The Everlasting Debate

[Yorkshire Blue]

My memory is not astonishingly short. Whelan's successive relegation seasons were, by definition, unsuccessful but I would say the standard of football was far better and more entertaining (for those who can see beyond a result) than much of what was served up at Roots Hall last season. The only season that was up there with Sturrock's dross was probably the one when Mark Beard was our player of the year and Barry Conlon our top scorer with 7, those two facts saying all you need to know about that particular season.

You seem to have forgotten the football we played under Alan Little. Maybe that was more away games, but that made the current side look like Brazil '82.

Each to their own, but Dave Morley wearing clown boots isn't my idea of entertainment.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Is it me or are people just using "hoofball" as a nice peg to hang complaints about our results on ?

Spot on in my opinion.

 

[southchurch]

I have pestered the wee birdie to allow me to answer the minority who still insist on tarring our manager as a hoofball purist.After watching Northampton who are undefeated having adopted a more direct approach and knowing Fleetwood, Oxford, Bradford, Torquay Rotherham and many more have acquired a big target man and have acquired a more direct style I wonder why we have to be a purist team when many Southend teams of the past successfully played with a target man . I am sure there is no need for me to name the players or managers who gleefully gained success with a direct style. I also pleaded with the wee birdie to clear up some of the other criticisms being levelled at him which are out of character and his management style, he is a very professional man and at this time feels it inappropriate to give comment on certain issues, he pleads for everybody to stick together in these difficult times and keep the faith.

OK carry on HOOFING if you love it so much . We will be here next season. You will not.

 

[Ex-Member1]

Football fans are, and will continue to be, totally fickle. Any team winning games rarely has complaints and teams losing always do. It is inevitable that managers of winning teams will be feted whereas those in charge of losers will always get criticism. It only takes a few wins for a manager to go from zero to hero and reverse. Remember this please whilst moaning at the current manager's methods and bear with him, and be nice to him when the results come. Who would want to be an Ipswich Town fan or manager right now? 10 days ago, the man was great, now he is the worst manager ever. So it goes on...and on...and on (bit like me really!) Rant Over, I feel better now.....COYBB

 

[united we stand]

Football fans are, and will continue to be, totally fickle. Any team winning games rarely has complaints and teams losing always do. It is inevitable that managers of winning teams will be feted whereas those in charge of losers will always get criticism. It only takes a few wins for a manager to go from zero to hero and reverse. Remember this please whilst moaning at the current manager's methods and bear with him, and be nice to him when the results come. Who would want to be an Ipswich Town fan or manager right now? 10 days ago, the man was great, now he is the worst manager ever. So it goes on...and on...and on (bit like me really!) Rant Over, I feel better now.....COYBB

In fairness there were a lot of people moaning at the style of play last year , even when we were on our run and top of the league. Therefore moaning now when we are not winning is inevitable and totally reasonable if that is your view.

Personally I think that we were unable to get anywhere near a settled team in pre season and that has a lot to do with our current issues. Once we get through the transfer window, Smith starts to play and Sturrocks susses out his best team we will zoom up the league. What's the point in supporting if you can't dream. I understand all the doom and gloom, but I have enough of that at work- stay positive !

 

[Kris]

My memory is not astonishingly short. Whelan's successive relegation seasons were, by definition, unsuccessful but I would say the standard of football was far better and more entertaining (for those who can see beyond a result) than much of what was served up at Roots Hall last season. The only season that was up there with Sturrock's dross was probably the one when Mark Beard was our player of the year and Barry Conlon our top scorer with 7, those two facts saying all you need to know about that particular season.

The standard of football was better by default because we were playing at a higher level and against more attractive opposition. However, I don't see a great difference in our style of play. Admittedly I didn't go to many games in the Whelan/Martin eras but from what I did see our tactics were predominantly hoofball-like; diagonal balls from our full-backs to Jeroen Boere with the rest feeding off any scraps. Not exactly riveting stuff.

