the BIG questions

[SUFCFANS]

where's the money...????????

Freddy money
NOT ALL SPENT ON PLAYERS

TV money from 2008 play-offs
NOT ALL SPENT ON PLAYERS

Gates exceeding 7/8/9 thousand for past 3 season
WE MADE DO WHEN WE GOT 4/5 THOUSAND - IS THE WAGE BILL REALLY THAT MUCH HIGHER??

Share issue
I'M SURE THE BROCHURE SAID 'ALL MONEY TO BE INVESTED IN PLAYERS'!!!???

Bailey money
WHERE THE HELL DID THAT GO?

FA Cup money
YET TO BE SEEN..

Record shirt sales
AND NO LONGER A 10% DISCOUNT FOR SEASON CARD HOLDERS (RANT).

The stadium
GOVERNMENT PLEDGING 20BILLION IN LOANS TO MEDIUM SIZE COMPANIES - ARE YOU IN THE Q RON??

Okay so 4/5 seasons ago Ron was underpinning the clubs finance with that of his other business interests - but I fear now, in these tough times, it's extra money being generated by SUFC may well be underpinning Ron's other businesses...!

The above may be a bit over the top, but there does seem to be a black hole appearing in the balance sheet!!!

 

[Mr. Benedict]

Neither of those are questions, they are statements.

On the question of money, while I was sitting in the stationary traffic on the M25 this evening I'm sure I heard the folks on BBC Essex rumbling on about our wage bill being higher now than it was when we were in the championship.

Perhaps this might be a pointer to why we haven't spent a truckload of money? Or perhaps you'd rather we ended up like Luton or Bournemouth?

 

[Neil_F]

You do realise there are such things as expenses? Football is an expensive business and the money from those transactions hasn't just sat in an account.

You may not have noticed but these are the worst economic conditions for fifty years. There is a complete absence of credit and clubs need to maintain to cash to finance operations. I for one would prefer us not to spend much in this transfer window.

Of course that won't be popular with those who live in a fantasy world and don't understand anything about how a business operates.

We are not going to get promoted this ear no matter how much we spent. I would favour bringing in a couple of players and then some loanees to tide us over and then look to build in the summer.

 

[SUFCFANS]

just touching on your last point re promotion... A lot of fans would be of the view that help is needed to avoid a relegation battle, not a promotion challenge!!

On finance - yes we are in bad times - but for SUFC as a concern, we have never seen so much money / cash flow into the club - these are record cash flows coming into the club, make no mistake.

Gates over the last few seasons our highest for a long, long time. Revenue from player sales - +1m. TV revenue over the last 2/3 seasons alone - our highest ever.

There has to be money available.....

 

[weststander]

where's the money...????????

Freddy money
NOT ALL SPENT ON PLAYERS - No but perhaps used or wages etc ??

TV money from 2008 play-offs
NOT ALL SPENT ON PLAYERS - I think you'll find that there is no TV money for the play off teams

Gates exceeding 7/8/9 thousand for past 3 season
WE MADE DO WHEN WE GOT 4/5 THOUSAND - IS THE WAGE BILL REALLY THAT MUCH HIGHER?? - I understand that the playing staff earn £2million per annum before bonuses
Share issue
I'M SURE THE BROCHURE SAID 'ALL MONEY TO BE INVESTED IN PLAYERS'!!!???
Investing in players could mean the centre of excellence as well as wages could it not ???

Bailey money
WHERE THE HELL DID THAT GO? - 'As with most transfers you only get 50% up front the rest is normally paid over a year or two.' so we havent had it all yet

FA Cup money
YET TO BE SEEN.. 'The clubs have up to 10 days after the tie to settle up, so it will be the end of the week before we see any money'

Record shirt sales
AND NO LONGER A 10% DISCOUNT FOR SEASON CARD HOLDERS (RANT). And as we dont own the shop anymore we only get a royalty for each shirt sold so record sales might not necessarily mean record receipts'

The stadium
GOVERNMENT PLEDGING 20BILLION IN LOANS TO MEDIUM SIZE COMPANIES - ARE YOU IN THE Q RON?? He may well be in the queue but even if he does manage to borrow some, it will have to be paid back with interest and i'm sure the government wont be that quick in hading out the dosh !

Okay so 4/5 seasons ago Ron was underpinning the clubs finance with that of his other business interests - but I fear now, in these tough times, it's extra money being generated by SUFC may well be underpinning Ron's other businesses...! - We still have a balance sheet showing a £2million pound deficit, i 'm sure that Ron is still underpinning the clubs finances and will do until the new stadium becomes reality, and with the credit crunch he will probably be looking for the club to stand on its own feet as much as possible

The above may be a bit over the top, but there does seem to be a black hole appearing in the balance sheet!!!

