The demise of The Guardian International

[Crabby Shrimper]

but the vast majority of people do not have access to the private sector options and as much as some people would prefer to pay for only what they use if there wasn't a basic standard of health and education provided then the have nots would become a dangerous underclass. For most the state options are the only options and from my experience I've never felt the need to look beyond that despite having 3 children so I am a constant user of these services. Its accident of birth that says that if my children needed private I could find the money to do that but if I couldn't and there was no state option then they would be denied the basic tools to give them the opportunity to make of their lives what they can. I can see no logic in any arguments that would deny someone from birth a health service and an education regardless of their parents' financial position. As a country we invest in those that will be the next generation of workers and though we can debate how well those services are run the fact the vast majority of people are happy to invest in that makes me proud to be British. Well done us for being generally f~cking ace in our attitude towards each other and long may we continue to give each and everyone of us the basic resources to use and flourish or to squander - at least we've all had a chance.

:omg: you mean socialists?




sorry, couldn't resist ;)

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I don't think anyone's suggesting that people shouldn't have an education or healthcare; the debate is over who provides it. You're suggesting the only way is for the state to do so, whereas I'm suggesting that the private sector can play a role in this.

ps Please don't try and evade the swear-filter.

 

[steveo]

I can see no logic in any arguments that would deny someone from birth a health service and an education regardless of their parents' financial position.

Well the logical argument is that it all has to be paid for so as long as people like C are paying plenty of tax there wont be a problem.
However, if it had to be funded by the sort of people you were defending on the Dale Farm thread I don't suppose either woud exist.
This is the thing with a ,of of you lefty types, everyone should have everything they want all the time and the world will be a great place - as long as you can find someone to pay for it all.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

:omg: you mean socialists?




sorry, couldn't resist ;)

apology accepted. I think where an underclass exists they generally have no interest in politics as they are disconnected to society.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Well the logical argument is that it all has to be paid for so as long as people like C are paying plenty of tax there wont be a problem.
However, if it had to be funded by the sort of people you were defending on the Dale Farm thread I don't suppose either woud exist.
This is the thing with a ,of of you lefty types, everyone should have everything they want all the time and the world will be a great place - as long as you can find someone to pay for it all.

not at all, we are talking about the NHS and state education which I don't think many would see as a luxury. If everyone had everything they wanted then I guess the world would be a better place but thats not practical, we are talking here about basics and a certain poster moaning about having to put in for the basics. I don't know what industry he works in but somewhere down the line the masses are paying for a product that he or the people he works with are providing, and if the masses are healthy and educated then they can work for wages to buy his product. None of us are completely independent and the wealth of the nation effects those who are self employed even if the odd person here and there is too blinkered to see it.

 

[Rudi Luftwaffe]

I ****ing hate Polly Toynbe and real Labour supporters must dispair that their party has been hijacked by the likes of her.

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

I ****ing hate Polly Toynbe and real Labour supporters must dispair that their party has been hijacked by the likes of her.

Agreed, I also despise the fact that the Labour Party keep churning out a series of repulsive munters that you'd only shag out of pure spite. I wanna see some sex in my politics, and Labour are leaving me in a flacid funk.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I don't think anyone's suggesting that people shouldn't have an education or healthcare; the debate is over who provides it. You're suggesting the only way is for the state to do so, whereas I'm suggesting that the private sector can play a role in this.

ps Please don't try and evade the swear-filter.

C says Those public sector nob-munchers in standard class on the trains, clutching their Guardian, aren't much better either. Thankfully I don't have to sit near them. Whilst he doesn't explicitly say here that he does not want to pay his taxes if they are going to pay for state education and health I think it is implied in his open hatred of people that work in that sector. So, I think he is suggesting that, which is why I replied to what he said. I agree that the private sector can play a role too but if the end result is people like C sneering at those that don't have that option (or don't see it as attractive) then the question of equality of opportunity arises. Obviously I am from Essex and so is C and the idea of someone from Essex looking down at others is a bit laughable - have you heard us speak? He really sounds like a fish out of water.
With the swear filter I wasn't trying to evade anything, writing a word knowing its going to be filtered seems a bit odd not to just filter it in advance. I was replying to someone whose was referring to whole swaves(?) of people as nob-munchers so minding my language seemed a bit pointless. Apologies if it seemed sneaky, wasn't my intention, I'll let the filter do its work in future (in restaurants I always get the plates ready for the waiting staff, I've been told many times you shouldn't and I have worked for Conran and Nobu but it doesn't change me - I used a similar vibe with the filter 'its my mess, I clean it up'!)

 

[steveo]

not at all, we are talking about the NHS and state education which I don't think many would see as a luxury.

