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The inevitable impact of Covid19

Rona virus impact poll

  • Not had the Rona

    Votes: 16 28.6%
  • Had it and it was flu , more or less.

    Votes: 29 51.8%
  • Had it, still not 100% or it took a lot out of me.

    Votes: 11 19.6%

  • Total voters
    56
It certainly wasn’t. But the WHO’s figures have shown that Sweden’s light touch and refusal to lock down has led to one of the lowest excess deaths figures, because they just kept everything going as normally as possible including treating cancer patients within the normal time frame.

By comparison our excess deaths per 100,000 of population is nearly double Sweden’s. And 1000’s more will continue to die because of the backlog that has built up for urgent NHS treatment.

(I imagine you know) but the Torygraph provides a subscription service only.Not all of us want to partake of even a month's free trial. :Winking:
 
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Well, it’s an interesting discussion. I suspect that Sweden saw many avoidable deaths due to Covid but avoided many others from other reasons. Anyway, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
(I imagine you know) but the Torygraph provides a subscription service only.Not all of us what to partake of even a month's free trial. :Winking:
Just for you. No charge.

 Sweden's Covid strategy appears to have been vindicated


We in Britain should ask whether more lives might have been saved in the round had the Government not enforced a compulsory lockdown


In the early days of the pandemic, the likes of Germany were held up as shining examples of how to deal with Covid. Commentators glibly praised the then-chancellor Angela Merkel’s scientific background, as well as the relatively advanced German testing architecture.


Sweden, by contrast, was deemed almost to be a rogue state. Its public health officials had decided not to recommend a full lockdown, relying instead on voluntary changes to behaviour. They argued that it would take years to see which approach to Covid was the correct one, so it would be better to avoid untested measures. The other consideration was the collateral damage of lockdown: the missed cancer diagnoses, the cancelled hospital appointments, and the lost education.


They appear to have been vindicated. The World Health Organisation released figures yesterday estimating that the true death toll from the pandemic was in fact nearly 15 million, with some countries’ official figures an underestimate. The measure used by the WHO was excess deaths – how many extra people died than would ordinarily have been expected to die, so it includes fatalities caused by, for example, an inability to access healthcare for other conditions. In 2020 and 2021, the global average was 96 per 100,000 people. The UK’s figure was 109, Spain’s was 111 – and Germany’s was 116.


Sweden had just 56 excess deaths per 100,000. Will those who accused its leaders of reckless irresponsibility apologise? At the very least, the research demands that the Covid inquiry in the UK ask whether more lives might have been saved in the round had the Government chosen not to enforce a compulsory lockdown.


D
 
I’ll try not to delve deep into matters I am not even basically qualified to comment on. But one thing I have learnt. Our politicians know **** all about **** all. Any direction that they take us in is for their own advantage and to retain power for as long as possible.
 
I’ll try not to delve deep into matters I am not even basically qualified to comment on. But one thing I have learnt. Our politicians know **** all about **** all. Any direction that they take us in is for their own advantage and to retain power for as long as possible.
I think the article is cherry picking statistics to support a pre determined point of view. It totally ignores statistics, in the same Who report, that would debunk its hypothesis.
 
With the majority of compared figures across the pandemic it is checking "apples v oranges".
There will be some usefulness to the reports and if the other factors are considered especially so, but the headlines are too simplistic.
 
I think the article is cherry picking statistics to support a pre determined point of view. It totally ignores statistics, in the same Who report, that would debunk its hypothesis.
With the majority of compared figures across the pandemic it is checking "apples v oranges".
There will be some usefulness to the reports and if the other factors are considered especially so, but the headlines are too simplistic.
Too deep for me. I’m out.
 
Just for you. No charge.

 Sweden's Covid strategy appears to have been vindicated


We in Britain should ask whether more lives might have been saved in the round had the Government not enforced a compulsory lockdown


In the early days of the pandemic, the likes of Germany were held up as shining examples of how to deal with Covid. Commentators glibly praised the then-chancellor Angela Merkel’s scientific background, as well as the relatively advanced German testing architecture.


Sweden, by contrast, was deemed almost to be a rogue state. Its public health officials had decided not to recommend a full lockdown, relying instead on voluntary changes to behaviour. They argued that it would take years to see which approach to Covid was the correct one, so it would be better to avoid untested measures. The other consideration was the collateral damage of lockdown: the missed cancer diagnoses, the cancelled hospital appointments, and the lost education.


They appear to have been vindicated. The World Health Organisation released figures yesterday estimating that the true death toll from the pandemic was in fact nearly 15 million, with some countries’ official figures an underestimate. The measure used by the WHO was excess deaths – how many extra people died than would ordinarily have been expected to die, so it includes fatalities caused by, for example, an inability to access healthcare for other conditions. In 2020 and 2021, the global average was 96 per 100,000 people. The UK’s figure was 109, Spain’s was 111 – and Germany’s was 116.


