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fbm

Blue tinted optimist⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,046
Location
Cloud cuckoo land
As I usually try and write my view for people who weren't there, I'm going to change it a bit tonight as I guess most will have seen it.  Anyway, we have the rare option of picking it to pieces and dissecting it via video or SKY plus or whatever, so I figured I would just relay my view of the key incidents firstly as I saw it at the game, and secondly as I see it having watched it on video from 4 different angles, in slo-mo and having listened to the pundits comments.

1st goal  My initial view was that it was a bad error by Bart in dropping the ball into the net.

Having seen the replays, I think that he was actually unlucky with that particular bit but made a bigger error in deciding to drop back onto the goal-line and not attacking the aerial ball to try and punch it clear.

2nd goal  My initial view was that it was bad defending by Jupp and Prior which let Vine in and we failed to pick up Howard.  You cannot let the ball bounce when you are defending!

Having seen the replays, I haven't changed my view on the defensive side of things but I think more credit should be given to Vine who did bloody well in a) keeping the ball in play, and b) beating Jupp before laying a perfect pass to Howard who stroked it in rather easily.  Darryl may have saved that one as he is more agile and gets down quicker.  There was a suggestion of handball by Vine but no-one except Prior appealed (not even the fans) so how is a ref meant to spot it?

3rd goal  My initial view was that the bloke was probably onside, mainly because the players didn't appeal.  They generally have an inkling.  Well taken and a good finish.

Having seen the replays it seems he was played onside by Jupp (ignore what Tony the Kray says on another thread - he clearly doesn't know the rules) but Bart went to ground far too early, which made it much easier for Brkovic to go around him.

The penalty appeal  From my unusual view from the East Blacks (I fancied a change) I couldn't really see at the time.  I would have been surprised if the ref gave it.

Having seen the replays, I am surprised the ref didn't give it.  I don’t know if it would have gone in but it was certainly on target!  What are the defenders hands doing up there?

The game generally

During the match I thought Luton showed why they are top of league 1.  The higher you go the more costly the mistakes, and to be honest Northampton should have buried us in the first half a few weeks ago.  The fact that they didn't shows why they are still league 2.

However, in the 1st five minutes and the second half, I thought we gave a reasonable account of ourselves.  We played the more fluent football and got around the back on several occasions, but couldn’t find that killer touch and we had no luck.  The atmosphere in the ground seemed great and would have thought it was quite a good game for the neutral to watch.  When I got home, I asked my wife what she thought of the game.  She was watching ‘cos one of my lads was a ballboy and she thought she might see him.  She said she struggled to stay awake and found it REALLY boring.  So I decided to re-watch it.  

Having watched it I can see what she means.  We never really looked like scoring and the crowd atmosphere didn’t come over at all!  Luton contained us really well, got their foot in faster than we did, chased and harried us all over the pitch and kept every cross out.  They attacked us with pace in the first half and defended resolutely in the second.  A fine performance, and full credit to them.  Still, they are not the average League 1 side and in footballing terms we were not a million miles away.  

Finally, notes of optimism and caution.  Caution first… on January 8th 1977, a Southend team going through a similar transitional period were sitting just 3rd place of Division 4, one point off the top, having been beaten only twice all season and not at all at home.  We had just demolished Aldershot 5-0 at the Hall and had won 5 out of 6.  Our FA Cup 3rd round tie that day was at home against Chester, who were mid table in Division 3 and whose team contained a certain Mr Rush if I recall correctly.  We certainly harboured ambitions of promotion that year and here was an ideal opportunity to see how we fared “punching above our weight.”

Chester took us to pieces and won 4-0.  From there on in the season dropped off alarmingly as the players seemed to realise how far off Division 3 they were.  We lost our next 2 home games and ended up finishing 10th.

The optimistic bit?  That was seen as a “character building” event and the following season we, together with Watford, ran away with the division. We ended up runners up but that was a really good season.

Personally I hope the players confidence is not too badly affected and we can continue to strive for promotion this season.  At least now we can concentrate on the LDV… which, after all, is the only cup we can possibly win!

