
When Vic Jobson relinquished his position of SUFC,the club was aprox £2.8 million in debt,owned Roots Hall and the training ground.Today SUFC have no tangible assets,do not own Roots Hall or the training ground.The ground in 1999 was worth approx £6 million and the training ground £750,000.They were spirited away for substantially lesss than their true worth.The debt for property exchange was very much in RM's favour.Today,SUFC are in debt for approx £5.5 million and do not own Roots Hall or the training ground.Proportedly some SUFC money has been spent on some of the planning applications,even though the club will only be tenants at Fossett's Farm.Why ? When the original idea was put forward for the new stadium under the chairmanship of John Main,the stadium was for a 16,000 capacity with an extension of 6,000 seats able to be built on one of the stands if needed.Building a shiny new stadium does not guarantee success,financially or playing wise.You only have to look at Darlington,Coventry,Derby ,Southampton and Leicester.
With the Sufc board comprising of yes men,who it seems do not put up opposition to RM and his ideas !! The future looks gloomy.
Being a long standing supporter,and experienced many dud chairman,i feel we are in a most precarious position.I for one do not hold out too much confidence in the latest heirachy.Let us hope I am proved wrong.

.....and that's exactly how I see it. Had they gone ahead with the 16K stadium it would have been up and running years ago. RM got greedy, spread into Rochford with the training pitches so that he could build on the whole Boots and Laces complex, causing the developement to be delayed....... and the rest as they say is history.

 

[EastStandBlue]

.....and that's exactly how I see it. Had they gone ahead with the 16K stadium it would have been up and running years ago. RM got greedy, spread into Rochford with the training pitches so that he could build on the whole Boots and Laces complex, causing the developement to be delayed....... and the rest as they say is history.

And we'd be no better off for the sake of it, except we'd be lumbered with spiralling debt for the sake of just an extra 5,000 seats. People hugely underestimate the effect that the hotel and commercial outlets will have on our cashflow situation.

Football clubs have always suffered because their expenditure occurs throughout the year, yet income halts for 2 months of the summer. That's what football clubs struggle with and I'd hazard a guess at that being the sole reason for a lot of bridging loans taken out by clubs during the Summer months. With this development, not only will we benefit from having the extra capacity, but we'll be able to generate income throughout the year.

Oh, and we'll have better training facilities and the prospect of attaining Academy status... But that's far too adventurous a thought for some of the narrow minded on here.

At the end of the day, yes, if we'd stuck with the mellow 16,000 capacity plans that had been drawn up, we might have already had it built... But we'd be no better off with that in todays climate.

 

[grassroots]

And we'd be no better off for the sake of it, except we'd be lumbered with spiralling debt for the sake of just an extra 5,000 seats. People hugely underestimate the effect that the hotel and commercial outlets will have on our cashflow situation.

Football clubs have always suffered because their expenditure occurs throughout the year, yet income halts for 2 months of the summer. That's what football clubs struggle with and I'd hazard a guess at that being the sole reason for a lot of bridging loans taken out by clubs during the Summer months. With this development, not only will we benefit from having the extra capacity, but we'll be able to generate income throughout the year.

Oh, and we'll have better training facilities and the prospect of attaining Academy status... But that's far too adventurous a thought for some of the narrow minded on here.

At the end of the day, yes, if we'd stuck with the mellow 16,000 capacity plans that had been drawn up, we might have already had it built... But we'd be no better off with that in todays climate.

......well that's how it SHOULD be, The Blues getting a return from the Hotel, retail outlets and flats etc.......but they will own none of these, or the land on which they are built. I think Mr Martin could sooth a lot of 'us' doubters by outlining exactly how the income will filter to the Club.

 

[fixitkid]

......well that's how it SHOULD be, The Blues getting a return from the Hotel, retail outlets and flats etc.......but they will own none of these, or the land on which they are built. I think Mr Martin could sooth a lot of 'us' doubters by outlining exactly how the income will filter to the Club.

