The filesharing debate

[Pubey]

With Lily Allen getting her knickers in a twist... and the FAC (Featured Artists Coalition) looking to stop plans (by who?) to cut of persistent filesharers internet connections... is there a solution? what's the real problem? blah blah blah discuss!!!!

Some interesting articles:

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=36707169&blogId=510114316

http://drownedinsound.com/news/4137...illegally-but-the-girls-shop-around?most-read

http://pitchfork.com/news/36605-featured-artists-coalition-issues-statement-supporting-lily-allen/

 

[MK Shrimper]

 

[EastStandBlue]

I'd happily pay for music if it wasn't stupidly overpriced and, largely, garbage. Nowadays, an Album will consist of 3, maybe 4, singles and 6 or 7 filler tracks... I'm not likely to pay £10 for that. A lot of it isn't even down to the artist, it's down to corporate record labels that put pressure on artists to fire out an album a year, leading to an undoubted drop in quality.

For a while now, the real money in music has been in putting on a decent live show and touring the country with album sales only acting as marketing for the tour.

 

[seany t]

This is a good read too, and an interesting stance to take from the artists / industry's point of view:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/sep/28/advert-filesharing

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

I'd happily pay for music if it wasn't stupidly overpriced and, largely, garbage. Nowadays, an Album will consist of 3, maybe 4, singles and 6 or 7 filler tracks... I'm not likely to pay £10 for that. A lot of it isn't even down to the artist, it's down to corporate record labels that put pressure on artists to fire out an album a year, leading to an undoubted drop in quality.

Seems Ian Astbury has a similar feeling.

“There will be no new album. I don’t think we’ll ever see a Cult album. Albums are dead. The format is dead. iTunes destroyed albums. The whole idea of an album. Albums were established in the 70s and 80s and into the 90s, but they’ve been dead for a long time. Nobody buys albums. It’s been proven. It’s an arcane format, as much as the 78 rpm or writing sheet music for an orchestra. It’s an old form and, for me, it’s much more about if we have a great song we really believe in, then we’ll record it and release it.”

“For me, the idea of making albums is dead. The idea of spending a year and a half in the studio arguing over agendas and trying to fit into a format that’s settled before we started the creative process [is unappealing].”

 

[Pubey]

I'd happily pay for music if it wasn't stupidly overpriced and, largely, garbage. Nowadays, an Album will consist of 3, maybe 4, singles and 6 or 7 filler tracks... I'm not likely to pay £10 for that. A lot of it isn't even down to the artist, it's down to corporate record labels that put pressure on artists to fire out an album a year, leading to an undoubted drop in quality.

For a while now, the real money in music has been in putting on a decent live show and touring the country with album sales only acting as marketing for the tour.

good point well made.

Personally I've made a conscious shift to buy straight from the artist/label if possible (apparently buying a £10 cd from the artist sees them make about £3, rather than a £10 cd from HMV seeing them make 30p).

All these talks about bandwidth/banning internet connections are guff.

You can be using a lot of bandwith and downloading a lot without doing anything illegal. Part of the problem is that unlimited download providers means that it's open for some form of abuse. If broadband pricing was based directly on usage (like dial up/water/gas/electricity etc etc) then it would be more fairer, and then it would mean that downloading music has an indirect cost to it.

Spotify/We7/Lala are all really interesting concepts... streaming in teh future (like garlic bread) as well as cloud memory and other systems which means instant connection to your stuff and content like music and videos... however until artists see money in their pockets from these then the only way to support them, and music, is to go to their gigs and buy their cds/lps and t-shirts from the merch stall

 

[MK Shrimper]

Is it really affecting the artists though? Those who have "made it" (however temporarily) get their dollar by videos on MTV, plays on the radio, live appearances etc. The struggling bands don't fold and give up because a few teenagers download their tracks illegally - it's either because they're not good enough or they don't fit the current music industry bandwagon.

I'd love Lily Allen or that bloke out of Radiohead to name one band/artist that's gone back to the 9-5 because of file sharing.

 

[seany t]

Is it really affecting the artists though? Those who have "made it" (however temporarily) get their dollar by videos on MTV, plays on the radio, live appearances etc. The struggling bands don't fold and give up because a few teenagers download their tracks illegally - it's either because they're not good enough or they don't fit the current music industry bandwagon.

I'd love Lily Allen or that bloke out of Radiohead to name one band/artist that's gone back to the 9-5 because of file sharing.

That link I posted says a lot. The band in question were once in another band (mclusky). They were vaguely popular in the early 2000's.

Their new band Future of the left however have sold 3 times as many records, toured loads more yet have earned 1/2 as much cash due to inflated costs, downloading, etc.

