The Negative Thread

[Lord Football]

Oh God. This place. Some of you. Aaaarrrrghhh...... every thread. Everywhere.

So, as some have suggested elsewhere, here is ONE thread where you can moan endlessly about the manager, the age of the squad, Nile Ranger, Anton Ferdinand, lack of a signing, the wrong signing, the player who got away, the lack of a ground... anything you like really. So long as its negative, knocks the club, those who work for it and those who follow it.

Any positive vibes will be deleted without a thought by a moderator (because you know we are all in a clique and have nothing better to do have, having pulled all the legs off all the spiders).

The downside of this (but really, can there be a downside) is you keep the random, off topic **** off threads where your negativity isn't needed nor required.

Consider this as a Christmas Gift from Lord Football, the Christmas Moderator

Happy ****ing Christmas

 

[GrumpyBlue]

Oh God. This place. Some of you. Aaaarrrrghhh...... every thread. Everywhere.

So, as some have suggested elsewhere, here is ONE thread where you can moan endlessly about the manager, the age of the squad, Nile Ranger, Anton Ferdinand, lack of a signing, the wrong signing, the player who got away, the lack of a ground... anything you like really. So long as its negative, knocks the club, those who work for it and those who follow it.

Any positive vibes will be deleted without a thought by a moderator (because you know we are all in a clique and have nothing better to do have, having pulled all the legs off all the spiders).

The downside of this (but really, can there be a downside) is you keep the random, off topic **** off threads where your negativity isn't needed nor required.

Consider this as a Christmas Gift from Lord Football, the Christmas Moderator

Happy ****ing Christmas

Come along stop being logical - this is SZ afterall :winking:

 

[Medway Blue]

Hmmmm, sorry to say I find this a bit silly. It’s a shame to see you give into the screams from the usual lot to shut down expression of opinion. Yes, I know that you’re not shutting down the basic expression of opinion per se, but I don’t think it’s conducive to say “a lot of people don’t agree with your “negative” opinion and get upset when they see it expressed in numerous areas of the message board, so we’re going to lock you in a room so that no-one else can hear you”.

The negativity is as annoying to some as the mindless and optimistic support of the manager and the current situation is to others. But it’s a forum and freedom of expression (including, for the most part, location within reason) shouldn’t be shut down. Unless offensive slanging matches are rife, stop pandering to Rigsby and the like and encourage people to either let things wash over them like brave soldiers, or to use the “ignore” button on the main culprits.

 

[Lord Football]

Hmmmm, sorry to say I find this a bit silly. It’s a shame to see you give into the screams from the usual lot to shut down expression of opinion. Yes, I know that you’re not shutting down the basic expression of opinion per se, but I don’t think it’s conducive to say “a lot of people don’t agree with your “negative” opinion and get upset when they see it expressed in numerous areas of the message board, so we’re going to lock you in a room so that no-one else can hear you”.

The negativity is as annoying to some as the mindless and optimistic support of the manager and the current situation is to others. But it’s a forum and freedom of expression (including, for the most part, location within reason) shouldn’t be shut down. Unless offensive slanging matches are rife, stop pandering to Rigsby and the like and encourage people to either let things wash over them like brave soldiers, or to use the “ignore” button on the main culprits.

Make your mind up.......

 

[AndyT]

Hmmmm, sorry to say I find this a bit silly. It’s a shame to see you give into the screams from the usual lot to shut down expression of opinion. Yes, I know that you’re not shutting down the basic expression of opinion per se, but I don’t think it’s conducive to say “a lot of people don’t agree with your “negative” opinion and get upset when they see it expressed in numerous areas of the message board, so we’re going to lock you in a room so that no-one else can hear you”.

The negativity is as annoying to some as the mindless and optimistic support of the manager and the current situation is to others. But it’s a forum and freedom of expression (including, for the most part, location within reason) shouldn’t be shut down. Unless offensive slanging matches are rife, stop pandering to Rigsby and the like and encourage people to either let things wash over them like brave soldiers, or to use the “ignore” button on the main culprits.

Fair comment 'JTSB'.

Nobody is suggesting that, but there are threads that are appropriate and those that I think aren't.

The main gripe is that the MR&R should be about the match itself, but seems to always drift, often very quickly or right from the very first post, into an opportunity to moan about everything else, other than the match itself.

Yesterday's game is a classic example.

The first few posts bemoaning the manager, squad, application and the like, so reading it, you'd think we had played poorly.