I know it's a simplisitic outlook but while he's our chairman, the better off he is the better off the club will be........ Hopefully

 

[weststander]

Has the tenure of RM been that good over the last ten years ? 2 Promotions, a relegation, 2 cup finals, a playoff final, beating Man Utd, drawing at Chelsea. Would you rather be Rochdale ?
When Vic Jobson relinquished his position of SUFC,the club was aprox £2.8 million in debt The debt i believe was actually over £6million only the sale of Roots Hall to our current chairman brought the figure down to around the £2.5 million mark,owned Roots Hall and the training ground.Today SUFC have no tangible assets,do not own Roots Hall or the training ground.The ground in 1999 was worth approx £6 million this was only due to Vic drastically overvaluing the land so that the debts would look smaller and the training ground £750,000.They were spirited away for substantially lesss than their true worth If they hadnt have been sold then we wouldnt be on this site today talking about the last 10 years as we wouldnt have a club.The debt for property exchange was very much in RM's favour.Today,SUFC are in debt for approx £5.5 million and do not own Roots Hall or the training ground Agreed and only financial mismanagement can be the explaination BUT how many of the fans (especially from this board) have been urging Ron to splash the cash to buy buy buy.Proportedly some SUFC money has been spent on some of the planning applications there is no proof of this as yet,even though the club will only be tenants at Fossett's Farm.Why ? When the original idea was put forward for the new stadium under the chairmanship of John Main,the stadium was for a 16,000 and think of the moaning on here when people cant get tickets for the next Man Utd/Chelsea/Spurs match as we've only got a 16,000 (I do agree though that 16/17000 would be a good size for our new ground) capacity with an extension of 6,000 seats able to be built on one of the stands if needed.Building a shiny new stadium does not guarantee success,financially or playing wise. No it doesnt guarantee success but is does guarantee that we will have a club to support for the forseeable future, no new stadium=no Southend United FACT, we cant keep haemorraging £2million per year.You only have to look at Darlington fair point, Coventry,Derby ,Southampton and Leicester these clubs all seem to be doing rather well with better crowds than before they moved and before you say look at the divisions they are in then i give you Leeds, Forest and Charlton who are in our/have been in League 1 and they havent moved stadia.
With the Sufc board comprising of yes men,who it seems do not put up opposition to RM and his ideas Ron owns all the shares to the club theres not much point objecting, only Gary Lockett seems to have had the balls to hand back his directorship in peortest !! The future looks gloomy. The immediate future looks gloomy, but if we can get past the next couple of years then i think the future looks rosyBeing a long standing supporter,and experienced many dud chairman,i feel we are in a most precarious position.I for one do not hold out too much confidence in the latest heirachy.Let us hope I am proved wrong. I have confidence that you will be if you are proven correct then i will be the first on here paying homage to your greater knowledge

We all knew when the new stadium was given planning permission that things would be difficult until it was built, along with a global recession things have got a bit tougher. I feel that Rons chairmanship has been good for the club, and if we do get relegated then we will only be back where he started and no worse off.

 

[grassroots]

We all knew when the new stadium was given planning permission that things would be difficult until it was built, along with a global recession things have got a bit tougher. I feel that Rons chairmanship has been good for the club, and if we do get relegated then we will only be back where he started and no worse off.

..... except that the Club now own nothing.

 

[weststander]

..... except that the Club now own nothing.

We owned nothing when Ron took over as Chairman, it had all been sold under John Mains stewardship.

I suppose we are actually better off as Ron owns the stadium rather than it being owned by Delancy who by their own admission were not in it for the love of it they were in it for the money and would thus could have sold it out from under us at any time.

 

[BrettieAngell]

..... except that the Club now own nothing.

The alternative was we went bust.

 

[grassroots]

We owned nothing when Ron took over as Chairman, it had all been sold under John Mains stewardship.

I suppose we are actually better off as Ron owns the stadium rather than it being owned by Delancy who by their own admission were not in it for the love of it they were in it for the money and would thus could have sold it out from under us at any time.

Wasnt John Main employed by RM or one of his partners?

 

[GBJ]

People hugely underestimate the effect that the hotel and commercial outlets will have on our cashflow situation.

