The official WTF is going on thread

[Tommy2holes]

Lets put things into perspective.

We are lead to believe that the reason for our lack of financial clout is because we are building this super stadium. What a load of old sh 1t . Does anybody seriously beleive that we are going to ever see a brick layed? I dont believe it will happen in the next 3 seasons unless somthing significant happens like a rich invester taking control of the club.

So what does that mean? Well the club is slowly stripping all its playing staff on high wages and seeing as we are unlikely to be buying anyone anytime soon i would suggest even Tilly will struggle to keep us in the league. Sooner or later something has to give and that means relegation which in turn means less gates less revenue and less players.

The PR from our so called saviour is pittifull. What Geoff King has done to Al Revell today is a ****ing disgrace.

We have recouped far more on player sales than we have spent . Yes we have had big games and shares created and we are still in the mire. WTF would have happened if we hadnt had those games? We probably would have been bust by now. Thats kind of a potluck attitude to take by the board.

I wish would would just abandon this notion of the new stadium for say 5 years. We have said that we need it to survive , but it seems to me that chasing the stadium dream is gonna kill the club.

I honestly havent been this depressed since we got relegated at york city some years ago.

 

[23atkins]

Bloke above has got it spot on! Relegation is on the cards and Tilly one day will have had enough and will move and then we will have lost our greatest asset! Tough times ahead!

 

[Tommy2holes]

Im not saying abandon the stadium for ever, but now is not the right time and the team the management the players and us the fans are really suffering because we are chasing something that simply isnt within our present reach.

Martin needs to see this and rather than trying not to bruise his own ego actually concentrate on the here and now rather than trying to secure funds for the giant ball and chain that is holding the club in no-mans land.

 

[Beefy]

I think the stadium is a massive non-issue here. It's certainly not why we're where we currently are.

 

[marvel315]

I think the stadium is a massive non-issue here. It's certainly not why we're where we currently are.

im pretty new to posting on these forums and threads, but why do you think we are where we are????

 

[BrettieAngell]

You mean another WTF is going thread!

 

[Tommy2holes]

He seems to think that we are where we are because of the huge wage bill inherited from failing to achieve in the championship.

This wage bill is rumoured to be around 2million a year, but since being in the championship we have made like 2.5 million in player sales had an 8k average gate and had 2 games against chelsea one of which was live in ITV1. I would suggest that we made atleast 700k from those two games.

So your 4million defecit is now about 700k . I would hazzard a guess that numerous fees for architecture council approval to name a few on this stadium is what has dragged us in the mire.

 

[GBJ]

I think the stadium is a massive non-issue here. It's certainly not why we're where we currently are.

Really? I thought the reason we couldn't spend money on players was because all spare dough (not dough from the roots hall sale) was going on the stadium? Couold be wrong but that's what i always thought to be right.

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

Really? I thought the reason we couldn't spend money on players was because all spare dough (not dough from the roots hall sale) was going on the stadium? Couold be wrong but that's what i always thought to be right.

How much of the clubs money has actually been spent on planning for the new stadium? Will that be one of the answers at the AGM, or has it already been published in the accounts?

 

[Simbo]

You may question my credibility as I very rarely post on this forum but I know for a FACT that Tilson was very interested in the Norwich job and was pretty active in his pursuit of it. Its all due to him being totally fed up with the current state the club is in. Players and staff havnt been paid, there's no transfer funds and Tilson has had enough.

The club is being crippled while we chase the dream of a new stadium but there's no point as we wont have a team to play in it.

Something needs to be done otherwise we are going to lose our most valuable asset.

 

[GBJ]

You may question my credibility as I very rarely post on this forum but I know for a FACT that Tilson was very interested in the Norwich job and was pretty active in his pursuit of it. Its all due to him being totally fed up with the current state the club is in. Players and staff havnt been paid, there's no transfer funds and Tilson has had enough.

The club is being crippled while we chase the dream of a new stadium but there's no point as we wont have a team to play in it.

Something needs to be done otherwise we are going to lose our most valuable asset.

I can totally believe it AND understand Tilly.

