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ElstreeBlue

Coach
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
601
Location
Elstree
Hi everyone

I've been reading this forum with interest. I'm now ready to make my debut. Firstly, a big thank you to everyone associated with running Shrimperzone.

One thing that strikes me is that most people's views on here are so black and white. So, I'm going to present a balanced view on a crucial period in our club's history that I want to raise. No doubt, someone is going to accuse me of being mad or extreme in my views, but I want to express my views on the Jobson era. From what I've read, Vic Jobson has come in for quite a bit of stick on here.

The point is we are all here on this forum because of Vic. If it was not for him, we would have no club to support. I guarantee it. If this forum was going 20 odd years ago, I may have been the Mel Slack. I saw at close hand how he had saved the club. Literally. But then later, he nearly destroyed all his good work - more on that in a minute, but let's not forget what he did. I repeat: we would have no club to support had it not been for Vic. We should never forget that.

For those who weren't around at the time, the Jobson story started with the Rubin brothers. Again, history has judged them harshly I feel. At the time, I couldn't understand what they were doing to the club. But all they wanted was to get out as quickly as possible. They'd just lost their father at a young age. They were only in their 20s. They ended up with a football club that they suddenly had to control and they wanted to sell. They had to get players off the books to reduce the wage bill to attract a buyer. (Incidentally, I can tell you that they are genuine Southend fans still, but at the time they had to get out.)

Who came along to take over? Anton Johnson. Despite his initial impressiveness, his true colours soon came out. He was so unsavoury that a World In Action programme was made to investigate his business dealings. At that time, there was also the Christmas savers club money theft. Scandalous. (Who helped with refunds? One Robert Maxwell!!) And there was also a man in charge of the market who along with Johnson and their cronies left the club on its knees. The club nearly disappeared out of the football league or, worse, existence altogether.

Jobson - a passionate man - took them all on and, against the odds, won. How he managed to oust Johnson from controlling our club should go down in SUFC folklore. He had several litigation battles against the old regime, and won them all.

But - just like Churchill was a man to win the war but not a man to win the peace - so Vic was the man to save the club but his same characteristics alienated so many people during SUFC's time of "peace". He fell out with so many people - many of whom had helped him.

Make no bones about it - his PR was abysmal. The way he alienated the fans meant we would never get the big crowds that we needed to really progress. He saw that the Blues couldn't progress long-term at Roots Hall. He tried so hard to move us within Southend. But he was blocked by other difficult characters at the Council (people I had first-hand experience of - that could be the subject of another thread). At the time, most fans (wrongly, I believe) didn't want to leave Roots Hall. But moving would have helped the club to ensure its long-term survival - something that most fans now see, 10-20 years on. His comments about Basildon were typical Vic - I personally believe he either did it to call Southend Council's bluff or did it out of frustration because of the dreadful way the likes of Norman Clarke and others on the Council had treated him and the club. I don't think he ever really wanted to move to Basildon, but of course it was Vic's way of doing things - and dreadful PR.

Vic's reputation with the fans was also not helped by his vice-chairman. The less said about him, the better. But how anyone could have gone from being heavily involved in Anton Johnson's team to Vic Jobson's second-in-command in an instant speaks volumes of him.

Vic turned the finances around. He helped build the platform to get us into the second tier for the first time. And then just as something even more special was on the cards, he fell out with Dave Webb! Again, typical Vic. He had managed to attract Webb back for a second time - Webb and Fry saw Vic's passion for the club. He just didn't know how to channel it.

And then, having built the club up, he nearly let the club go back to the wall. As his health was faltering, he let Whelan nearly destroy us with the drinking culture within what I recall was the 4th highest paid players in the second tier! Utter madness! The wage structure as we slipped back down the leagues nearly destroyed us. Then along came the new Dawn and the rest is history.