The big bands won't struggle as much, but the ones in the middle ground will.

But at the same time EVERY industry gets squeezed in recessions. My design company is constantly being asked to work for free, and meet stupid deadlines. And sometimes we foolishly do it due to some never-appearing carrot being dangled in front of our faces.

The music industry probably has to change, but I do fear what with this issue, the lack of places to physically get this music and the closing of most of the country's mid-sized venues that the days of smaller bands being able to survive much past their youthful mid 20's is going to be a thing of the past.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I'd love Lily Allen or that bloke out of Radiohead to name one band/artist that's gone back to the 9-5 because of file sharing.

The singer from Iron Maiden is a commercial pilot on passenger flights.

Coincidence?

 

[Benfleet A1]

The singer from Iron Maiden is a commercial pilot on passenger flights.

Coincidence?

Probably, he does it for nothing. True story.

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

The funniest thing about Lily Allen's personal crusade against filesharing was that she lifted one of her blogs, almost verbatim, from Techdirt without so much as a credit. Do as I say, not...

I'd probably have more sympathy if it wasn't for the bloody minded insistence on fighting an unwinnable battle (there's always enough money around for that) rather than exercising a little pragmatism and looking to make the best of the situation by embracing new possibilities for licensing and distribution. I think that most of it comes from the record companies - the more the industry shifts towards providing legal mechanisms for electronic distribution the more apparent it becomes that the role of the middle man can be scaled back considerably, with a greater share of the spoils going to the artist.

 

[Strykr]

The music industry are greedy fools squeezing every last drop out of the consumer, if they'd adapted years ago by dropping their CDs to £5.00 across the board the problem wouldnt at all be as bad.

Cd manufacturing costs (the initial reason for the £15.00 price tag in the 80's) have significantly decreased, costs right across the board have decreased with a wealth of DIY producers, inexpensive pro quality software and outboard equipment, studio time is cheaper, distribution is cheaper. yet CD prices have never really dropped.
the biggest price increase has been videos and promotion, but again the majors have pigeonholed their acts spending vast sums on the 1 male solo singer - 1 female singer - 1 band - etc on their roster.

you only have to look at the $80 million contract handed to mariah carey that was subsequently torn up and bought by virgin for 28 million.

80 million for 1 artist?? think how many musicians/groups that money could sustain. how much new and interesting music that could produce? there are millions of artists/writers all making great stuff that will probably never get heard other then inside their bedroom studios and within their group of friends.

Filesharing is completely ridiculous when you think about it and its astounding that its still so rampant, i agree that the big artists are ok, but everyone else has seen their incomes decrease. imagine working on something for a year of your life, and someone just takes it for free?
similar to someone just coming along and taking your paypacket at the end of the month! the general public dont see the work involved they just see greedy record company fatcats ripping us off, and to an extent that is true,
but i guess thats why its called the music business! music execs at majors (and majors own many indies now!) only see the bottom line.

its disheartening when youve produced something that your proud of to be ripped for nowt! but i appreciate that the profit margins have been so vast for so many years that it softens peoples conscience.

therin lies the problem, instead of the music industry holding their hands up and embracing change, their still cilinging to outdated concepts, not embracing reality, when the reality is an 8 year old with 10000 songs on their ipod can "drag and drop" them onto their mates hard drive!!
it should have never got this far, and excuse the ****iness of this statement, but it completely devalues peoples lifes work and in a lot of cases their heart and souls!

the same applies to the movie industry overpriced DVD's re-releasing the same title on different formats like blu ray with a ridiculous price tag to production ratio, do movie stars need $10 million a film? bollocks do they, give them $1 million which is more then most of us see in a lifetime, and cut the costs of the product!! it wont devalue the product either, any trader would rather sell 10 million units at £5.00 then 2 million at £10.00
the greater audience exposure means more fans - more future sales.

anyway.... the bottom line is when its so damn easy to do, people will still do it!! if there was a way to get free food/gas/electric water. people would do it.

and maybe im old school but i still like the concept of an album, a neat body of work, capturing where the band/artist is at, the sound there making, the sound of their studio, the mood, like a snapshot of time, and a clue to the band/artists progression creating interest and longevity, its a shame that because of itunes you can get an album, listen to it once and drag it to the trash, most of my favourite albums are ones ive persevered with and have grown on me to the extent that they become something great. and catalogue a chapter in my own life whenever i listen back to them.

apologies for the long post, im sure nowone will read it anyway! its just a subject that greatly interests me.