 

[Tommy2holes]

I wouldnt be shocked if Tilly and Brushy leave the club very soon. Now that would be the saddest thing to happen since relegation from the championship and losing fred.

 

[undercovershrimper]

You may question my credibility as I very rarely post on this forum but I know for a FACT that Tilson was very interested in the Norwich job and was pretty active in his pursuit of it. Its all due to him being totally fed up with the current state the club is in. Players and staff havnt been paid, there's no transfer funds and Tilson has had enough.

The club is being crippled while we chase the dream of a new stadium but there's no point as we wont have a team to play in it.

Something needs to be done otherwise we are going to lose our most valuable asset.

I can tell you for a FACT that what you have written in the first paragraph is absolute TOSH.

 

[Simbo]

I can tell you for a FACT that what you have written in the first paragraph is absolute TOSH.

I trust my source and that is what I've been told.

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

There are so many threads going on today, this seemed like a good one to post my general thoughts on the whole situation at the moment.

Now I'm usually one of the glass half full types on here, but there seems to reason for genuine concern.

Firstly our PR lately is a shambles.
* Not paying Spinner & Little Havens is a disgrace, and King seemingly criticising Spinner for it?!?!
* Revs/Betsy being sent out on loan for financial reasons then being slated by our chief exec (Revs is still our player, 1. he deserves respect 2. we need to sell him dummy)
* King's debacle about the crowd trouble last season.
One thing is consistent here Geoff King, the man is a liability and his treatment of Revs & Spinner has to be the last straw, surely he has to go.

Lack of signings / Funds.
If the club is in financial difficulty then saving on the wage bill is prudent, although it leaves us threadbare at best.
With the loan window still open and unattached players able to sign, there could still be hope but it looks unlikely.

Ron Martin has stated recently (to Cricko re: the Stobart rumours) that he's not looking for additional investment. Why not? If things are tight new cash injection is just what we need, personally I'd still be happy with Ron in charge if we got more money in, you can't blame him for not being minted.

See the stadium thread for my thoughts on that, if we need to tighten our belts to secure that then so be it.

What concerns me is the conflicting information, Revs saying he's been sent out to save money, Spinner not getting his cash, the tax bill, the rumours ~ there is rarely smoke without fire.

And yet the club deny there is any problem, all i want is some honesty, if we're in the ****, tell us ~ we'll back you, we love this club and want the best for it, be honest with us and support you.

I wouldn't want to be RM or GK at the AGM.

 

[Beefy]

He seems to think that we are where we are because of the huge wage bill inherited from failing to achieve in the championship.

This wage bill is rumoured to be around 2million a year, but since being in the championship we have made like 2.5 million in player sales had an 8k average gate and had 2 games against chelsea one of which was live in ITV1. I would suggest that we made atleast 700k from those two games.

So your 4million defecit is now about 700k . I would hazzard a guess that numerous fees for architecture council approval to name a few on this stadium is what has dragged us in the mire.

But we've got general costs and we've shelled out on transfer fees. I mean this stuff is all in the accounts. I'm sure there's stadium costs hidden in the P&L somewhere but by far our biggest outgoings are wages. Even in the August 07 figures covering our Championship year, Carling Cup run and Eastwood sale, we only broke even.

 

[watchtheballboys]

We have a problem....fact

We really do have a problem as it is clear that Tilly does not have the final say on signings and was very frustrated before the start of the season due to the lack of funds and the meddling from RM in the transfer policy.

I was quite impressed by the two loanees from Col U and felt that even if we could not afford to sign them on a permanent deal their loan period could be extended. A six month period would have made sense to see if we were up there challenging for a play off place it would have then made sense to look at a permanent signing of the players.

Betsy was from the moment he joined us a poor signing and I can see the sense in moving him out. He always seemed to be totally uninterested in the team and played for himself. I know the stats showed he was high on the assists list last term but he was such a frustrating player and certainly not a worthy replacement on the wing for Gower.

