THE ASHES

[Blueronron]

Roy and Root made runs in the semi-final against Australia; Buttler in the super-over; Bairstow and Roy in the sudden death matches v NZ and India. Those were high pressure environments where they came through.

The Ashes though is something else re pressure, it showed when Lyons missed the run out
Most fans would want the Ashes over the WC if push come to shove, nothing worse than losing to old enemy, WC is bad enough but Ashes ........

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The Ashes though is something else re pressure, it showed when Lyons missed the run out
Most fans would want the Ashes over the WC if push come to shove, nothing worse than losing to old enemy, WC is bad enough but Ashes ........

The moment the Lyon missed run out reminded me most of was the South Africa-Australia World Cup semi when Donald was run out.

 

[rigsby]

Roy and Root made runs in the semi-final against Australia; Buttler in the super-over; Bairstow and Roy in the sudden death matches v NZ and India. Those were high pressure environments where they came through.

They were under no pressure what so ever in that semi. Smith was chucking a few pies and Lyon was bowling flat and protecting his figures because the Aussies knew the couldn't win at that stage.

I would expect a 20/20 specialist like Butler to shine for 6 balls. His slap off the back foot straight to cover for an easy catch was one of the worst shots in the ashes.

Bairstow's loss of form as a test match batsmen is alarming and he was on the slide before the Ashes......He is almost at the same level as his wicket keeping.....Shepard and Neame

Roy has not looked like he can play at test level. With clouds closing in and players about to go off the field....You don't need to try and score runs.....And get yourself out

That's the thing with cricket its great team game but your individual performance is all about you........You don't even have the Bond get out of jail free card that footballers have.

 

[Ricky Otto]

They were under no pressure what so ever in that semi. Smith was chucking a few pies and Lyon was bowling flat and protecting his figures because the Aussies knew the couldn't win at that stage.

I would expect a 20/20 specialist like Butler to shine for 6 balls. His slap off the back foot straight to cover for an easy catch was one of the worst shots in the ashes.

Bairstow's loss of form as a test match batsmen is alarming and he was on the slide before the Ashes......He is almost at the same level as his wicket keeping.....Shepard and Neame

Roy has not looked like he can play at test level. With clouds closing in and players about to go off the field....You don't need to try and score runs.....And get yourself out

That's the thing with cricket its great team game but your individual performance is all about you........You don't even have the Bond get out of jail free card that footballers have.

Agree with all of that. I am not convinced at all that Roy is the answer to the opening spot conundrum but I do believe that when you make a decision like that you do need to give a player more than just one series to settle and prove themselves.

Bairstow has to be replaced by Foakes in the next series IMO.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Agree with all of that. I am not convinced at all that Roy is the answer to the opening spot conundrum but I do believe that when you make a decision like that you do need to give a player more than just one series to settle and prove themselves.

Bairstow has to be replaced by Foakes in the next series IMO.

Roy was never going to be the answer opening. It was crazy to expect him to open the batting when he'd never even opened in red ball cricket before. If opening in one-day cricket translates to test match cricket the answer would have been to let Bairstow open anyway.

I think Roy could still have a future in test cricket but it would need to be lower down the order (where there's already an abundance of names) but he, like so many of them, needs a break and then a chance to play some red ball cricket.

England need either specialist white and red ball sides or to reduce the number of matches they play.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Roy was never going to be the answer opening. It was crazy to expect him to open the batting when he'd never even opened in red ball cricket before. If opening in one-day cricket translates to test match cricket the answer would have been to let Bairstow open anyway.

I think Roy could still have a future in test cricket but it would need to be lower down the order (where there's already an abundance of names) but he, like so many of them, needs a break and then a chance to play some red ball cricket.

England need either specialist white and red ball sides or to reduce the number of matches they play.

Has he never opened for Surrey? I genuinely don't know and a quick google doesn't seem to give me an answer. It does seem odd but there must have been something the selectors saw in Roy to make them think he could do the job, perhaps it is one to write off as a bad idea straight away and maybe they have already seeing as he was dropped down the order for the last test.