I'm sure that Ron is being financially prudent so that we ahve a club to support in the yeaars to come. And i still defy anyone to come up with absolute proof that money is not available to Tilly when he gets round to asking for it.

 

[Mick]

Neither of those are questions, they are statements.

On the question of money, while I was sitting in the stationary traffic on the M25 this evening I'm sure I heard the folks on BBC Essex rumbling on about our wage bill being higher now than it was when we were in the championship.

Perhaps this might be a pointer to why we haven't spent a truckload of money? Or perhaps you'd rather we ended up like Luton or Bournemouth?

Well it shouldn't be. We've got hardly any players and most of them are nothing special.

 

[SUFCFANS]

I'm sure that Ron is being financially prudent so that we ahve a club to support in the yeaars to come. And i still defy anyone to come up with absolute proof that money is not available to Tilly when he gets round to asking for it.

If cash is available - then use it before it's too late and we slip further down into danger..! League 2 with the prospect of halving the number of seasons card holders is not 'financially prudent'.

Didn't we just hire a new scout? In no particular order: pull, finger, arse, out, of, your!

TBH, I agree we don't want to end up buying rubbish (when we do spend money) - but this is their job, they should know every player in the country - and have a pretty good idea of which ones would be likely to join a club like SUFC..

 

[Neil_F]

just touching on your last point re promotion... A lot of fans would be of the view that help is needed to avoid a relegation battle, not a promotion challenge!!

On finance - yes we are in bad times - but for SUFC as a concern, we have never seen so much money / cash flow into the club - these are record cash flows coming into the club, make no mistake.

Gates over the last few seasons our highest for a long, long time. Revenue from player sales - +1m. TV revenue over the last 2/3 seasons alone - our highest ever.

There has to be money available.....

Based on what? There may be record revenues but there are also record expenses. If there was a huge pot of money available then what would be the point of not spending it? What exactly would Ron Martin be doing?

You cannot simply guess at the level of available funding based on a selective and one-sided view of the business performance. We'll find out soon enough what kind of funding is in available.

I don't think we are going to get relegated, but obviously many differ from that view. I expected us to finish mid-table at the start of the year and nothing has changed my mind on that. We were slightly over-achieving when we were in the play-offs back in October and we are under-achieving now on this present run. That's my view.

 

[SUFCFANS]

I'm sure that Ron is being financially prudent so that we ahve a club to support in the yeaars to come. And i still defy anyone to come up with absolute proof that money is not available to Tilly when he gets round to asking for it.

Based on what? There may be record revenues but there are also record expenses. If there was a huge pot of money available then what would be the point of not spending it? What exactly would Ron Martin be doing?

You cannot simply guess at the level of available funding based on a selective and one-sided view of the business performance. We'll find out soon enough what kind of funding is in available.

I don't think we are going to get relegated, but obviously many differ from that view. I expected us to finish mid-table at the start of the year and nothing has changed my mind on that. We were slightly over-achieving when we were in the play-offs back in October and we are under-achieving now on this present run. That's my view.

Okay, I have no HARD evidence the club has seen record inflows over the last season OTHER than that of the fact we were promoted to L1/Won the L1 title/ Spent a year in the CCC/ Record season card sales/ Record player sales/Money spinning FA cup run/several full houses inc Man U. inc Donny. Record TV money for SUFC.

Agree no one can guess the level of available funding from a one side view -THE SAME as you can't guess the level of 'non-funding' from your one sided view - THAT'S WHAT MAKES SHRIMPERS CHIT CHAT SOOOO MUCH FUN :)

 

[steveo]

where's the money...????????

Okay so 4/5 seasons ago Ron was underpinning the clubs finance with that of his other business interests - but I fear now, in these tough times, it's extra money being generated by SUFC may well be underpinning Ron's other businesses...!

Maybe Ron needs to pay himself back. At the end of the day its up to him where the money goes.

Maybe he has looked at some of Tillys recent signings and doesnt fancy taking more chances - Reell and Walker in particular.

 

[A Century United]

Maybe Ron needs to pay himself back. At the end of the day its up to him where the money goes.

Maybe he has looked at some of Tillys recent signings and doesnt fancy taking more chances - Reell and Walker in particular.

That HAS to be fishing, surely? :stunned:

Revell and Walker, alongside Moussa, were our best players yesterday.