So, in my opinion, a bit of perspective. And before anyone accuses me of being a pro-Vic extremist, please read again what I've said - I think it's quite balanced. He saved the club and for that we should be thankful. But then he nearly took us down the drain as his health deteriorated. And also, for anyone questioning me, you should know that Vic banned me - along with my 85 year-old grandfather, together with our neighbours (just for being our neighbours) - from getting season tickets and membership cards, just because he had not appreciated the good work my father had done to help him for many years and preferred to pick an argument with him! It was only because of a kind person in the ticket office that we allowed to come to games in without Vic knowing!

One final thought - to those of you who moan about the way things are today, just think (or imagine) what it was like in 1983-4.

Anyone care to share your thoughts?
 
Now that is a first post.

Welcome to the board.

After actually reading it, you seem to have given a very good account of what went on. Being a new supporter, whom wasn't born back then, it's nice to have an honest perspective on the old times.
 
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What a long first post, and what a late time to be reading/writing it!

I do have to agree with you that when we were in trouble with Anton Johnson, Vik was the sort of person that we needed. His problem was that once he had seen that behaviour work he assumed it would always work. Which is plainly didn't.

A couple of things spring to mind about Vik. Firstly, I don't think I know anyone else that could have got £1m out of Ken Bates to save a lowly club like ours. That in itself should go down in history.

Secondly, we also have to remember that Ron Martin wouldn't have anywhere to build our new stadium if Vik hadn't have bought Boots and Laces from Access. You may think that this is a bit far fetched, but I was one of ElstreeBlue's neighbours that was banned from owning a season ticket purely because I lived next door to EB. Because of that I went to Vik's house on a Saturday morning in August to "discuss" this with him. (I've probably bored you all to death with that story before so I won't go on about it again.) During our hour long conversation he said to me that he would get us our stadium through the back door. He said he had already bought the land. When I looked quizzically at him he pointed out that he had bought Boots and Laces and that is where the stadium would be built.

He may have run the club into the ground in the end, and may not be around to see it built, but (should we get the go-ahead next week) we should all remember the part Vik played in getting us this stadium, and maybe even see it as part of his legacy to Southend United...along his dwindling crowds, poor finances and a reputation OBL would be proud of!
 
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Welcome to the board..A very good first post...Factual nope.Vic robbed the club blind,sold all he could and never had his heart in the success for the club ...Thank god he was brought out ....It is not a personal attack on him per sa...but his methods.
 
I remember his one minute's 'silence' was anything but. It's the first time I have ever heard a person abused during their silence!
 
Welcome to the board..A very good first post...Factual nope.Vic robbed the club blind,sold all he could and never had his heart in the success for the club ...Thank god he was brought out ....It is not a personal attack on him per sa...but his methods.

Hi Cricko. Thanks for your welcome - especially as you disagreed with me! The reason I posted was because I felt a lot of people think like you. I wanted to give an insight into the Vic that I saw and not many others did (because he alienated so many fans by his methods). He totally had his heart in the club, and ultimately his heart lost. He saved the club from the sort of people you're describing. But by the end, I couldn't believe what I was reading in the final year's accounts. I fully agree - Thankfully he sold out - would rather it would have been at least a couple of years earlier. Who knows - a couple of years later and what would have been? I remember protesting after the final game of the relegation from the third tier. Have to totally disagree with you over his passion for the club, though - at least for all but the last couple of years or so. No one would have done what he did if he wasn't passionate. Many people would have walked away.

Incidentally, I had an interesting discussion once with an ex-manager off the record a few years back (LondonBlue was there too). He spoke highly about Vic but agreed he was his own worst enemy at times. I'll leave out from here what he said about JA - but you can probably guess.
 
Paul or Jonathan?

;) ;)

Apart from Webb and his team, which VJ did his best to interfere with (especially after we had gone top of the old 2nd division after beating Newcastle convincingly on New Year's day) VJ's reign was nothing other than a fairly depressing, although interesting, period of time in the history of the football club.

Let's not try to rewrite history.

Here's to the future.
 