 

[rigsby]

Agree Roy should be given more games but down the order.......Against some weaker opposition

The problem with endless white ball cricket is that it has made batsmen careless over their test wicket.....Staying in as an opener in a test is far more important than an instantly forgettable white ball game.

Take that stupid shot from Burns the other night. You have given the Aussies just what they wanted and with tails up and a crack at the England skipper....Cummings produces an unplayable delivery first up for Root.

The only thing any young batsmen is interested in is now their strike rate. Yes they will earn money from being able to play shots. But I can never understand why a player who can play shots can't learn to leave some balls alone......After all that's what I specialised in batting down the order for Rayleigh.....So if I can watch a ball go past 5th stump why cant England players.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Agree Roy should be given more games but down the order.......Against some weaker opposition

The problem with endless white ball cricket is that it has made batsmen careless over their test wicket.....Staying in as an opener in a test is far more important than an instantly forgettable white ball game.

Take that stupid shot from Burns the other night. You have given the Aussies just what they wanted and with tails up and a crack at the England skipper....Cummings produces an unplayable delivery first up for Root.

The only thing any young batsmen is interested in is now their strike rate. Yes they will earn money from being able to play shots. But I can never understand why a player who can play shots can't learn to leave some balls alone......After all that's what I specialised in batting down the order for Rayleigh.....So if I can watch a ball go past 5th stump why cant England players.

Andrew Strauss is the one who made England prioritise white ball over red ball cricket. He did that whilst the Aussies introduced the Duke ball into the Sheffield Shield so their players would be better prepared for the Ashes. It's not that surprising when England then win the World Cup and Australia win the Ashes.

I actually think it's fair enough to target the World Cup but the Ashes (which was moved forward for the last World Cup) should have been moved back a year to get back onto the usual schedule. That was a huge mistake.

I'm also not sure Rory Burns is the example of someone not leaving a ball outside 5th stump you're looking for. He's played more red ball matches than white ball, isn't looking to land an IPL contract and was out playing what was, IIRC, a fairly straight ball, not one to be look to leaving.

I'd have had Burns and Sibley opening with the aim of wearing down the Aussie attack before the stokemakers down the order come in. Test cricket is largely a game of attrition. England went hard at Australia on Saturday with Broad and Archer but Australia were able to weather that and then the runs came easier. Stokes weathered the initial storm at Headingley and then went expansive. I'd like to see fewer big drives early on and more defensive pushes to rotate the strike. It's disappointing that we haven't seen more of that as that was Graham Thorpe's game when he was a player. As batting coach that hasn't rubbed off on his charges yet (they've all nailed his predecessor Ramp's game).

 

[rigsby]

Andrew Strauss is the one who made England prioritise white ball over red ball cricket. He did that whilst the Aussies introduced the Duke ball into the Sheffield Shield so their players would be better prepared for the Ashes. It's not that surprising when England then win the World Cup and Australia win the Ashes.

I actually think it's fair enough to target the World Cup but the Ashes (which was moved forward for the last World Cup) should have been moved back a year to get back onto the usual schedule. That was a huge mistake.

I'm also not sure Rory Burns is the example of someone not leaving a ball outside 5th stump you're looking for. He's played more red ball matches than white ball, isn't looking to land an IPL contract and was out playing what was, IIRC, a fairly straight ball, not one to be look to leaving.

I'd have had Burns and Sibley opening with the aim of wearing down the Aussie attack before the stokemakers down the order come in. Test cricket is largely a game of attrition. England went hard at Australia on Saturday with Broad and Archer but Australia were able to weather that and then the runs came easier. Stokes weathered the initial storm at Headingley and then went expansive. I'd like to see fewer big drives early on and more defensive pushes to rotate the strike. It's disappointing that we haven't seen more of that as that was Graham Thorpe's game when he was a player. As batting coach that hasn't rubbed off on his charges yet (they've all nailed his predecessor Ramp's game).