Ratings:

Griemink – 4.  Woeful.  I have always publicly stated that I prefer Griemink to Flahavan in goal and to be honest, that hasn’t changed.  Yet.  But Darryl IMHO would certainly have made better attempts to save at least 2 of the 3 goals.  I hope this was a one-off game by Bart and that he doesn’t cost us next week at Yeovil.  This just highlights the fact that Bart will save the ones Darryl won’t, and vice versa.  If you could take the best of each keeper, you would have an International.  Take the worst, and you have Emberson.

Jupp – 6.  Weak first half, and I would say partly at fault for the 2nd goal and played their guy onside for the 3rd.  In the second half I thought he was one of the better players and did very well.
Wilson – 6.5.  Gave the ball away needlessly for their third goal.  Plenty of effort.
Barrett – 8.  The only defender I thought to come out with any real credit. Some great tackles and blocks.
Prior - 5.  Not the usual commanding performance from Spinner, at fault (with Jupp) for the second, and generally below par I felt.

Gower – 6.  Skilful, promised much, delivered little.  Powderpuff attempts to win some challenges in the second half and subbed after 80 mins.  Perhaps one day he’ll be fit enough to last a whole game…
Maher – 7.5.  Good, battling performance from Kev against a very strong visiting midfield.
Hunt – 8.  MOM.  Looked even better on the TV than live.  I thought this was an excellent performance from him.
Pettefer – 7.  One of our better performers, keeps going and going and unlucky to be subbed IMHO.

Gray – 6.  Loads of effort but found it much harder against better opposition.
Eastwood – 5.  Sorry Fredy, this was a poor game and as they said on the TV, perhaps a challenge too far so soon in your fantastic start to a football league career.

Subs –

Bentley – 7.  Made a difference and looked hungry.  It wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t start against Yeovil.
Bramble – 7.  Again, looked hungry and tried to make things happen.
Edwards – 6.  Can’t remember him touching the ball.  But it wouldn’t surprise me either if he wasn’t given a run in place of Spinner.  There is something not right in defence at the moment.

A word on Tilly.  At 3-0 down in a cup tie, surely the substitutions should have been made earlier?
 
The cable tv supplier in Malta left a sound feed open in the home dressing room at half time (my accident, I thnk) and all I heard was a livid Tilly saying something along the lines of: "What the f**k was that. f**kin' 'ell... three fuscking stupid f**kin goals!!!"

It amused me when my spirits were down.

They quickly took the sound off.

biggrin.gif
 
LOL adds a nice contrast to Tillys after match report with sky . All pleasent words and yeah lads done well , but by god his body language was muderous .

But the passions there and thast what we respect and believe in the man (and brushy !) for.

Id rather we have this night off , then in the league , and a point about the substitutions , there wasnt really much point was there , our squads too small to go wasting players chasing a three goal lead in a cup competion.

Also the ball incident as 9 (LOL) were kicked on the pitch from behind the south anyone know anything about this
rock.gif
 
Generally agree with you there fbm, 1st goal was Barts fault, second was a handball plus Prior and/or Jupp should have taken control and tw*tted it into the East and the third goal Jupp kept the fella on but Bart went down to easily. Anyways, my ratings are as follows.

Bart - 3 - Shame really, I was quite glad Bart was in goal. Before his injury his inclusion breeded confidence in the back 4, they were able to defend higher up the pitch and he came and collected stuff. This is the first game I've seen him play since his injury and his performance was criminal. What has happened?! At fault for goal one and possibly for the third. Nearly gave another goal away when he tired to control a simple back pass with the outside of his foot, everyone knows not to do that, especially in goal.

Jupp - 5 - At fault, along with Prior, for the second goal and kept their fella onside for the goal. Didn't have a partically good game. I feel, maybe, he is in a comfort zone where he knows he will play come what may.

Barrett - 7 - Looked quite solid. Made a great block before the first goal and in the first 5 minutes was charging up the pitch on a customary run. Looked quite solid and who a lot in the air. The only defender who can come out with his head held high.