Hi Cricko. Thanks for your welcome - especially as you disagreed with me! The reason I posted was because I felt a lot of people think like you. I wanted to give an insight into the Vic that I saw and not many others did (because he alienated so many fans by his methods). He totally had his heart in the club, and ultimately his heart lost. He saved the club from the sort of people you're describing. But by the end, I couldn't believe what I was reading in the final year's accounts. I fully agree - Thankfully he sold out - would rather it would have been at least a couple of years earlier. Who knows - a couple of years later and what would have been? I remember protesting after the final game of the relegation from the third tier. Have to totally disagree with you over his passion for the club, though - at least for all but the last couple of years or so. No one would have done what he did if he wasn't passionate. Many people would have walked away.

Incidentally, I had an interesting discussion once with an ex-manager off the record a few years back (LondonBlue was there too). He spoke highly about Vic but agreed he was his own worst enemy at times. I'll leave out from here what he said about JA - but you can probably guess.

I will edit the name JA for reasons of a safe legal board...In those days it was a "Cash Environment"and didn't he take advantage of that ..I won't say Vic didn't try, or at times have a liking for the club...he loved the glamour and in Dave Webb at that time created our highest ever position in the league..Happy days indeed..There was IMO a currupt level below all this and in those days I was an Executive Director of the club.....He was as you say his worst enemy but became the fans worst enemy when people saw through the Rose tinted Glasses he all wanted us to wear.

John.
 
I've said enough times on here before that Jobson's faults massively outweigh his qualities but to me that's the best explanation of what he did for the club when it was on its knees. For that alone I will be eternally grateful. The darkest days in our club's history.

Much of what followed was distasteful to say the least.
 
Hero to villain in such a relatively short space of time. An interesting insight there though.
 
Thanks Elstree Ive always tried to keep a distance on the politics and running of the club...having supported them since the early 70,s ....whatever league or position weve been in .....The way your piece reads i think its not unreasonable to have a stand named after him .... on the pure basis as it were not for him we would not be in the position to (fingers crossed) have our new home built there ..... I guess it was all down to making decisions at the time .... and a lot of supporters only saw the wrong ones ....
 
Thanks Elstree Ive always tried to keep a distance on the politics and running of the club...having supported them since the early 70,s ....whatever league or position weve been in .....The way your piece reads i think its not unreasonable to have a stand named after him .... on the pure basis as it were not for him we would not be in the position to (fingers crossed) have our new home built there ..... I guess it was all down to making decisions at the time .... and a lot of supporters only saw the wrong ones ....

DE - I wouldn't go that far. He nearly destroyed the club by the end of his reign. There are also many other people right from SUFC's inception that have done things which have significantly contributed to the club we support today. Dare I say it - even what about Colin Murphy - had he not discovered Collymore, etc? I'm sure Ron Martin would want a stand named after him too for giving the club a chance when the finances were in such a mess when he took over. How many stands are there? I believe Vic would have been happy to know that a stand or the stadium was sponsored to get more money for SUFC. (He told me he wanted the new stadium to be sponsored, well before any of the other clubs did that for their new stadia).

In my post, I was just trying to give some balance so that we remember the really positive things that VJ did for us and not just recall all his many failings in the way he dealt with many people - not least the fans.
 
I think Elstree has got it about right regarding Vic to be fair. Trouble is lower league clubs for some reason have a habit of attracting ego maniac millionaire chairmen, who havent got where they are by making friends. Vic undoubtedly saved us & gave us 5 fantastic seasons in the 2nd tier, but he also undoubtedly nearly ran us back into the ground. Probably lost focus and interest as his health failed & knew it would be someone elses problem before too long.

I know a Gills nut & Scally sounds like a very similar animal to Vic. He reckon's they're permenantly on the brink of financial meltdown & Scally just makes enemies of everyone.

The big point that comes out of all of this for me, is how so very lucky we are to have Ron at the helm now. Its a shame that a few on here that obviously weren't around in the dark days see fit to knock RM. Personally I think right now we've got a diamond of a chairman & we should count our lucky stars.
 