Then the posts start to come in from those who were there and it's a completely different story of a committed performance and maybe not as bad as people think.

There are two threads on a matchday - The Official Match Thread and the MR&R. I'd prefer the former to cover everything on people's views (etc) and the latter to just be about the match itself from those that were there, IMHO.

I do wonder why the MR&R thread, particularly for away matches, is started five minutes after the game has finished. Nobody who saw the match is likely to post that quickly, so why not just let the OMT continue, until people who went to the game return home to give their considered views on what they saw.

I'd rather read 25 posts from people that were there, than 125 including people with long held views giving them another airing. Just me, so apologies.

Just don't like to see the likes of 'Rattus' 'TTS' and 'Massimo' feeling they are unable to post at the moment, as we seem to be slipping ever more regularly into this vortex.

 

[Medway Blue]

Make your mind up.......

I’m not sure why I expected a proper response rather than a childish one like that? Nitpick the way I’ve worded things all you like, I was simply trying to give you the benefit of the doubt by saying that you’ve stopped short of muffling freedom of speech but you’re halfway there by trying to shove us all in a room or move us all on so that you can’t hear us. It’s the equivalent of if I had gone up to the “Boycott Israel” Palestinian protestors on Oxford Street yesterday and said “I agree with your right to express your opinion, but I and the other shoppers here outside Marks & Spencer don’t like it, so can you move on please?”

Can’t we just let the level-headed Mods like Ken and John make decisions like this without throwing their weight around?

 

[Medway Blue]

Fair comment 'JTSB'.

Nobody is suggesting that, but there are threads that are appropriate and those that I think aren't.

The main gripe is that the MR&R should be about the match itself, but seems to always drift, often very quickly or right from the very first post, into an opportunity to moan about everything else, other than the match itself.

Yesterday's game is a classic example.

The first few posts bemoaning the manager, squad, application and the like, so reading it, you'd think we had played poorly.

Then the posts start to come in from those who were there and it's a completely different story of a committed performance and maybe not as bad as people think.

There are two threads on a matchday - The Official Match Thread and the MR&R. I'd prefer the former to cover everything on people's views (etc) and the latter to just be about the match itself from those that were there, IMHO.

I do wonder why the MR&R thread, particularly for away matches, is started five minutes after the game has finished. Nobody who saw the match is likely to post that quickly, so why not just let the OMT continue, until people who went to the game return home to give their considered views on what they saw.

I'd rather read 25 posts from people that were there, than 125 including people with long held views giving them another airing. Just me, so apologies. Just don't like to see the likes of 'Rattus' 'TTS' and 'Massimo' feeling they are unable to post at the moment.

Fair points well-made, but we’ll agree to disagree on much of it. I understand the need to keep things “on topic” and to not be talking politics or computer gaming in a MR&R thread. But as much as you might only want to see reports and ratings from those who went to the match, the MR&R thread is pretty much the de-facto place to discuss things in the wake of the most recent match because by its very nature it is post-match discussion. In my eyes, the OMT is for discussion whilst the match is ongoing, whether you’re at the game or listening on the radio. Many people’s views on Brown, or the average age of the squad, or pay packets are linked for better or for worse to the way the team has performed in a given game and if people can’t take the negative views with the positive ones in certain threads then we might as well close the forum. You can clearly see just by skimming what posts are the sort of match reports and ratings that you’re looking over, so just skip over the ones that aren’t and reprimand members who break rules in the resulting discussion. I don’t understand what’s so difficult about that.

 

[Freedom for Tooting]

The sheer irony and lack of self awareness is laughable. Lack of free speech is what every extremist bore says these days, be it football or politics. THE GUY IS SETTING UP AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY WHAT YOU WANT WHENEVER YOU WANT ON A PUBLIC FORUM WITHOUT THOSE OF US WHO MAY NOT WANT TO READ IT ON THREADS ESTABLISHED FOR SPECIFIC REASONS E.G. ACTUAL MATCH REPORTS FOR US WHO CAN' T GET TO AWAY GAMES NOT COSTANT MOANING OR REPEATING THE SAME VIEWS.Merry Xmas.