Prior - 5 - I thought his experience would be invaluable in a game like this but was more of a liability. His heading was generally poor. At one stage had a free header, recieved the call about it being a free ball from Barrett, then headed it straight off the pitch. At fault, with Jupp, for the second. Although he did make a crucial block in the first half that prevent a shot on target.

Wilson - 6 - He shouldn't be in the side. I feel Tilson needs to make a couple of changes to freshen things up, and one I'd make would be Nicky for Wilson. Looked uncomfortably all game, especially on the ball.

Pettefer - 6 - A normal performance from him really. Worked hard without a end product. Apart from giving 100% I struggle to see what he adds to the side and am still struggling to find a position for him. What would we say his position actually is? He didn't provide any width last night. One plus was he gave Juppy good cover. Another one I'd drop, in favour of Bentley.

Maher - 7 - In the first half he struggled to get into the game. I wasn't impressed but second half he looked better. When the players were rushing things, he was putting his foot on the ball and spreading the play. He seems to be a calmy influence upon the side.

Hunt - 8 - Our best player on the pitch, a real unsung hero in our side. He only got in because of Bentley's suspension but his taken his chance with both hands and will be in possesion of that middle of the park position alongside Maher with some time to come. He was using the ball well and battling all game long.

Gower - 6 - Was disappointed with his performance. He wasn't at his sharpest last night, perhaps his still struggling with that groin injury that forced him off Vs Oxford. If we were going to have a chance of progessing we needed our big players to give big performances, Gower is a big player for us but this wasn't a big performance. Didn't do alot wrong, didn't do alot right.

Eastwood - 5 - His worst performance in a Southend shirt. Looked like a rabbit in headlights. Nothing came off for him all game. Worked hard but just didn't get the rub of the green. Had a couple of half chances and was the only one to force their goalkeeper into a diving save.

Gray - 6.5 - Again, alot of running from Gray but didn't force their goalkeeper to do anything which is disappointing. He works hard, as shown last night, but I think he needs another goal to get him really going again. To be fair to him, their 2 centre half were probably the best centre halfs that Fredy and Wayne will come up against.

Subs;

Bentley - 7 - Changed the game slighty, defiantely wanted the game. He has gotta start Vs Yeovil. When he came on I think his tackle over by the South - West corner flag was probably the first tackle by a Southend player all night.

Bramble - 7 - Our international came on and wanted to make things happen. He got a lot of the ball and used it well. Only managed one shot, from a free kick, which again found the South Upper (When will a Southend player make a goalkeeper work from one?!) I think Tilson should have made this change at half time. Put Bramble on for Jupp and gone with Bentley for Pettefer and gone 3-4-3.

Edwards - Didn't do anything when he came on but didn't have to do anything.

A disappointing performance, I think a lot of them bottled it again live on Sky, mainly Fredy, Che, Bart. Their goals were three defensive mistakes, if we can cut them out we will be there or there abouts come May. Luckly we wont face many teams as good as Luton this season but it just shows the difference in class between top of League 1 and League 2.
 
The balls was the best bit. Was it from the flats behind the goal or people along the road behind/beside the South West corner ... !?

Kev
 
I thought Gower was the only player who looked like he might make something happened. Worked remarkably hard comapred to his typical efforts and tried to take his man on in a way that we haven't seen since last term.

How you can give him six I don't know. I thought he was probably our best man. Don't agree with Barrett being the star performer. He did well in the circumstances but should never have been put up against a much taller and bigger striker. Looked very, VERY nervy with a lot of clearances.
 
Had a day off SZ to get over my depression, but it hasn't worked.

Fair comments I think mainly above fbm & others, unlike on some of the other threads, so I won't go into detail.  The Flavs/Barts debate is really irrelevant as Flavs was injured so we had no other option anyway.  I think it's possible that Bart may not be fit either, but less injured than the others.

We didn't play the flowing football we've seen in the last few weeks due I think in equal parts to the way Luton played & that we froze yet again on a big stage.  IMO it was similar to both Scarboro & Blackpool in that we did so many of the simple things wrong even when we weren't under pressure.  A particular bugbear of mine was the number of times we gave possession away from our own throw ins.