ElstreeBlue - a top first post, welcome to the Board, and thank you.

I think it is a little bit generous to describe Vic as Churchillian. While Sir Winston may have been a better war-time leader than a peace-time one, I am not sure it would be right to say that Churchill was a bad peace-time leader.

Sadly, there's no doubt that Vic was an appalling peace-time Chairman, especially towards the end of his career - and life, as it transpired.

You're quite right that he initially saved us from going to the wall - and one need only look at what he did to Rotherham before us, and where Scarborough FC are today, to realise how much damage Anton Johnson could have wreaked at Roots Hall had he been allowed to stay.

But was it not a case of simply "out of the fire, into the frying pan"? Yes, we were saved initially... but the damage that was done to us in the Whelan & Chipmunk eras was such that we ended up spending 7 consecutive years fighting against relegation to the Conference. That is this club's longest ever stretch in the basement league, I think - and it was a gruesome one at that, invariably hovering around 17th in the division.

That, ultimately, was Vic's legacy - and as legacies goes, it's a grim one. Vic saved our house from burning down by dousing it with water; but in so doing, almost caused the house to be destroyed by flooding.

And that, IMHO, is how Vic's reign will be judged.

Matt
 
ElstreeBlue - a top first post, welcome to the Board, and thank you.

I think it is a little bit generous to describe Vic as Churchillian. While Sir Winston may have been a better war-time leader than a peace-time one, I am not sure it would be right to say that Churchill was a bad peace-time leader.

Sadly, there's no doubt that Vic was an appalling peace-time Chairman, especially towards the end of his career - and life, as it transpired.

You're quite right that he initially saved us from going to the wall - and one need only look at what he did to Rotherham before us, and where Scarborough FC are today, to realise how much damage Anton Johnson could have wreaked at Roots Hall had he been allowed to stay.

But was it not a case of simply "out of the fire, into the frying pan"? Yes, we were saved initially... but the damage that was done to us in the Whelan & Chipmunk eras was such that we ended up spending 7 consecutive years fighting against relegation to the Conference. That is this club's longest ever stretch in the basement league, I think - and it was a gruesome one at that, invariably hovering around 17th in the division.

That, ultimately, was Vic's legacy - and as legacies goes, it's a grim one. Vic saved our house from burning down by dousing it with water; but in so doing, almost caused the house to be destroyed by flooding.

And that, IMHO, is how Vic's reign will be judged.

Matt

Hi Matt - Thanks. I was not saying Vic was as good as Churchill. Just pointing out that people's characters lend themselves to different scenarios. Used Churchill as an example. He would never have had the legacy that he did had he purely reigned during peacetime. In case there's any doubt, I'm not saying Vic was as good as Churchill. Just using Churchill as an example to show that some characters do well in wartime but do not lend themselves to doing well in other situations when things are calmer. Not claiming to be a historian, but from what I recall learning about Churchill, I thought he was a lousy chancellor before the War and then got voted out after the War ended because his future plan for peacetime Britian was not as popular as the opposition's. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

As for Jobson's legacy, I don't disagree with you. If he'd gone earlier, that would have been best all round (including himself). Maybe a decent buyer was slow to come forward when he wanted out earlier? However, I disagree over blaming him entirely for the dreadful period years that followed. Under all managers before Whelan, Jobson insisted on such a tight ship for wages, transfer fees, etc. Why did that change in his last years? I put a lot of the blame on Whelan (who had no clue how to manage a club like SUFC), and also those around Jobson who did not do anything to stop the mismanagement when his health went downhill. IMHO those combined factors led to what followed. VJ was at least partly to blame, but not solely. Again - like on other threads, we should not have a single scapegoat.
 
but from what I recall learning about Churchill, I thought he was a lousy chancellor before the War and then got voted out after the War ended because his future plan for peacetime Britian was not as popular as the opposition's. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Not wrong, per se, just a little harsh. He wasn't a "lousy" chancellor - he just wasn't a great one, and he was certainly poorly advised. He carries the can for returning us to the Gold Standard - a move that was popular with most economists and media at the time; although, as we now know with hindsight, it made our industry uncompetitive and prolonged the economic depression of the late 20s and early 30s (although, given what was happening globally at that time, was it all really Churchill's fault?).

