The drugs debate once more....

[Napster]

Naah they were running Windows 7 . I told them Linux would they listen ;)
(i actually cant tell the difference between teh two words ;))

Just bought a Laptop that runs on Linux. So far, so good

 

[osymandus]

Just bought a Laptop that runs on Linux. So far, so good

im running Umbunt 9.10 excellent

 

[Slipperduke]

Ok, lots of issues here, so I apologise for being brief.

1, The booze argument is irrelevant. We're not comparing effects, as if we might take the decision to ban beer and legalise cannabis. We're debating the introduction of something new. Never mind beer, the question is whether society would be better with legalised drugs. I don't believe it would be.

2, I think most people are aware that taking ecstasy is only slightly more dangerous than eating mangoes. What people aren't always aware of is that the 'Summer of Love/Hacienda' generation are all on anti-depressants now. MDMA artifically forces up your happy levels, y'see. It would take some pretty extensive use to do that, but then you'd probably take it more often if it was legal and easily available, wouldn't you? And that's only one drug. The long-lasting effects of the other ones are still anyone's guess.

3, I really don't think that the feeling of criminality is an issue either. If the Government were blood-testing us every morning then it would be, but I'd imagine that most people on this board have tried a drug of some kind and I'd wager that very few of us have been in trouble with the police over it, let alone getting locked up for having red-eyes. It's like the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy of gays in the US military. The government don't know about your illicit puffing and, given the paperwork, they probably don't want to. They'll concentrate on the wider issues, you just keep your spliff-laden head down.

It's really all about that one question. Does society improve with the introduction of legalised drugs? Or, if you like, do we, as a nation, improve ourselves with drugs? Unless you're a biscuit manufacturer, I think the answer is a resounding 'no'.

 

[MK Shrimper]

To answer a couple of your points:

1) It's not new, drugs have been around since a caveman licked a toad and saw pretty colours. I believe society would be hugely better with legalised drugs - crime would plummet, old ladies wouldn't be mugged on the street so a junkie can get their latest fix. Organised crime thrives on the prohibition of drugs - take that away and what?

2) Whatever the affects of MDMA are, I took enough in my past and had some of the greatest nights I've ever had. No violence - just people dancing and having the best times ever. And I'm certainly not on anti-depressants. Quite frankly Slip - and I have massive respect for you -but you should know better than to generalise.

Will society improve if drugs were made legal? Yes. Hugely.

 

[Pubey]

yeah the depression issue is tenuous. legalised/decriminalised MDMA would make it much more easy to conduct rigorous long term studies.

 

[TrueBlue]

To answer a couple of your points:

1) It's not new, drugs have been around since a caveman licked a toad and saw pretty colours. I believe society would be hugely better with legalised drugs - crime would plummet, old ladies wouldn't be mugged on the street so a junkie can get their latest fix. Organised crime thrives on the prohibition of drugs - take that away and what?

2) Whatever the affects of MDMA are, I took enough in my past and had some of the greatest nights I've ever had. No violence - just people dancing and having the best times ever. And I'm certainly not on anti-depressants. Quite frankly Slip - and I have massive respect for you -but you should know better than to generalise.

Will society improve if drugs were made legal? Yes. Hugely.

I have had more MDMA then I care to think about and I have had some of the WORST nights ever

 

[Slipperduke]

1, It is new in a social sense. Unless you're Dutch. And would crime really plummet? People will still want drugs and they'll still have to pay for them. They won't be that much cheaper when the government add the taxes on.

2, I once returned home alone from Scala after a night on pills and 'took matters into my own hand', if you know what I mean. It remains one of my top five shags of all time. When I was with a girl, it was even better. I was an occasional user and I'm not on anti-depressants, neither are any of my friends, but the fact that large numbers of former heavy users are is a concern and I don't think it's a generalisation to bring up a piece of evidence.

 

[Slipperduke]

yeah the depression issue is tenuous. legalised/decriminalised MDMA would make it much more easy to conduct rigorous long term studies.

You'll forgive me if I don't volunteer for that study!

 

[Pubey]

You'll forgive me if I don't volunteer for that study!

however with routine collection of data when patients access health services, you're already participating in long term analysis of any different interventions that you might have required.

if you buy 'legal drugs' from a chemist then there is no reason why that data can't be recorded (it already is for many other illnesses) and over time you'll get a very good picture of whether or not you can attribute depression to some level of use of MDMA/whatever. Then every time the government wants to revisit the drugs debate (or get Nutt to do it) then we have clear evidence to base our policies on... rather than a reasonable picture of the short-run but concerns over the long-term issues. If it carries on being illegal, I don't see how we'll ever get the long-run data we require, and we'll continue with the complete mess that surrounds having a criminal market supplying drugs.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I have had more MDMA then I care to think about and I have had some of the WORST nights ever

Then you took something other than MDMA.

 

[TrueBlue]

Then you took something other than MDMA.

No it was MDMA - I felt all the lightness the feeling of wanting to explode with joy but it made me quiet and reserved having no interest in the football in-front of me - different effect for different people

 

[MK Shrimper]

No it was MDMA - I felt all the lightness the feeling of wanting to explode with joy but it made me quiet and reserved having no interest in the football in-front of me - different effect for different people

Taking an E watching the misery of SUFC explains it :D

 

[TrueBlue]

Taking an E watching the misery of SUFC explains it :D

True very true

 

[Smudger]

2, I think most people are aware that taking ecstasy is only slightly more dangerous than eating mangoes. What people aren't always aware of is that the 'Summer of Love/Hacienda' generation are all on anti-depressants now.

Really????! Who told you that, The Daily Mail???!

MDMA artifically forces up your happy levels, y'see.

No **** Sherlock!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

2, I think most people are aware that taking ecstasy is only slightly more dangerous than eating mangoes.

Mango scare at Columbus Airport

 

[GBJ]

old ladies wouldn't be mugged on the street so a junkie can get their latest fix.

I'm sure they still would. Just because drugs are legal, doesn't make them free....

 

[MK Shrimper]

I'm sure they still would. Just because drugs are legal, doesn't make them free....

Does if they're prescribed by a doctor and administered in a clean, sterile environment.

 

[Napster]

Does if they're prescribed by a doctor and administered in a clean, sterile environment.

and who pays for the prescription? the taxpayer. Why should I pay, please tell me.

 

[MK Shrimper]

and who pays for the prescription? the taxpayer. Why should I pay, please tell me.

Because you're paying (probably) substantially more in the attempt to STOP them taking them via police, courts, prisons, rehab - not not mention the emotional cost to poor ferkers who have been mugged, robbed or burgled.

 

[Slipperduke]

Really????! Who told you that, The Daily Mail???!


No **** Sherlock!

Sunday Times magazine article, if I remember correctly, but I'm sure that either of us could find lots of other evidence out there if we could be bothered to look.

As for the exclamation of surprise, perhaps I should have added that the artificial happy level boost is paid back with interest and that frequent fecking around doesn't help.