 

[Medway Blue]

The sheer irony and lack of self awareness is laughable. Lack of free speech is what every extremist bore says these days, be it football or politics. THE GUY IS SETTING UP AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY WHAT YOU WANT WHENEVER YOU WANT ON A PUBLIC FORUM WITHOUT THOSE OF US WHO MAY NOT WANT TO READ IT ON THREADS ESTABLISHED FOR SPECIFIC REASONS E.G. ACTUAL MATCH REPORTS FOR US WHO CAN' T GET TO AWAY GAMES NOT COSTANT MOANING OR REPEATING THE SAME VIEWS.Merry Xmas.

I can’t believe you’ve come to such a sugar-coated, rainbows and unicorns conclusion regarding the motives based on the original post. So you probably didn’t read it.

 

[AndyT]

Fair points well-made, but we’ll agree to disagree on much of it. I understand the need to keep things “on topic” and to not be talking politics or computer gaming in a MR&R thread. But as much as you might only want to see reports and ratings from those who went to the match, the MR&R thread is pretty much the de-facto place to discuss things in the wake of the most recent match because by its very nature it is post-match discussion. In my eyes, the OMT is for discussion whilst the match is ongoing, whether you’re at the game or listening on the radio. Many people’s views on Brown, or the average age of the squad, or pay packets are linked for better or for worse to the way the team has performed in a given game and if people can’t take the negative views with the positive ones in certain threads then we might as well close the forum. You can clearly see just by skimming what posts are the sort of match reports and ratings that you’re looking over, so just skip over the ones that aren’t and reprimand members who break rules in the resulting discussion. I don’t understand what’s so difficult about that.

Agreed and again, fair comment.

My point is largely that, whilst I agree that the MR&R will dissect the match and possible issues arising from it, it should develop into that sort of discussion, based on comments made by people who were there. Rather than, right from post one, be an opportunity for people to vent their anger at a match they haven't even attended.

I accept the "ignore" option and just skim through the posts that aren't relevant, but, as I said, it becomes a vortex that you feel dragged into and feel the need to put a counter view across. It's not that the views are incorrect, it's just that to hear them repeatedly, just drains people of any enthusiasm to post and be a part of the discussion.

Hence why three people bailed out today and others have recently.

As I said, that can't be a good thing.

 

[Lord Football]

I’m not sure why I expected a proper response rather than a childish one like that? Nitpick the way I’ve worded things all you like, I was simply trying to give you the benefit of the doubt by saying that you’ve stopped short of muffling freedom of speech but you’re halfway there by trying to shove us all in a room or move us all on so that you can’t hear us. It’s the equivalent of if I had gone up to the “Boycott Israel” Palestinian protestors on Oxford Street yesterday and said “I agree with your right to express your opinion, but I and the other shoppers here outside Marks & Spencer don’t like it, so can you move on please?”

Can’t we just let the level-headed Mods like Ken and John make decisions like this without throwing their weight around?

I am not sure, given the tone of the opening post, why you did either. I am also not sure why you are getting angry about it. But I think you've set the tone for the thread really well. Nice work.

 

[Medway Blue]

Agreed and again, fair comment.

My point is largely that, whilst I agree that the MR&R will dissect the match and possible issues arising from it, it should develop into that sort of discussion, based on comments made by people who were there. Rather than, right from post one, be an opportunity for people to vent their anger at a match they haven't even attended.

I accept the "ignore" option and just skim through the posts that aren't relevant, but, as I said, it becomes a vortex that you feel dragged into and feel the need to put a counter view across. It's not that the views are incorrect, it's just that to hear them repeatedly, just drains people of any enthusiasm to post and be a part of the discussion.

Hence why three people bailed out today and others have recently.

As I said, that can't be a good thing.

I understand where you’re coming from but I’m not convinced that it’s your job to sanitise things if certain posters’ sensibilities are offended by seeing some negative posts and they’re unable to just let it wash over them and skip past them. There’s enough of a censorious and “pandering” attitude in real life, we don’t need it on here too.

I am not sure, given the tone of the opening post, why you did either. I am also not sure why you are getting angry about it. But I think you've set the tone for the thread really well. Nice work.

I’m not angry. I’m very calm with my Christmas Eve beer in hand. I’m just a bit dismayed at the decision taken to do this and the reasons behind it. I’m not sure what tone you were going for in your opening post and if I misread it then my bad......but this:

“The downside of this (but really, can there be a downside) is you keep the random, off topic **** off threads where your negativity isn't needed nor required.”

doesn’t come across well and I’d argue it’s that which has set the tone of the thread.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Why don't you just rename the thread Match report, ratings and reaction? Solves the problem and keeps the posts relevant.

