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Irate Ian

Members
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
2,070
Has been moved to Fossetts thread. Consider to review.

The initial subject is a general forum subject [financial issue about raising by finance £80 million ], and I do not feel the mods should be moving it from General Chit Chat Forum.


"slicing up of the cake" is not yet disclosed.

SUFC are not [at present] hoteliers, shop owners or landlords of shops and I have doubt that RM will be enabling these revenue streams to enure to the football club, but he has not yet been prepared [or maybe the timing has not been right] to answer or supply public detailed information on these questions/issues.

It may be that SUFC should have additional revenue streams so that the business as a whole is sufficiently diversified, as the perception is that football revenue alone will not be sufficient to enable a commercial rent to be paid and the club to flourish [make a profit], especially when and if the going gets tough [should the unthinkable happen and we be relegated and lead to a dropping off of support].

We have to plan for the rainy days, even though we hope the sun may continue to shine long into the future.

If other revenue streams are not to accrue to the club, borrowing for those parts of the development should not be taken into account when supporters consider the cost of "seats for life" or other fixed periods that may later be proposed.

It stands to reason that if offered a "seat for life" [which can be likened to buying a share in the club], one would not want to be paying also for the building of an hotel/shops in the price !!

How would anyone be able to assess the true cost /comparison on which also a future rent may be based in the lease to SUFC ?

On another thread it has been suggested the building cost of one seat is in the order of £1,600 - £1,800 at to-day's building cost estimation ?
 
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Ian,

I appreciate what you are doing and i am interested in where the money will come from...... BUT why does Ron have to make public where he's going to get the money from ??? The club is a private business to which Ron (or Rons company owns the majority share), would you demand from Tesco's or Currys where the money is coming from to build their latest stores or even from Sainsburys to ask where the money will come form to develop Roots Hall ?? Could you imagine Peter Hill Wood at Arsenal disclosing the intimate financial details of building the Emirates ?? I am sure that if you made enquiries to the Chairman of each of the above you would be given short shrift. I personally think we are quite lucky that Ron throws us the crumbs of information that he does.
The only chance that i will get to ask any questions is at the AGM and i will ask a few but will be prepared for Ron to say he is unable to answer such questions at the moment.

(also posted on the FF board)
 
Ian,

I appreciate what you are doing and i am interested in where the money will come from...... BUT why does Ron have to make public where he's going to get the money from ??? The club is a private business to which Ron (or Rons company owns the majority share), would you demand from Tesco's or Currys where the money is coming from to build their latest stores or even from Sainsburys to ask where the money will come form to develop Roots Hall ?? Could you imagine Peter Hill Wood at Arsenal disclosing the intimate financial details of building the Emirates ?? I am sure that if you made enquiries to the Chairman of each of the above you would be given short shrift. I personally think we are quite lucky that Ron throws us the crumbs of information that he does.
The only chance that i will get to ask any questions is at the AGM and i will ask a few but will be prepared for Ron to say he is unable to answer such questions at the moment.

(also posted on the FF board)


He has already publicised going to USA to meet Morgan Stanley to discuss finance of £80 million.

If this is for public consumption, why not the details of how this will likely impact upon SUFC in the longer term [payment for their occupation etc etc].
 
I don't disagree with either I I's thirst for information , nor Weststander's valid view that this is RM's private business and he does not technically need to disclose anything .

However, I feel that many of us, myself included, are confused as to how the ' business arrangements' between SUFC and the owners of the stadium ( which I believe to basically be RM Ltd ) are going to work , especially if we are going to be called upon to ' invest ' in the project by buying a seat for life . So it would be nice to have an explanation of how RM sees this working from a practical perspective , even if the detail relating to the business itself is not revealed .

In the article that Firestorm dug up the other day on the FF page , it mentioned originally that SUFC would receive 30% of the revenue stream in return for selling the ground . I believe that this went by the by some time ago , presumably because the club did not pay its rent or the substantial interest charges thereon , which was also part of the original agreement .

So some clarification of the current situation would be welcome .
 
i think to be honest irate ian is sticking his nose it where its not welcome. Ron makes more statements then any chairman i know anywhere else and asking where every penny is coming from and going is none of ian's or most of our's business.

Some clarification on the seat for life scheme will no doubt be forthcoming but from what i understand its just an idea at the moment.
 