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

For argument's sake, the average price paid for In Rainbows by Radiohead was £4. It's impossible to say for sure whether that figure would be higher or lower for a smaller band, but my far-from-expert guess would be that even after server costs most artists would do quite a bit better from such self-releases than they do through the record companies. The ones who I suppose might stand to lose out are the manufactured acts who require the marketing might of the labels.

 

[Ron Manager]

and maybe im old school but i still like the concept of an album, a neat body of work, capturing where the band/artist is at, the sound there making, the sound of their studio, the mood, like a snapshot of time, and a clue to the band/artists progression creating interest and longevity, its a shame that because of itunes you can get an album, listen to it once and drag it to the trash, most of my favourite albums are ones ive persevered with and have grown on me to the extent that they become something great. and catalogue a chapter in my own life whenever i listen back to them.

Agree 100%

If the album really is dead then that's a crying shame. It's what my whole musical taste is based on. I don't really like compilations, at most I may have a few greatest hits in my collection but often that leads me to go back on buy albums by that artist. However compilations of different artists don't really figure at all, so the whole ipod playlist mix and match doesn't appeal to me. The only reason I'd make up a playlist like that is to play at a party, otherwise I'd much rather listen to an album as a whole body of work.

 

[Pubey]

For argument's sake, the average price paid for In Rainbows by Radiohead was £4. It's impossible to say for sure whether that figure would be higher or lower for a smaller band, but my far-from-expert guess would be that even after server costs most artists would do quite a bit better from such self-releases than they do through the record companies. The ones who I suppose might stand to lose out are the manufactured acts who require the marketing might of the labels.

Also radiohead said they made more money from the in rainbow release than any other album. The disappointing thing was that they still went and released it traditionally as a cd on XL records. They made a big statement that encourages artists to release music themselves, but then bowed to pressure to release it as a cd. At least thom yorke has looked to quickly release stuff as an when he feels like it. I'm a big fan of albums, but thing the EP format is underused and might make a comeback as it's probably an easier way to take a snapshot of where a band is up to (rather than a 2/3 year gap with all the presure of making an album), it also allows bands to maintain a busy touring schedule, as shorter recording times are need.

It'd be a sad day if the album format died a death, but personally I think there is still a future for albums... They can represent a concept and show artistic skill not just in te songs but how they're put together into one coherent piece. The best albums are the sum of more than it's parts

 

[Mad Cyril]

I think being able to buy just the songs you like is great.

I am not interested in 'snapshots' of any 'journey' a band has embarked upon that involves me paying money for s**t album filler tracks.

As for Lilly Allen I wish she would just ****ing shut up and realise how lucky she is to be in her current position.

 

[seany t]

and maybe im old school but i still like the concept of an album, a neat body of work, capturing where the band/artist is at, the sound there making, the sound of their studio, the mood, like a snapshot of time, and a clue to the band/artists progression creating interest and longevity, its a shame that because of itunes you can get an album, listen to it once and drag it to the trash, most of my favourite albums are ones ive persevered with and have grown on me to the extent that they become something great. and catalogue a chapter in my own life whenever i listen back to them.

Agree 100%. But I think in some ways, whenever something that people love gets squeezed it'll still find a way.

eg. Polaroid films mild rejuvenation, vinyl releases.

I reckon some bands will work even harder on the final LP now knowing that it's the only way people will be interested in the physical release.

 

[Moridin]

This whole thing is about a bunch of spoilt rich kids moaning that they're not getting more spoilt or rich.

Hardcore fans are always going to prefer a physical release, with the booklet and accompanying gubbins.

The music industry won't fail because of filesharing, it will fail because of the relentless push of identikit dirge I have to suffer every time the radio goes on in my office.

If a record I liked was easily got hold of, I would more than likely buy it, as opposed to download.

From my point of view, filesharing has actually made some bands more cash from me. I have downloaded more than one album that could not be bought in the UK or mail order of a band I didn't really know much about, leading me to see many live performances and spend at the merch table.

 

[BrettieAngell]

This whole thing is about a bunch of spoilt rich kids moaning that they're not getting more spoilt or rich.

Hardcore fans are always going to prefer a physical release, with the booklet and accompanying gubbins.

The music industry won't fail because of filesharing, it will fail because of the relentless push of identikit dirge I have to suffer every time the radio goes on in my office.

If a record I liked was easily got hold of, I would more than likely buy it, as opposed to download.

From my point of view, filesharing has actually made some bands more cash from me. I have downloaded more than one album that could not be bought in the UK or mail order of a band I didn't really know much about, leading me to see many live performances and spend at the merch table.

Totally spot on mate!

 

[Mad Cyril]

I think Radiohead would sell more albums if they didn't knock out so much tuneless ****.