Yes the Ashes should have been next year but that is no excuse for some of the batting we have seen. When I say leaving stuff on 5th stump and beyond, that's just one area where we are weak. What about those shots from Bairstow ( Bank station warning alert) and Butler (nice golf swing) on the 4th day. Archer would be investigated if he was playing for Pakistan with that shot. Broad who has scored about twelve 50's and is on the honours board at Lords for his batting with 169, pushed the bat so far in front of him he looked like he was fending off a wild dog rather than blocking a cricket ball.

Burns is was opening for England to try and save the Ashes with his team on 0. The only thing he needed to do was still be there at close of play. Runs were of no consequence.....Not sure why he decide to do a Steve Smith impression and walk across his stumps when they had a man at short leg. He still could have left it. He could have stayed nice and tight, shown the makers name to the bowler, like any good opener should. But no with his head in another post code he plays an ugly shovel come prod across the line.....Terrible shot for a Sunday number 8 on 0 let alone someone opening on a Saturday in the mid Essex league.....But what we are discussing here is an Ashes decider..

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

well harsh on Burns. He played a poor shot, trying to turn a straight ball into the leg side on a wearing pitch. But he's also our top run scorer this year by playing according to the right way to play proper test cricket. Our team is full of sloggers but Burns isn't one.

I feel sorry for Jason Roy. He's been asked to do something he should never have been asked to do. He's never a Test opener. Just like Moeen Ali is never a Test spinner. Too many players are allowed to get away with whatever they want from 5, 6, 7 and others are forced to sacrifice themselves around that. Even Joe Root, who shouldn't be at three.
The opener in the best form this season is Dom Sibley, he should be at the top of the order. Best middle order player is Sam Northeast, he should be in and around. James Hildreth has been seriously mugged off too.

 

[ESG]

well harsh on Burns. He played a poor shot, trying to turn a straight ball into the leg side on a wearing pitch. But he's also our top run scorer this year by playing according to the right way to play proper test cricket. Our team is full of sloggers but Burns isn't one.

I feel sorry for Jason Roy. He's been asked to do something he should never have been asked to do. He's never a Test opener. Just like Moeen Ali is never a Test spinner. Too many players are allowed to get away with whatever they want from 5, 6, 7 and others are forced to sacrifice themselves around that. Even Joe Root, who shouldn't be at three.
The opener in the best form this season is Dom Sibley, he should be at the top of the order. Best middle order player is Sam Northeast, he should be in and around. James Hildreth has been seriously mugged off too.

And the best keeper and number 7 is Ben Foakes?

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Well lets focus on the positives - we started the summer looking for two openers and by the end it appears Burns has taken his chance and filled one of the spots.
Root moving to number 3 hasn't been a disaster IMO and should be continued with the search for a specialist batsmen to fill the number 4 spot ongoing. Stokes looks pretty set at 5 and then you have Bairstow coming in at the moment at 6. I'd prefer him at 7 if he's going to keep but I'd really prefer Foakes given a proper run in the team at 7 and for Bairstow to battle it out with Roy, Buttler and Pope for number 6.
Jack Leach looks like he is now England's number one spinner and of course Archer has made an instant impact and given the attack much need pace (sometimes)
Broad has bowled superbly all summer and at 33 should be okay for the next Ashes in two years time. Unfortunately, I very much doubt Jimmy will be out there bowling at 39 but that means there's an opportunity for someone from the county game to come through.
I honestly think we are about 3 or 4 players away from having a decent side so not all doom and gloom at all in my book.
Lets be honest though, Australia have been better - bowled better for longer and or course Steve Smith has had one of those series where no one can get the bugger out, in short the man's been incredible.


Note to selectors - when picking your next opener try for one who's played at least one first class game in the last two years and while you're at it, try one that's opened against the duke ball - might have more of a chance. Oh, and take those stupid glasses off, makes you look like a pair of dicks.

 

[Blueronron]

well harsh on Burns. He played a poor shot, trying to turn a straight ball into the leg side on a wearing pitch. But he's also our top run scorer this year by playing according to the right way to play proper test cricket. Our team is full of sloggers but Burns isn't one.