 

[steveo]

That HAS to be fishing, surely? :stunned:

Revell and Walker, alongside Moussa, were our best players yesterday.

Not fishing ACU, but overall do you really think Revell is worth 150 grand? I know he runs around a lot but 150 grand is a massive sum for us. As for Walker, he had plenty of chances last season and hasnt exactly impressed this year has he?

 

[bishmania]

Re. Wages. Dougie can hardly be on a pittance.

Re. Extra revenue. We need to be leaving some of this in the coffers because it may not always be like this.

There's no point spending the Bailey money in one season (£250k transfer & 150k wages for example) because how do we fund that player's wages for the next season without selling off more players.

I think we need to wait to the end of the window before panicking or slating Tilly or Ron.

Ron has done very good things for this club so let's see what's going to go on in these last ten or so days of the transfer window before jumping to conclusions- I remember a similar conversation last year and we then went and pulled people like Revs, Barney and Mulgrew (who we would have kept had we gone up) out the bag.

 

[bishmania]

Not fishing ACU, but overall do you really think Revell is worth 150 grand? I know he runs around a lot but 150 grand is a massive sum for us. As for Walker, he had plenty of chances last season and hasnt exactly impressed this year has he?

As this thread shows. As a team he played in regularly last season we had much better results.

http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?t=48108

I'm not saying it's going to solve all our problems but I do think he gives us more potency than playing two from Barney, Dougie and Revs - who all generally play with their back to goal.

 

[palexander]

Re. Wages. Dougie can hardly be on a pittance.

I recall the interview when Dougie signed, he said it wasn't about money and in fact it was hardly discussed - he told Ron Martin to put him on what was inline with the clubs other earners...

 

[A Century United]

Not fishing ACU, but overall do you really think Revell is worth 150 grand? I know he runs around a lot but 150 grand is a massive sum for us. As for Walker, he had plenty of chances last season and hasnt exactly impressed this year has he?

Yes, I do. He brings a lot to the team and £150k (if that is what we paid for him) for a player who is consistently one of our top performers isn't over the top.

And a phrase I hate, sorry, is "had plenty of chances". That doesn't really say anything does it? As I recall when Kightly left, there wasn't a mass beating of breasts (despite the subsequent outcry) because he had clearly had "plenty of chances". Walker is young, and thrives on confidence like most players. Given time in a settled team and a bit of decent backing from the stands I think he will do a good job for the club.

 

[Firestorm]

Last nights commentary team on the radio said that they had heard that this season our wage bill has been more than the Championship season of 2 years ago.
They were putting some of that down to the loanees being from bigger clubs

oops sorry, missed the previous post on that subject

 

[Rob1920]

If Ron were not to back Tilly in the transfer market based on his few previous mistakes (and he's made no more than any other manager I would think..), that would amount to a huge vote of no confidence, and I think if Ron had lost confidence in Tilly then he'd be out by now. No point in keeping a manager if you don't trust his judgement. The fact that hasn't happened suggests to me its got nothing to do with Tilly's past signings & all to do with the current economic situation.

If we are around 2 million in debt you can hardly blame Ron in these current circumstances from using most of the money thats come in over the past year to underpin the club. At the end of the day Ron kept us afloat for 4 or 5 dire years in L2 at huge cost to himself, so for anyone to brand him a money grabber is ludicrous.

As others have said, we don't want to be like Bournmouth or Luton.

 

[Firestorm]

As posted on another thread

The Championship season is the last season accounts have been published for.
A game against man u
Gates averaging over 10k..etc etc

Profit that season 1.3M
profits on Transfer activity that season 1.175M
That season our Turnover was 6.8M and costs plus administration was 6.7M

In the season before we made a profit of 191K which considering we had a release of a parent company loan of 1.5M to boost the coffers that would indicate that we made no money in that year . (Turnover 3.7M Costs + Admin 5.1M)

Play off final year

Loss 2K (Turnover 3.8M Cost+admin 3.8M)

Ist LDV year
Profit 83K (Turnover 3.18M Cost + admin 3.1M)

With the exception of the Freddy money (which was realised a matter of days before the end on the accounting period and probably would have been used to underpin a 15-20% drop in attendances in the next season) All of the "Windfalls" were utilised in the current accounting period , We have not been "saving up" a fund for either players or the stadium. we have just been keeping our heads above water

 

[mattytheshrimper]

was talking to a few people last night and were saying they think its a matter of time before peoples frustrations turn towards ron.

theres only so much tilly can do with a limited squad. he needs money now.

im far from an expert but we must be in a better fininacial posistion than previous years.