The Budget - It Didn't Take Them Long, Did It?

[osymandus]

Exactly, the only time that VAT is truly regressive (given the reduced-rate, zero-rate and exempt items) is when the poor spend more than they earn on luxury goods, by buying them on credit.

But as your current "industry " is built on the service industry and everyone having to buy these luxury good's to sustain the economy , the entire system needs's over hauling .

We're talking here about the tax's but this is like saying oh yeah mate your spark plugs needs chaning when some one has shot a hole in your engine . The entire design and the way our economy (not unlike our national and home football style) need to be overhauled ).

Just because we have always done it this way dosnt mean to say it cant be changed.

 

[osymandus]

A very intresting piece in the Independent Today about the budget
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rst-budget-its-wrong-wrong-wrong-2011501.html

By a man who know's far to well about all this - Joseph Stiglitz

And this ladies and Gents ios teh sentance that sum's up not just teh economic issues of teh world but most of teh social
"Then why have we not learned from all that? Because politicians like George Osborne are driven by ideology"

 

[Hotman]

Osy, you're surely not suggesting going back to third world self-sufficiency and barter?

If so, those of us who've made a success of life before will do so again - and it would be the less successful who suffer surely?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

A very intresting piece in the Independent Today about the budget
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rst-budget-its-wrong-wrong-wrong-2011501.html

By a man who know's far to well about all this - Joseph Stiglitz

And this ladies and Gents ios teh sentance that sum's up not just teh economic issues of teh world but most of teh social
"Then why have we not learned from all that? Because politicians like George Osborne are driven by ideology"

I have a copy of his recent book "Freefall".Finding the time to read it would be nice.Thanks for the link BTW.

 

[osymandus]

Osy, you're surely not suggesting going back to third world self-sufficiency and barter?

If so, those of us who've made a success of life before will do so again - and it would be the less successful who suffer surely?

Self sufficiency is making a come back in this country at least , and if i recall hasn't TB just joined a company that is essentially modern day bartering ;).

I think your statement says it all. Don;t think of any method as an extreme absolute . Yes some people are having more allotments , its a level of self sufficiently but its never going to destroy the fruit and veg market. By what criteria do you judge the successful ? Those who emulate your life style ? or those who are either exceed it or replace it (which in practice is what Darwinian evolution is about :D). Why have we created a criteria by where a level of sufficencey and control has been removed and given away , and those who facilitate it are (rightly or wrongly ) admired or lorded .

those who are a success are maybe those who saw opportunity (so as you state would most likely do so again) , but to make what they have they can't have seen anything as being to rigid or absolute to make themselves as you might judge it , successes . And did they make something new that helped alter teh world or simply repeated what came before them to make short term personal gains.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Osy, you're surely not suggesting going back to third world self-sufficiency and barter?

If so, those of us who've made a success of life before will do so again - and it would be the less successful who suffer surely?

You clearly have not read Stiglitz's article in the Independent, which Osy gives a link for.Nowhere in the article does Stiglitz suggest going back to "third world self-sufficiency and barter."
What Stigliz DOES do is provide an excellent critique of the Budget and the current worldwide trend for recessionary rather than stimulus measures to confront the present global economic crisis.
As far as the (so-called)Third World is concerned,Stiglitz is worried that although African countries etc have escaped cutbacks this time ,he feels that there is a strong possibility that foreign aid will be reduced in future spending cuts.

 

[Hotman]

Self sufficiency is making a come back in this country at least , and if i recall hasn't TB just joined a company that is essentially modern day bartering ;).

I think your statement says it all. Don;t think of any method as an extreme absolute . Yes some people are having more allotments , its a level of self sufficiently but its never going to destroy the fruit and veg market. By what criteria do you judge the successful ? Those who emulate your life style ? or those who are either exceed it or replace it (which in practice is what Darwinian evolution is about :D). Why have we created a criteria by where a level of sufficencey and control has been removed and given away , and those who facilitate it are (rightly or wrongly ) admired or lorded .

those who are a success are maybe those who saw opportunity (so as you state would most likely do so again) , but to make what they have they can't have seen anything as being to rigid or absolute to make themselves as you might judge it , successes . And did they make something new that helped alter teh world or simply repeated what came before them to make short term personal gains.

most truly successful people that I know have created something new, or added new value. Those who simply repeat what has come before them have the same as those that came before them.

 

[Hotman]

bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks .

getting tiresome now.

 

[osymandus]

most truly successful people that I know have created something new, or added new value. Those who simply repeat what has come before them have the same as those that came before them.

New innovator is agree and salute , however i suspect the majority have ben those who added new value . The question being what is is the value and who decided it was so , we must also decide what it is that makes them a success (acquisition of commodious and resources ? control of these and social areas ideas ? Altruistic and philanthropy, and then to what scale and benefit . I am talking more of teh impact they would have on their soicety as a whole not just in their market area .
I'm not saying we should have revolutionaries every time , but most i have come into contact with have either short term revitsalised a market commodity (re branded) and resold it.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

getting tiresome now.

How about trying to refute some of the arguments in Stiglitz's article rather than limiting yourself to mindless abuse? :soapbox:
After all he's only a Nobel Prize winning economist and ex-advisor to Clinton.What could he possibily know that you don't? :unsure:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Buget Job losses

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/29/budget-job-losses-unemployment-austerity

Budget will cost 1.3m jobs - Treasury

 

[Napster]

Guardian misleads...

http://order-order.com/2010/06/30/odd-jobbing-from-larry-elliott/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+guidofawkes+(Guy+Fawkes%27+blog+of+parliamentary+plots%2C+rumours+and+conspiracy)&utm_content=Twitter

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Guardian misleads...

Hmm..so the real figure for net job losses will only be 100,000?:sherlock:
I think not.;)

 

[Napster]

Guardian misleads...

Hmm..so the real figure for net job losses will only be 100,000?:sherlock:
I think not.;)

no, you didnt read it properly. There will be a net gain. The private sector will take up the slack of all the non-jobs which Labour made. Still, it's not unlike the Grauniad to cherrypick data to suit their editorial I guess.

 

[osymandus]

It di dmake me chuckle when i heard Cameron read that private sector jobs would actually pick up teh slack and teh Guardian as you state had smooched some figure for tehir headline . What a funny world we are in...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

no, you didnt read it properly. There will be a net gain. The private sector will take up the slack of all the non-jobs which Labour made. Still, it's not unlike the Grauniad to cherrypick data to suit their editorial I guess.

But how on earth is the private sector going to take up the slack when no Government programme has been announced/measures taken which will necessarily lead to economic growth? :unsure:

"What is obvious to everyone is that the bloated public sector payroll is going to fall and a recovering private sector is expected to take up the slack"

This is just a massive gamble which may or may not come off.There is obviously a huge difference here between "is expected to" and WILL.

 

[osymandus]

Sadly like most of these things :( (unless you redo the entire economic structure and actually get peopel like Stiglitz to administer it , and break down teh ideas of leadership and try and build in self responsibility into people)

 

[Rob Noxious]

"Mixing pop and politics ..."

Coming home late last night after a Bob Dylan concert here,(sorry to reinforce the stereotype but it happens to be true)...

Did he play 'Like A Rolling Stone'? I rather like the line (amongst others), "If you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose ..." ;)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Did he play 'Like A Rolling Stone'? I rather like the line (amongst others), "If you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose ..." ;)

Yeah,midway through the set- and everyone around me was singing along to it-despite the fact that he'd cunningly changed the arrangement and it sounded more like a rap song-rather than the original 60's folk/rock anthem.:)