Ian,

I appreciate what you are doing and i am interested in where the money will come from...... BUT why does Ron have to make public where he's going to get the money from ??? The club is a private business to which Ron (or Rons company owns the majority share), would you demand from Tesco's or Currys where the money is coming from to build their latest stores or even from Sainsburys to ask where the money will come form to develop Roots Hall ?? Could you imagine Peter Hill Wood at Arsenal disclosing the intimate financial details of building the Emirates ?? I am sure that if you made enquiries to the Chairman of each of the above you would be given short shrift. I personally think we are quite lucky that Ron throws us the crumbs of information that he does.
The only chance that i will get to ask any questions is at the AGM and i will ask a few but will be prepared for Ron to say he is unable to answer such questions at the moment.

(also posted on the FF board)

I couldn't put it better myself.

Irate Ian, the more you write on here the more you appear utterly paranoid - this depth of inquisition is simply not normal!

Take a step back, and relax........because at the moment, you are comming across as paranoid and very nosey!
 
In fairness Ian's 'paranoia and noseyness' has reduced and his earlier queries and suspicions re Ron Martin were over the top and following his meeting with RM he admitted they were unfounded.

I would agree with Ian that Ron Martin did promise to send answers to a number of queries and never delivered, and some of the questions asked are pretty important such as who owns the stadium and how much revenue generated from the other streams will go to SUFC and how much to to Ron Martin PLC.

Whether the answers can actually be easily given or not is uncertain but some of the questions being asked Id like to hear the answers to...
 
I couldn't put it better myself.

Irate Ian, the more you write on here the more you appear utterly paranoid - this depth of inquisition is simply not normal!

Take a step back, and relax........because at the moment, you are comming across as paranoid and very nosey!



Maybe I am just impatient - 6 months after asking the questions, to learn the "bigger picture" and "fine detail" of the development insofar as it will impact uopn the financial stability of SUFC into the long future.

Surely supporters/shareholders would like to also know and/or have healthy debate upon & during the process, or are we all content to simply be placed into a position of "fait accompli" [take it or leave it].



RM must have a business plan mapped out for the club, but what is it or are we not entitled to ask the question ?
 
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Maybe I am just impatient - 6 months after asking the questions, to learn the "bigger picture" and "fine detail" of the development insofar as it will impact uopn the financial stability of SUFC into the long future.

Surely supporters/shareholders would like to also know and/or have healthy debate upon & during the process, or are we all content to simply be placed into a position of "fait accompli" [take it or leave it].


RM must have a business plan mapped out for the club, but what is it or are we not entitled to ask the question ?



These are important questions Ian and you and we need to keep plugging away .

I'd like to know what happened to the 30% share of revenue to the club promise that was mentioned in the article Firestorm dredged up . This was made when the ground was sold . I am presuming that it went by the by when the club ( tenant) failed to pay the rent .

I am not suggesting anything unreasonable has been done but would just like to know as a penniless club will be at the mercy of the stadium owner and whilst we have no reason to suspect that RM's intentions are anything other than honorable , he - or his company - may not be our owners in the long run .
 
These are important questions Ian and you and we need to keep plugging away .

I'd like to know what happened to the 30% share of revenue to the club promise that was mentioned in the article Firestorm dredged up . This was made when the ground was sold . I am presuming that it went by the by when the club ( tenant) failed to pay the rent .

I am not suggesting anything unreasonable has been done but would just like to know as a penniless club will be at the mercy of the stadium owner and whilst we have no reason to suspect that RM's intentions are anything other than honorable , he - or his company - may not be our owners in the long run .



Will be doing more than plugging away, as it seems to me that some people on here are running scared of RM and reluctant to grasp the thorny nettle.

Shrimpers Trust should have greater knowledge since it is my understanding representative are invited to "board meetings" it is a little surprising that they are not able to comment in a positive fashion, but maybe they are sworn to secrecy ??

Inability to do so is a cause for concern.


Has it been considered to seek to raise the capital cost of building through supporters viz: Is it possible that £8000 x 10,000 [or other increments] could be raised through supporters and local companies & or public bodies to fund £80M to loan to the current owners/developers to build the arena or some other form of private/public partnership basis ?
 
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Ian, I know you're living up to your name with this lately, but do we need bold and a larger font?! Think I prefered the calm, milder version!
 
Ian, I know you're living up to your name with this lately, but do we need bold and a larger font?! Think I prefered the calm, milder version!


Noted, asphetically disliked by you, will try harder not to make you IRATE. also
 
:D Glad you have a sense of humour anyway!