Their keeper had the most atrocious kick off the ground I've seen for many years (Yes worse than Barts, for the Flavs Fan Club) but we didn't even chase in on him.  It would have been yet again a simple tactic, but we let him get away with it.

One little bit of play that also epitomised the evening for me was that after a bout of head tennis near the halfway line the ball looped towards "Freddy" (as it said in the programme) at chest height.  On a normal L2 Saturday he'd have controlled it & used it, but Friday he knelt down & tried to head it & lost it.  Why?  I've no idea.  The Fredy we know & love gets in the box where he can do damage, but Friday Freddy seemed to want to be in the deeper Bergkamp role & for me that's not where we need him.

Overall Luton were decent & in the comfort zone, but we made them look better with some of our defending.  They did to us what we do to Cull Ewe i.e. put us out of our stride early.  We reverted too much to the long ball because of this & didn't play as we can.  

So, no need for mad panic, but we do need to work on some simple things as we've a run of games now which will be make or break for our playoff/promotion credentials.  A decent corner might not go amiss!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ Nov. 14 2004,00:40)]I thought Gower was the only player who looked like he might make something happened.  Worked remarkably hard comapred to  his typical efforts and tried to take his man on in a way that we haven't seen since last term.

How you can give him six I don't know.  I thought he was probably our best man.  Don't agree with Barrett being the star performer.  He did well in the circumstances but should never have been put up against a much taller and bigger striker.  Looked very, VERY nervy with a lot of clearances.
Yes, agreed, Gower looked good and never ever tried to hide.

But I'm struggling to remember one decent ball at the end of whatever he was trying to do. As I said, promised much, some mazy dribbles, some great skill and dummies, and every cross failed to find it's target.

One fair shot straight at the keeper late in the first half.

What else?

Last week he was on fire and there was an end product. This week the end product was missing. Hence the 6.
 
When we went 3 goals down four blokes in front of me got up and left saying they'd had enough.

5 minutes later those balls flew over the South stand.
obviously they wanted to symbolise what they thought of the performance.
 
I think the ratings are hard on Wilson, having watched the game again on Sky he didn't do a lot wrong. Defensively he is a good player and I would include him ahead of Nicolau every time.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (fbm @ Nov. 14 2004,12:04)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ Nov. 14 2004,00:40)]I thought Gower was the only player who looked like he might make something happened. Worked remarkably hard comapred to his typical efforts and tried to take his man on in a way that we haven't seen since last term.

How you can give him six I don't know. I thought he was probably our best man. Don't agree with Barrett being the star performer. He did well in the circumstances but should never have been put up against a much taller and bigger striker. Looked very, VERY nervy with a lot of clearances.
Yes, agreed, Gower looked good and never ever tried to hide.

But I'm struggling to remember one decent ball at the end of whatever he was trying to do. As I said, promised much, some mazy dribbles, some great skill and dummies, and every cross failed to find it's target.

One fair shot straight at the keeper late in the first half.

What else?

Last week he was on fire and there was an end product. This week the end product was missing. Hence the 6.
And yet Pettefer who had very little if any impact on the game gets a 7. Gower worked as hard as he did but is not as quick and tends to get forward more so was not seen pressuring opponents much. For all his running, Petts made very few challenges and just seemed content standing in front of players until they decide to pass it off. The moment when Pettefer was left one on one with their left back on the far side of the box and ended up having to pass it out to Jupp was painful to watch.

Like a lot of people on here, I'm not saying he had a terrible game but if we're going to try and break down a team happy to play deep, we need to have an option who can take people on on either flank. Pettefer's solid but not much going forward. Frustratingly, when he did get in a good crossing position, he couldn't provide the same sort of quality that he showed at Shrewsbury.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ Nov. 14 2004,12:46)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (fbm @ Nov. 14 2004,12:04)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ Nov. 14 2004,00:40)]I thought Gower was the only player who looked like he might make something happened.  Worked remarkably hard comapred to  his typical efforts and tried to take his man on in a way that we haven't seen since last term.