You say its more or less a right that everyone should have free education and health service but however basic, it still has to be paid for.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You say its more or less a right that everyone should have free education and health service but however basic, it still has to be paid for.

so we pay taxes because we were lucky enough to be born in the first world not the third world. You'd think everyone would be happy about that.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Agreed, I also despise the fact that the Labour Party keep churning out a series of repulsive munters that you'd only shag out of pure spite. I wanna see some sex in my politics, and Labour are leaving me in a flacid funk.

I think you'll just have to accept that politics just isn't sexy. To be fair though if you were female or a gay man you'd be unlikely to get over excited about the male politicians. Sexual equality at last, male and female politicians are all munters.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

so we pay taxes because we were lucky enough to be born in the first world not the third world. You'd think everyone would be happy about that.

Yeah, it's great how I see people who are unemployed, yet have a better standard of living than I do, just because they can play the system. Hooray for the first world!

 

[canveyshrimper]

C says Those public sector nob-munchers in standard class on the trains, clutching their Guardian, aren't much better either. Thankfully I don't have to sit near them. Whilst he doesn't explicitly say here that he does not want to pay his taxes if they are going to pay for state education and health I think it is implied in his open hatred of people that work in that sector. So, I think he is suggesting that, which is why I replied to what he said. I agree that the private sector can play a role too but if the end result is people like C sneering at those that don't have that option (or don't see it as attractive) then the question of equality of opportunity arises. Obviously I am from Essex and so is C and the idea of someone from Essex looking down at others is a bit laughable - have you heard us speak? He really sounds like a fish out of water.
With the swear filter I wasn't trying to evade anything, writing a word knowing its going to be filtered seems a bit odd not to just filter it in advance. I was replying to someone whose was referring to whole swaves(?) of people as nob-munchers so minding my language seemed a bit pointless. Apologies if it seemed sneaky, wasn't my intention, I'll let the filter do its work in future (in restaurants I always get the plates ready for the waiting staff, I've been told many times you shouldn't and I have worked for Conran and Nobu but it doesn't change me - I used a similar vibe with the filter 'its my mess, I clean it up'!)

Swathes. :smile: Thesaurus alert.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yeah, it's great how I see people who are unemployed, yet have a better standard of living than I do, just because they can play the system. Hooray for the first world!

There will be the odd person that 'beats the system' but the fact that the Daily Mail make big news out of 'unemployed family living in 6 bedroom house in Highgate' means that it is a rarity, or it wouldn't be news. Most who are on benefits will be living in poverty. At the other end of the scale there are those whose accountants help them to avoid paying tax or claim not to live here. I've worked with countless people who worked for the same company as me doing the same job as me but registerd as self employed as a tax dodge. There are always was round everything, I'm happy to pay my way and shame on those who aren't.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Swathes. :smile: Thesaurus alert.

thanks for that, I asked spellcheck and it said 'dunno what you are trying to say'.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Swathes. :smile: Thesaurus alert.

tell you what though, you can see what I mean about the accent!

 

[enfieldblue]

just remembered this from uni - one of the main reasons against universal education was it was feared by the ruling classes that it would educate the masses above their station (sic) also lyon payfair at the great exibition of 1851 was stating that we wern't educating the workforce enough - not much changes huh

 

[Hotman]

C says Those public sector nob-munchers in standard class on the trains, clutching their Guardian, aren't much better either. Thankfully I don't have to sit near them. Whilst he doesn't explicitly say here that he does not want to pay his taxes if they are going to pay for state education and health I think it is implied in his open hatred of people that work in that sector.

2+2=5, clearly. Guessing that's the public sector entry-level nailed. That, and giving a cracking blowie.

So, I think he is suggesting that, which is why I replied to what he said. I agree that the private sector can play a role too

too right - I help many others make a great living for themselves through providing jobs, also therefore putting more than my fair share into the economy

but if the end result is people like C sneering at those that don't have that option (or don't see it as attractive) then the question of equality of opportunity arises. Obviously I am from Essex and so is C and the idea of someone from Essex looking down at others is a bit laughable - have you heard us speak? He really sounds like a fish out of water.

and you sound like a nob-muncher. :net:

With the swear filter I wasn't trying to evade anything, writing a word knowing its going to be filtered seems a bit odd not to just filter it in advance. I was replying to someone whose was referring to whole swaves(?) of people as nob-munchers so minding my language seemed a bit pointless. Apologies if it seemed sneaky, wasn't my intention, I'll let the filter do its work in future (in restaurants I always get the plates ready for the waiting staff, I've been told many times you shouldn't and I have worked for Conran and Nobu but it doesn't change me - I used a similar vibe with the filter 'its my mess, I clean it up'!)

Great work ethic - would you like a job? x