Sweden had just 56 excess deaths per 100,000. Will those who accused its leaders of reckless irresponsibility apologise? At the very least, the research demands that the Covid inquiry in the UK ask whether more lives might have been saved in the round had the Government chosen not to enforce a compulsory lockdown.


D
Thanks.I'll send the article on to my mate in Sweden and see what he has to say about it.
 
I returned from visiting family in N.Y on Tues, & watched an interesting item on their main news prog on Mon.
N.Y has now raised the Covid alert to yellow ( presume it was green before? ). Cases are rising again big time, deaths have risen from 4 per day to 15 in last 2 weeks, & masks have been re-introduced on public transport, cab's & going to the theatre.
As for having a fourth jab, over here i believe it's available for all those 75 7 over?. Out there, anyone over 50 can have one.
 
I returned from visiting family in N.Y on Tues, & watched an interesting item on their main news prog on Mon.
N.Y has now raised the Covid alert to yellow ( presume it was green before? ). Cases are rising again big time, deaths have risen from 4 per day to 15 in last 2 weeks, & masks have been re-introduced on public transport, cab's & going to the theatre.
As for having a fourth jab, over here i believe it's available for all those 75 7 over?. Out there, anyone over 50 can have one.

Fortunately ,here in Spain masks are still compulsory on public transport (and I believe in cabs too).Not in indoor spaces like theatres though (only chemist's as far as I'm aware).

You make a good point about the 4th jab.Same situation here atm though I think it might change by the Autumn.
 
Some thoughts from my mate in Sweden on that Torygraph article about Sweden + covid:-( I took the liberty of bolding some parts of the text).

"Sweden vindicated? What a joke. I’m not surprised by anything in the Telegraph any more – here for the purpose of their narrative they fail to mention that Sweden has recorded more Covid deaths than all its neighbours put together: Norway, Denmark and Finland. All of which had lockdowns.



Sweden’s belief that it “would be better to avoid untested measures” even included the use of masks, at a time when 130 other countries round the world were recommending their use. One versus 130 – who did we expect to be proved right?



Yes, much of the onus was indeed put onto the individual. Which was always going to work because Swedes are so compliant. And distance is a part of Swedish life anyway. A not uncommon reaction to being told to keep 1.5 metres apart from other people was – “What? Do we really have to get that close?”



Finally the article gives the impression that we sailed through all this without any disruptions to our freedoms. Wrong. Gyms, sport halls, arenas and other facilities were all closed. No clubbing, no drinking or eating out after mid-evening. No team games etc.



In our neck of the woods it really didn’t make a lot of difference. Life went on much as before

(ps As i've said before my mate lives very much in the SE of Sweden.Not too far from Malmo).
 
I returned from visiting family in N.Y on Tues, & watched an interesting item on their main news prog on Mon.
N.Y has now raised the Covid alert to yellow ( presume it was green before? ). Cases are rising again big time, deaths have risen from 4 per day to 15 in last 2 weeks, & masks have been re-introduced on public transport, cab's & going to the theatre.
As for having a fourth jab, over here i believe it's available for all those 75 7 over?. Out there, anyone over 50 can have one.
Hope you had a good time
You are correct at the moment it is only those over the age of 70 or living in a care home or those with an auto-immune condition being offered the 4th (spring Booster) vaccination.
I am out all day tomorrow doing them but given the recent statement on the efficiency of the 4th vaccine if there was to be a surge of cases the government may consider making it available to who ever would like it
 
In Aldi, Priory Crescent at lunchtime I was only person wearing mask and only person using hand sanitizer. Worrying in that simple precautions are so swiftly dropped by so many when such little effort is required.

I agree, I still wear a mask when I go into my corner shop. I'm starting to feel like a wierdo because no one else does anymore.

I'm thinking about ditching the mask to just fit in.
 
I agree, I still wear a mask when I go into my corner shop. I'm starting to feel like a wierdo because no one else does anymore.

I'm thinking about ditching the mask to just fit in.

The reverse of how it was before when people like me were looked at like walking diseases for not wearing them and most people wore them just to fit in.

Personally I find it nice seeing people's faces again. In my experience it's predominantly elderly people still wearing masks and they're probably doing it to make themselves feel safer, even though we're always told masks are supposedly about protecting other people.

I think it's clear now that wearing a mask and sanitising your hands and trolley when you go to the supermarket is pretty futile. Cases have fallen considerably in the last few weeks, deaths are also down, so ditching the masks clearly hasn't made any difference.

I'm far more worried about the WHO pandemic 'accord' that is being discussed at the moment - although not in the mainstream media, of course.
 
In Aldi, Priory Crescent at lunchtime I was only person wearing mask and only person using hand sanitizer. Worrying in that simple precautions are so swiftly dropped by so many when such little effort is required.
Visited our local CAP (Health Centre) yesterday.Mask wearing there is still obligatory for everybody at all times.Makes sense.
 
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