How you can give him six I don't know.  I thought he was probably our best man.  Don't agree with Barrett being the star performer.  He did well in the circumstances but should never have been put up against a much taller and bigger striker.  Looked very, VERY nervy with a lot of clearances.
Yes, agreed, Gower looked good and never ever tried to hide.

But I'm struggling to remember one decent ball at the end of whatever he was trying to do.  As I said, promised much, some mazy dribbles, some great skill and dummies, and every cross failed to find it's target.

One fair shot straight at the keeper late in the first half.

What else?

Last week he was on fire and there was an end product.  This week the end product was missing.  Hence the 6.
And yet Pettefer who had very little if any impact on the game gets a 7.  Gower worked as hard as he did but is not as quick and tends to get forward more so was not seen pressuring opponents much.  For all his running, Petts made very few challenges and just seemed content standing in front of players until they decide to pass it off.  The moment when Pettefer was left one on one with their left back on the far side of the box and ended up having to pass it out to Jupp was painful to watch.

Like a lot of people on here, I'm not saying he had a terrible game but if we're going to try and break down a team happy to play deep, we need to have an option who can take people on on either flank.  Pettefer's solid but not much going forward.  Frustratingly, when he did get in a good crossing position, he couldn't provide the same sort of quality that he showed at Shrewsbury.
Well, that's the beauty of opinions. I am totally in agreement with most things you say about Petts, and would prefer to have someone else there. But I actually thought he played really well on Friday and was unlucky to get subbed.

He is not a wide player, granted. But don't forget, to a certain degree the scores I give are relative.

But who am I anyway? It's only my view... they don't mean anything, and serve only to provoke discussion.

It just shows how people view the same game differently (especially from a different part of the ground!)
 
I found out what happened with the balls. The club got broken into (again!) and they nicked some balls. We heard the alarm going off and then saw Jobbo running around to the tunnel. Must have been quite a few of them doing it, as they came over pretty good. Well done to however done it ...

Kev

laugh.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (The General @ Nov. 14 2004,19:06)]I found out what happened with the balls. The club got broken into (again!) and they nicked some balls. We heard the alarm going off and then saw Jobbo running around to the tunnel. Must have been quite a few of them doing it, as they came over pretty good. Well done to however done it ...
So it was to do with that bell that went off during the first half? We all thought it was a fire alarm! We were all hoping it was as well so the game could be called off and replayed!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Andy_S @ Nov. 14 2004,19:51)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (The General @ Nov. 14 2004,19:06)]I found out what happened with the balls. The club got broken into (again!) and they nicked some balls. We heard the alarm going off and then saw Jobbo running around to the tunnel. Must have been quite a few of them doing it, as they came over pretty good. Well done to however done it ...
So it was to do with that bell that went off during the first half? We all thought it was a fire alarm! We were all hoping it was as well so the game could be called off and replayed!
Exactly what we said as well. I thought it was from the flats, but found out this morning that it wasn't.

Kev
 
Gower takes 43 minutes to register a shot despite having a number of opportunities to do so and people wonder why he has a bad mark ?

The only disagreement with the ratings is for Bart. Came out of the six yard box to command his area on much more than one occassion and gives me much more confidence than any of the alternative choices. OK maybe not a 7 or 8 but 3,4 or 5 is way too harsh.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The only disagreement with the ratings is for Bart. Came out of the six yard box to command his area on much more than one occassion and gives me much more confidence than any of the alternative choices. OK maybe not a 7 or 8 but 3,4 or 5 is way too harsh.

Normally I'd agree with you ORM, and I am a "Bart-preferrer", but he could have done better with all 3 goals IMHO.

Having said that, one long goal kick which he caught just under the bar may well have tested Darryl a little more.

I don't think the back pass thing was down to Bart... no keeper wants to receive a bouncing ball back from the full back.

If Flavs heel is still playing up then he may be more injured than he realises, and we'll therefore have Bart for the foreseeable future. So let's get behind him. He'll probably play a blinder at Yeovil...
 
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