As for the electoral defeat in 1946... well, Asquith & Bevan rode into power on the back of fantastic policies and promises - many of which they then didn't deliver on. Churchill was promptly re-elected back to number 10 in 1951.

The only reason people think that he wasn't much of a peace-time leader was because he was such a brilliant war-time leader.

:)
 
Have to say this is the most worthwhile thread I've seen on this board for a while as it was an era I wasn't around for and is an interesting insight in to it. Nothing I can add to it really other than that the variance in judgement on RM over the last few seasons has shown how differently the actions and intentions of a chairman can be judged.

As mentioned, it's rarely as black and white as is often suggested.
 
I know he set the ball rolling regarding the building a new ground, and I’ve actually spoke to him once in the players bar after a game.. We complaint the north bank café stopped selling pies… truth to his word they stated to sell them again…

But we lost a lot a true hardcore supporters who voiced an opinion and he was a Chairman not to be missed with…..

He never consulted supporters not like our Ron Martin does just knock down a prized 25000 South Stand to make money and pocked all the big transfer fees i.e. 4Million for Stan the Man just one to think off but many more

The money should be ploughed back into the club and we dropped like a lead weight

He passed away owning millions

The only Benefactors I see are his Heirs of his estate who are very well of people now…. Hope they enjoy Southend United FC money….
 
I know he set the ball rolling regarding the building a new ground, and I’ve actually spoke to him once in the players bar after a game.. We complaint the north bank café stopped selling pies… truth to his word they stated to sell them again…

But we lost a lot a true hardcore supporters who voiced an opinion and he was a Chairman not to be missed with…..

He never consulted supporters not like our Ron Martin does just knock down a prized 25000 South Stand to make money and pocked all the big transfer fees i.e. 4Million for Stan the Man just one to think off but many more

The money should be ploughed back into the club and we dropped like a lead weight

He passed away owning millions

The only Benefactors I see are his Heirs of his estate who are very well of people now…. Hope they enjoy Southend United FC money….

WS - You're right about his PR - appalling. You're right in that he made enemies out of so many people by the way he did things. You're right the crowds suffered because of the way he did things and that hindered our progress.

But you're absolutely wrong about the South Stand - that didn't go into his pocket but was intended to keep the club afloat for a few more years (in fact, the timing of the flat sales was a disaster and went through just as the property market was collapsing).

And where is your evidence that he ran off with the Collymore money? How can he just have got away with doing that? Do you not think the auditors would have noticed? That transfer money kept us going. It was all part of his regime of getting players in cheap and selling on at a profit (which he needed to do even more because of our terribly low crowds - caused partly by his awful PR with the fans). Some of the managers - eg Webb, Fry and Murphy succeeeded in doing that; others couldn't.

Yes - in the last couple of years, it had all gone wrong through financial mismanagement and money going to projects that I believe should have been funded personally rather than through the club - but if he was constantly running off with money like some people are suggesting, how comes the club was still around for 13 years when he took it over in such an appalling state (and especially as gate receipts were so low during his regime)?
 
But you're absolutely wrong about the South Stand - that didn't go into his pocket but was intended to keep the club afloat for a few more years (in fact, the timing of the flat sales was a disaster and went through just as the property market was collapsing).



I agree with you here 100% but if Vic Jobson never had any money in the 1st place to keep the club running why did he buy the club in the first place if he was skint???

there nrthing wrong with him making a few bob like Ron Martin may do

But knocking down the South Bank our magnificent South Stand who was built by hand by Supporters, without consulting supporters than trying to raise the money instead

This was totally wrong and hate to say this KILLED Roots Hall and any chance of us ever wanting to redeveloping the Hall, the place I LOVE !!
 
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