I feel sorry for Jason Roy. He's been asked to do something he should never have been asked to do. He's never a Test opener. Just like Moeen Ali is never a Test spinner. Too many players are allowed to get away with whatever they want from 5, 6, 7 and others are forced to sacrifice themselves around that. Even Joe Root, who shouldn't be at three.
The opener in the best form this season is Dom Sibley, he should be at the top of the order. Best middle order player is Sam Northeast, he should be in and around. James Hildreth has been seriously mugged off too.

Best Ashes post by a mile

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Best Ashes post by a mile

thanks, very kind. Money is in the usual place

 

[ESG]

Well lets focus on the positives - we started the summer looking for two openers and by the end it appears Burns has taken his chance and filled one of the spots.
Root moving to number 3 hasn't been a disaster IMO and should be continued with the search for a specialist batsmen to fill the number 4 spot ongoing. Stokes looks pretty set at 5 and then you have Bairstow coming in at the moment at 6. I'd prefer him at 7 if he's going to keep but I'd really prefer Foakes given a proper run in the team at 7 and for Bairstow to battle it out with Roy, Buttler and Pope for number 6.
Jack Leach looks like he is now England's number one spinner and of course Archer has made an instant impact and given the attack much need pace (sometimes)
Broad has bowled superbly all summer and at 33 should be okay for the next Ashes in two years time. Unfortunately, I very much doubt Jimmy will be out there bowling at 39 but that means there's an opportunity for someone from the county game to come through.
I honestly think we are about 3 or 4 players away from having a decent side so not all doom and gloom at all in my book.
Lets be honest though, Australia have been better - bowled better for longer and or course Steve Smith has had one of those series where no one can get the bugger out, in short the man's been incredible.


Note to selectors - when picking your next opener try for one who's played at least one first class game in the last two years and while you're at it, try one that's opened against the duke ball - might have more of a chance. Oh, and take those stupid glasses off, makes you look like a pair of dicks.

Totally agree with the stupid sunglasses....Ed Smith in particular. Team selection these days should be down to the coach, his assistants, captain and maybe Gilo! Save money on what I can only imagine to be a massive expenses bill for Smith and Taylor's jolly ups?

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Totally agree with the stupid sunglasses....Ed Smith in particular. Team selection these days should be down to the coach, his assistants, captain and maybe Gilo! Save money on what I can only imagine to be a massive expenses bill for Smith and Taylor's jolly ups?

I think the issue is that captain and coaches can't watch any players. It's pretty much all year round for them, they need people to go out and watch and see players in action. The fact they make stupid decisions based on that information is a different issue.
BUT
we've been crap at batting under Cook and Root as captain and across Hales, Lyth, Robson, Duckett, Ali, Stoneman, Roy, Carberry, Jennings (I haven't included good ones like Root and Compton). I think there's more to it than just the captain or selectors are crap. There is something else going on here, and I think it's the coach and/or culture of the team

 

[ESG]

I think the issue is that captain and coaches can't watch any players. It's pretty much all year round for them, they need people to go out and watch and see players in action. The fact they make stupid decisions based on that information is a different issue.
BUT
we've been crap at batting under Cook and Root as captain and across Hales, Lyth, Robson, Duckett, Ali, Stoneman, Roy, Carberry, Jennings (I haven't included good ones like Root and Compton). I think there's more to it than just the captain or selectors are crap. There is something else going on here, and I think it's the coach and/or culture of the team

Totally agree but would have thought in this day and age all the counties will have full video analysis running as with football. Surely they could share this with the England coaches when requested.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Totally agree but would have thought in this day and age all the counties will have full video analysis running as with football. Surely they could share this with the England coaches when requested.

yeah, but there's more to it than that. go to a game and get a feel for it. When is a bowlers having a great spell, does the batsman stick in there? When is the pitch flat by a bowler keeps getting stuck in and doing the hard yards? Things like that might come down to feel more than just watching. I get what you're saying but selection is more art than science

 

[Blueronron]

Please show some fight England today, even if it bores the pants of many people, its 5 days not ODI mode

Thank you

 

[Southminster Shrimper]

Aussies bowling first. 120 all out?