But are you over-estimating what it will do for us? We still don't know how SUFC will benefit from these sources. Ron has kept THOSE specific cards very close to his chest. Isn't that worrying?
RON will benefit. But how much (if any) will he pour back into the club?

Also, if Ron, this property developer who is not a football fan, gets bored of our club, then what's to stop him dropping us like a stone. He picks us and sails off into the sunset, and we're in a very volatile situation, probably worse than rhat we're in now at Roots Hall.

If we slip back to L2, which is on the cards atm, and some time soon, we get the new stadium, "extra revenue" etc yet we stay in L2 for the forseeable future, how long will it take RM to get bored of investing his cash and seeing no returns.

This is the most worrying thing about the Ron Martin. If he rides off into the sun, we're ****ed. Therefore he shouldn't be trusted, and i fail to see how people can have that much faith in him

 

[GBJ]

I know it's a simplisitic outlook but while he's our chairman, the better off he is the better off the club will be........ Hopefully

Again, not necessarily. The club will be better off if RM DECIDES it. It's ALL his money. We're entitled to the square root of **** all.

 

[GBJ]

Has the tenure of RM been that good over the last ten years ? 2 Promotions, a relegation, 2 cup finals, a playoff final, beating Man Utd, drawing at Chelsea. Would you rather be Rochdale ?

These events are nothing to do with RM. Ron is just as much involved in these successfull events as the programme sellers, Doris the tea lady and Brenda the old girl who washes the kits

 

[EastStandBlue]

But are you over-estimating what it will do for us? We still don't know how SUFC will benefit from these sources. Ron has kept THOSE specific cards very close to his chest. Isn't that worrying?
RON will benefit. But how much (if any) will he pour back into the club?

In terms of over-estimating, I take it that we need these extra sources of revenue, like 95% of football clubs, to survive. RM has said as much in the past, that to break even in todays climate we need to be out of Roots Hall and in a fully functional Fossett's Farm.

Also, if Ron, this property developer who is not a football fan, gets bored of our club, then what's to stop him dropping us like a stone. He picks us and sails off into the sunset, and we're in a very volatile situation, probably worse than rhat we're in now at Roots Hall.

I wouldn't say RM isn't a football fan, there would be no reason for him to travel the breadth of the country to watch us. Not many situations are more volatile than us staying at RH at the moment... We're dicing with our financial security. Only a fool would argue that staying at Roots Hall would be more beneficial than relocating.

If we slip back to L2, which is on the cards atm, and some time soon, we get the new stadium, "extra revenue" etc yet we stay in L2 for the forseeable future, how long will it take RM to get bored of investing his cash and seeing no returns.

This is the most worrying thing about the Ron Martin. If he rides off into the sun, we're ****ed. Therefore he shouldn't be trusted, and i fail to see how people can have that much faith in him

This is an extra point of the relocation plans. If the football takes a turn for the worse, so does the football related revenue. The exterior sources won't take such a hit and will provide a reliable stream of income.

The whole source of your argument seems to be "Well, what if RM walks away and leaves us..." and you seem to suggest that ousting RM is the answer which, in itself, would leave us in the very same situation.

Somebody brought up a very good point here earlier that this mystery consortium wanted to make us self sufficient. That's a ludicrously ambitious claim for a club that is haemmoraging money at the moment and one that could only be enforced with the new stadium that, funnily enough, the consortium wanted RM to build and us then pay rent for it.

With Ron, you might love it him, you might hate him or you might not care less, but it's a better the devil you know situation with us at the moment.

 

[Firestorm]

From the accounts to 31/7/97
VJ Chairman
G King (Appointed 19/5/98)
J Main Appointed 19/5/98)

P&L Account Loss 559,581. (1.05M 1996)

Balance Sheet Assets 8.2M
Liabilities 5.3M

Net shareholders funds 2.9M

on 12th September 1996 the value of the assets were reviewed the Value of the freehold and leasehold was increased by 1,740,845 this figures were included in the 1996 accounts

on 12 September 1998 the Training ground was sold to MD for 525,000


From the Next years accounts to 31/7/98

The freehold land and buildings were valued on 26/1/99 at 4M lower by 2,633,491 than the former net book value



I think these extracts show that A
A) The valuation upon which all the "Bought at knockdown price" comments are based on an over inflated property value designed to extract the maximum possible purchase price for the ground and to attract an potential buyer.