Yep costs nothing to smile, have a laugh [not much in life is free eh ?] but I take on board your dislikes.......... so I know how to wind you up in future !!!

Keep smiling
 
Ian,

I appreciate what you are doing and i am interested in where the money will come from...... BUT why does Ron have to make public where he's going to get the money from ??? The club is a private business to which Ron (or Rons company owns the majority share), would you demand from Tesco's or Currys where the money is coming from to build their latest stores or even from Sainsburys to ask where the money will come form to develop Roots Hall ?? Could you imagine Peter Hill Wood at Arsenal disclosing the intimate financial details of building the Emirates ?? I am sure that if you made enquiries to the Chairman of each of the above you would be given short shrift. I personally think we are quite lucky that Ron throws us the crumbs of information that he does.
The only chance that i will get to ask any questions is at the AGM and i will ask a few but will be prepared for Ron to say he is unable to answer such questions at the moment.

(also posted on the FF board)


Try asking, for what valid reasons he will not answer the questions he promised to answer six months ago !!

or

Why the need for secrecy or lack of transparency/openness ??
 
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1) he may still be working on the answer
2) he's under no obligation to tell anyone anything except at the AGM, is he?


1. Maybe, but why should he have indicated at my meeting 6.3.2008 that he
would respond to each of the points within a short period. nearly 6
months later ..........zero.


2. Maybe, but why promise and not then honour doing so, or at least
retract the promise if overiding and compelling Personal or Business
reasons arise - may since have occurred ?

Have you ever attended a shareholders meeting ? I have [as a proxy]
and unless you table specific questions on Agenda unlikely to get more
than fudged responses, or non specific [Spin] replies.

Any shareholder can copy or use any of the questions for their own use
if required, for tabling in advance upon the Agenda, for placing with the
Company Secretary.

Depends whether anyone really cares enough or has any concerns of
their own, to take the trouble to do so. It's your club as well, but why
become a shareholder if not passionate enough to ask thorny issue
questions for recording in the Minutes of the meeting ?


Refer to: "Agenda Items for AGM" [Chit Chat Forum posted 24.8.08]
 
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1. Maybe, but why should he have indicated at my meeting 6.3.2008 that he
would respond to each of the points within a short period. nearly 6
months later ..........zero.


2. Maybe, but why promise and not then honour doing so, or at least
retract the promise if overiding and compelling Personal or Business
reasons arise - may since have occurred ?

Have you ever attended a shareholders meeting ? I have [as a proxy]
and unless you table specific questions on Agenda unlikely to get more
than fudged responses, or non specific [Spin] replies.

Any shareholder can copy or use any of the questions for their own use
if required, for tabling in advance upon the Agenda, for placing with the
Company Secretary.

Depends whether anyone really cares enough or has any concerns of
their own, to take the trouble to do so. It's your club as well, but why
become a shareholder if not passionate enough to ask thorny issue
questions for recording in the Minutes of the meeting ?


Refer to: "Agenda Items for AGM" [Chit Chat Forum posted 24.8.08]



Addendum: If any shareholders would consider a proxy in my favour, I would be quite interested to attend the next AGM on their behalf.
 
These are important questions Ian and you and we need to keep plugging away .

I'd like to know what happened to the 30% share of revenue to the club promise that was mentioned in the article Firestorm dredged up . This was made when the ground was sold . I am presuming that it went by the by when the club ( tenant) failed to pay the rent .

I am not suggesting anything unreasonable has been done but would just like to know as a penniless club will be at the mercy of the stadium owner and whilst we have no reason to suspect that RM's intentions are anything other than honorable , he - or his company - may not be our owners in the long run .


OK this gives rise to further questions, now published at: Fossett Forum under thread: Yes [6.3.2008 & The Future] viz lastest update, as follows:


Additional Questions:-


16. Would the current owners be prepared to offer within the proposed lease, either:-

[a] Time limited option to buy the stadium at a fixed and index linked or interest bearing price, [once the final building costs are known] in favour of The Supporters Trust or similar body of supporters.

First refusal to buy the stadium, once built, if at any time in the future they were to consider pulling out/selling ?


and


17. Has it been considered to seek to raise the capital cost of building through supporters viz: Is it possible that £8000 x 10,000 [or other increments] could be raised through supporters and local companies & or public bodies to fund £80M to loan to the current owners/developers to build the arena or some other form of private/public partnership basis ?
 
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