 

[A Century United]

My memory is not astonishingly short. Whelan's successive relegation seasons were, by definition, unsuccessful but I would say the standard of football was far better and more entertaining (for those who can see beyond a result) than much of what was served up at Roots Hall last season. The only season that was up there with Sturrock's dross was probably the one when Mark Beard was our player of the year and Barry Conlon our top scorer with 7, those two facts saying all you need to know about that particular season.

This will always be a matter of opinion, but the uninspiring, unimaginative, dross that Whelan's teams served up will always be a low point in my SUFC supporting history. Far lower than getting 83 points last season, for sure.

PS - Thanks for the patronising "Those who can see beyond a result". I bow to your superior judgement, but I would say that I prefer securing the survival of the club by "uninspiring" football to seeing our demise to the backdrop of the "beautiful game".

 

[C C Csiders]

This will always be a matter of opinion, but the uninspiring, unimaginative, dross that Whelan's teams served up will always be a low point in my SUFC supporting history. Far lower than getting 83 points last season, for sure.

PS - Thanks for the patronising "Those who can see beyond a result". I bow to your superior judgement, but I would say that I prefer securing the survival of the club by "uninspiring" football to seeing our demise to the backdrop of the "beautiful game".

Just to correct we did not have successive relegations under Whelan. His first season as amanager we performed creditably in the Championship - even flirting for a short time wih the play-off's - playing some excellent football with the likes of Marsh and Byrne. The second season we did perform hopelessly and were relegated, after which Whelan was replaced - having been on gardening leave after a set-to at Maine Road. We were then relegated under the abject Alvin Martian the following season.

 

[Beefy]

We played some ok stuff in that first year under Whelan but a lot of the tactics were very direct with balls being played over the top of defenders for Dave Regis to run onto.

We did well that year although it helped having the best keeper in the division playing in the form of his life.

Lets be honest - Tilly is the reason we have these debates. Whilst I'd read in the Official History of the Blues that back in the day we were renowned as a passing team I certainly had never seen it in my time of supporting the Club until Tilson came along.

 

[A Century United]

We played some ok stuff in that first year under Whelan but a lot of the tactics were very direct with balls being played over the top of defenders for Dave Regis to run onto.

We did well that year although it helped having the best keeper in the division playing in the form of his life.

Lets be honest - Tilly is the reason we have these debates. Whilst I'd read in the Official History of the Blues that back in the day we were renowned as a passing team I certainly had never seen it in my time of supporting the Club until Tilson came along.

And for a man who liked passing football, he seemed very keen to bring in and play off a target man, only thwarted by the disdain of the fans.

What I do wonder is if Luggy would be met with such dislike from some if he had replaced Little, Martin, or Wignall rather than Tilly n Brush?

 

[Angell Delight]

I think the vast majority of us do trust Luggy to decide on the quickest way to get out of this league, we'd be stupid to ignore his track record and no-one can doubt we made big progress last season. Obviously in an ideal world we'd all love to do a Swindon/Crewe/Crawley etc and get into L1 the pretty way but maybe we don't have the players for that. If it's a choice between getting up playing direct football (notice I say direct not hoofball, lots of teams at this level play up to a targetman and then play football from there) and staying down trying to play like Barcelona then I'm all for option 1. With the finances allegedly the way they are I'd be very surprised if it's not imperative we win promotion this year.....how we do it is a very distant afterthought.

 

[Norwichshrimper]

I think the vast majority of us do trust Luggy to decide on the quickest way to get out of this league, we'd be stupid to ignore his track record and no-one can doubt we made big progress last season. Obviously in an ideal world we'd all love to do a Swindon/Crewe/Crawley etc and get into L1 the pretty way but maybe we don't have the players for that. If it's a choice between getting up playing direct football (notice I say direct not hoofball, lots of teams at this level play up to a targetman and then play football from there) and staying down trying to play like Barcelona then I'm all for option 1. With the finances allegedly the way they are I'd be very surprised if it's not imperative we win promotion this year.....how we do it is a very distant afterthought.