Infact if you take the 1999 valuation into the 1997 figures (reduce the Assets by 2.6M (which is still being generous considering not all of the 1997 assets were revalued and that 1996 was the bottom of a property slump with values increasing by a good 20-25% between 1996 and 1996) we would have only been worth 300K .......

B) we were losing money well before MD tookover Our profit in 1994 and 1995 totalled 530K , which considering we made 3.0 M in transfer profits in those 2 years shows the losses we were making.....

 

[GBJ]

In terms of over-estimating, I take it that we need these extra sources of revenue, like 95% of football clubs, to survive. RM has said as much in the past, that to break even in todays climate we need to be out of Roots Hall and in a fully functional Fossett's Farm.

Yep i understand and agree we need extra revenue sources, but as i said, the outlets at FF aren't really ours are they. They're Rons. We only spend money if Ron says.

I wouldn't say RM isn't a football fan, there would be no reason for him to travel the breadth of the country to watch us. Not many situations are more volatile than us staying at RH at the moment... We're dicing with our financial security. Only a fool would argue that staying at Roots Hall would be more beneficial than relocating.

What i meant, was if Ron did **** off, then we'd i) have to start paying rent, which i'd assume would be more expensive than what we're (ment) to be paying now. And ii) we'd have no extra revenue what-so-ever, A more precarious situation than what we're in now tbh

L2 football, reduced wages dross players etc would see us survive at Roots Hall. Of course this is not what we want to be doing though, we all want to see The Blues try and fight their way up the leagues, and if a new stadium is the way to go, then so be it. But it's such a risky way we're going about it. It's like we're walking a tightrope at the moment, and Ron is on th other side helping us across. If he decided to walk off, then we'd fall.

This is an extra point of the relocation plans. If the football takes a turn for the worse, so does the football related revenue. The exterior sources won't take such a hit and will provide a reliable stream of income.

Again, that's Ron's money. Not SUFC's. If Ron doesn't want to plough it into the club, then there's not a great deal we can do about it. To this day, we STILL don't know just how those outlets etc will benefit us. As i said, Ron's holding those cards very close to his chest. That is worrying to me

The whole source of your argument seems to be "Well, what if RM walks away and leaves us..." and you seem to suggest that ousting RM is the answer which, in itself, would leave us in the very same situation.

It's a contradiction i know, but what i'm really trying to say is; I can't believe we got ourselves into this situation, where our future rests in the hands of a property developer, who is here for the sole purpose of making money, and is not even a football fan.

[/quote]

 

[BrettieAngell]

We got ****ed over by way over-spending in our first spell in the CCC and by being locked into contracts we were still paying for in League Two, we were lucky not to go bust and we only survived by selling what assets we had none of that is Ron's fault.

 

[weststander]

These events are nothing to do with RM. Ron is just as much involved in these successfull events as the programme sellers, Doris the tea lady and Brenda the old girl who washes the kits

So Ron didnt appoint Tilly and Brush ? Ok he may have got lucky in appointing them but he still stuck with them, he could easily have got rid of them in the Champoinship season. In these term i would say that Ron had a lot to do with them......

 

[GBJ]

So Ron didnt appoint Tilly and Brush ? Ok he may have got lucky in appointing them but he still stuck with them, he could easily have got rid of them in the Champoinship season. In these term i would say that Ron had a lot to do with them......

IIRC didn't Ron want Nigel Adkins to take over? But it was fan support that saw Tilly appointed, shortly followed by Brushy?

Ron got lucky yes. But thats about as far as it goes for me. Our success is down to T&B plus the likes of Freddy, Goater, Maher, Gower etc If you can say Ron's part of that success for hiring T&B, then Vic Jobson(?) is ALSO part of our success, as he made way for Ron Martin.