 

[AndyT]

I understand where you’re coming from but I’m not convinced that it’s your job to sanitise things if certain posters’ sensibilities are offended by seeing some negative posts and they’re unable to just let it wash over them and skip past them. There’s enough of a censorious and “pandering” attitude in real life, we don’t need it on here too.

I don't think it's about sanitizing, as such.

It's about being worn down by the endless repetitiveness of some posts. Negative or positive. Match after match. Thread after thread. The same posts appear.

We all know the view of the poster and accept that and have made our choice to ignore it or respond to it, so why does the poster have to keep on posting that view. Thread after thread.

As I said, I'm all for freedom of speech, but to me there's a difference between adding to a debate or constantly re-enforcing the same point until it loses it's effect and becomes irritating.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Why don't you just rename the thread Match report, ratings and reaction? Solves the problem and keeps the posts relevant.

There's a simple answer to that - every match report deviates away so much from an actual report on the match that they become totally lost in rhetoric and summation. Some participants in this forum literally want to read a match report and review from those who were there - it shouldn't be too much to ask people to keep to that on that particular thread. Maybe we need two threads opened after a match - one for reviews and one for reaction.

For goodness sake, remember Wiggy?

 

[Medway Blue]

I don't think it's about sanitizing, as such.

It's about being worn down by the endless repetitiveness of some posts. Match after match. Thread after thread. The same posts appear.

We all know the view of the poster and accept that and have made our choice to ignore it or respond to it, so why does the poster have to keep on posting that view. Thread after thread.

As I said, I'm all for freedom of speech, but to me there's a difference between adding to a debate and constantly re-enforcing the same point until it loses it's affect and becomes irritating.

I don’t doubt that it becomes tiresome and repetitive to some but IMO that’s the nature of a forum and the free speech that comes with it. People can air views (no matter how repitive), and people can disagree with them (or express disdain at their repetitive or tiresome nature) all they want. I don’t think it’s right to shove all those views in a room where they can’t be heard. Like I said earlier, it’s a bit like telling a protest group or a march that they have the right to do what they’re doing, but could they go and do it somewhere else please. I don’t think it’s a healthy stance to take.

 

[Medway Blue]

There's a simple answer to that - every match report deviates away so much from an actual report on the match that they become totally lost in rhetoric and summation. Some participants in this forum literally want to read a match report and review from those who were there - it shouldn't be too much to ask people to keep to that on that particular thread. Maybe we need two threads opened after a match - one for reviews and one for reaction.

For goodness sake, remember Wiggy?

See now why couldn’t a mod have taken this stance and direction? It would come across much better than the sarcastic and passive-aggressive (as I read it) original post and seems much less like a “I disagree with your opinion AND hate it, so since I can’t stop you from saying it I’ll restrict where you can say it or even put you in a room where other people can’t see your negativity and get upset by it”.

 

[AndyT]

I don’t doubt that it becomes tiresome and repetitive to some but IMO that’s the nature of a forum and the free speech that comes with it. People can air views (no matter how repitive), and people can disagree with them (or express disdain at their repetitive or tiresome nature) all they want. I don’t think it’s right to shove all those views in a room where they can’t be heard. Like I said earlier, it’s a bit like telling a protest group or a march that they have the right to do what they’re doing, but could they go and do it somewhere else please. I don’t think it’s a healthy stance to take.

I would entirely agree with the "Free Speech" argument and am very much pro this. Always have been and always will be.

However, within a forum, there are rules and guidelines. In recent months, people have been banned from here because their posting style didn't fit in with the harmony of the board and became a source of frustration to other posters. Personally, I didn't agree with the banning, but that is what happened. Why weren't those irritated by the banned posters able to side-step their views at the time?

A line in the sand has been drawn by the banning of those posters, so to be equal and fair, a line needs to be drawn when other current posters also result in members feeling unable to post because of them.

'Lord Football' has, tongue in cheek, created a thread where like-minded souls can vent their anger. It doesn't mean they can't contribute to other threads, but it does mean that if they do, they should respect those who want to have a reasoned debate on those threads.

 

[onceknownasrab]

In balance, it needs to be remembered, that there are many, so called positive posters, that as soon as though post they call out the anti-PB brigade, without need and before that view is even expressed. That is boring too.

 

[AndyT]

Yep, agreed.

Mentioned this in post #14 'rab'