Quickest way out of this league is simple.....keep doing what we are doing....1 point every 3 games and we'll be out of this league soon after christmas!

 

[Angell Delight]

Quickest way out of this league is simple.....keep doing what we are doing....1 point every 3 games and we'll be out of this league soon after christmas!

Now come on, we're playing way below ourselves with regards the points tally after 3 games. With this group of players (even if a couple are sold before the deadline) we'll start climbing the table soon enough. :thumbsup:

 

[Nemesis]

Just to correct we did not have successive relegations under Whelan. His first season as amanager we performed creditably in the Championship - even flirting for a short time wih the play-off's - playing some excellent football with the likes of Marsh and Byrne. The second season we did perform hopelessly and were relegated, after which Whelan was replaced - having been on gardening leave after a set-to at Maine Road. We were then relegated under the abject Alvin Martian the following season.

Agree with that, Whelan's first season was my second of attending regularly.Some of the football was excellent & we could have sneaked the playoffs until the end of the season got closer & the pub seemed a better option than the training ground!Would have loved to have found out exactly what went on with RW & Jobbo up at Maine Rd, seem to remember there was a "will he, won't he" atmosphere the following Saturday at Roots Hall (think it might have been a Stoke game), with various ever increasing rumours about what went on.

 

[Mick]

PS - Thanks for the patronising "Those who can see beyond a result". I bow to your superior judgement, but I would say that I prefer securing the survival of the club by "uninspiring" football to seeing our demise to the backdrop of the "beautiful game".

Not intended to be patronising, more a response to those who don't care about how entertaining it is as long as we win.

I wouldn't claim superior judgement, merely different, but would agree that dull survival is better than an entertaining demise. However why should survival and entertainment be mutually exclusive ?

 

[Beefy]

As the saying goes - if you want entertainment go to the circus.

 

[A Century United]

Not intended to be patronising, more a response to those who don't care about how entertaining it is as long as we win.

But I think you will find that it isn't purely the winning that is being lauded. If we were going to stay in League 2 regardless, with a minimal difference between the points gained by differing style, who wouldn't vote for pretty football? But we HAVE to get out of this division, and it seems pretty self-evident that Luggy's system is the most likely to do that (and last season was literally a fluke before I get the normal response) so let's just go for what works.

I wouldn't claim superior judgement, merely different, but would agree that dull survival is better than an entertaining demise. However why should survival and entertainment be mutually exclusive ?

If you are Swindon or Crawley they don't have to be. We don't have that luxury, if we try and play pretty triangles all over the pitch we will get found out fast. And as has been said several times now, it seems as if we need to get out of this division quickly or we may well not survive.

It would be nice if just for the rest of this season (or until it becomes obvious we won't go up) all the fans got behind Luggy and the team and let Luggy do what he is paid to do. I firmly believe that a supportive loud uncritical home crowd is worth ten points a season. I say home crowd, because I think that away we already (largely) get that. And in evidence, both fans and management have commented on the boost that has come from having the North Bank back.

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

As the saying goes - if you want entertainment go to the circus.

Apparently there is one in town

You know the rest ... :conductor:

 

[Angell Delight]

It would be nice if just for the rest of this season (or until it becomes obvious we won't go up) all the fans got behind Luggy and the team and let Luggy do what he is paid to do. I firmly believe that a supportive loud uncritical home crowd is worth ten points a season. I say home crowd, because I think that away we already (largely) get that. And in evidence, both fans and management have commented on the boost that has come from having the North Bank back.

This. :thumbsup: I firmly believe that away our fans are among the very best, however the home support is probably as nervous as they come. Having half of the North Bank returned to us (and it was a suicidal decision to give it away in the 1st place all those years ago) has certainly made a difference and I am absolutely certain that if we'd have been in there all last season we'd have kicked off this campaign in League One......