Revs is a different kettle of fish a full all out trier BUT, as I have always felt, lacking that bit of class necessary for this level. Certainly not a finisher and I am quite shocked that Swindon wanted him as I felt division two was more likely to be his level. A nice bloke, liked by the fans for his effort but again a poor signing.

Where does that leave us : if the Col U guys have gone that is really the main area of concern. The other is did Till agree to the guys going back if there was that choice and what does he do for a defence on Friday?

It seems likely it will be Herd on the left with Barrett and the guy from Sunderland who looked the size of a brick out house in the middle with Francis on the left. Cover for any injuries....God knows!!!

The reported bid for Macca is interesting and if he feels that decisions are affecting the slight possibility of a play off place will he be thinking of the January window to move on to somewhere with more potential. I think this could be the attempt at clever PR to appease fans thinking what is happening as players out but none in, is there a cash problem? So we look to hold onto a player known to be on good wages? Cynical but probably true!

Tilly is not happy, he did feel like many that if we had won promotion last season it would have been the worst thing for the club as it was highly unlikely funds would have been made available as it would require a major rebuild to stay up....possibly 8-10 players to improve the team and add squad cover of quality.

The stadium is in my opinion unlikely to come about as the promise of 'something happening' over the summer has simply not materialised.

It will be interesting on Friday as having kicked out a fans favourite like Revs and if it appears there is little motivation or effort the fans will be on RMs back very early on.

A win on Friday is imperative!!

Good luck Tilly and the boys in what are worrying times.............

 

[North Wales Shrimper]

Well having looked through the accounts quickly this morning the following strikes me:

To the year ending 31 July 2008 we owed:

D M Markscheffel: £50,000
Paul Robinson & Co. Solicitors: £5,765
F Van Wezel (Hi-Tec): £100,000
South Eastern Leisure: £950,308
Martin Dawn plc: £64,625
Mezcal Investments (50% owner of SEL): £1,000,000
Roots Hall Limited: £211,424

Total: £2,382,122

We are currently have at least two Mortgages/Charges against us in relation to a League Payments Account (perhaps somebody could clarify what this is) and a Season Ticket Account whereby we give up all rights to monies brought in by Season Tickets in preference of receiving the money in one lump. However, normal factoring in this regard would mean that we are giving up (usually) ~15% of the revenue from Season Tickets.

Interestingly, the amount owed both to the Taxman at the end of the year was down on the previous year, but still amounted to a rather worrying (well we know we owe them c.£630,000 at the moment) £888,459 of that amount £319,002 was for Social Security Costs.

Staff
I see that the average number of Playing, Training & Coaching staff employed in the year was 64 (a rise of 2 - where are they all?), 24 Grounds & Maintenance Staff (a fall of 4) and 7 paid directors, totalling 95 avg. through the year.

Total wages and salaries (including directors) fell in the y/e 31.07.08 to £3,301,141 and including Tax, NI, Pension, Private Medical treatment and other staff costs came to £3,736,243 - a fall of £235,058.

However, turnover for the year fell by £2,143,128 which by any imagination means that costs needed to be cut in the y/e 31.07.2009.

I firmly believe that what we have seen over the last few days is the result of:

a) The Winding Up Order
b) By now Ron would have had some draft accounts put in front of him which may be even grimmer reading.

As I understand it from A. N. Other source, the amount we owe as per the winding up order will be paid from funds secured from Sainsburys when they complete the purchase of Roots Hall and the surrounding land.

I am currently waiting for a copy of the Company Record which details all the Mortgages/Charges we currently have and will let everybody know in due course, but:

The bottom line is, turnover to the Y/E 31.07.2008 fell by £2,143,128 which is a lot of money however you look at it.

 

[Napster]

Well having looked through the accounts quickly this morning the following strikes me:

To the year ending 31 July 2008 we owed:

D M Markscheffel: £50,000
Paul Robinson & Co. Solicitors: £5,765
F Van Wezel (Hi-Tec): £100,000
South Eastern Leisure: £950,308
Martin Dawn plc: £64,625
Mezcal Investments (50% owner of SEL): £1,000,000
Roots Hall Limited: £211,424

Total: £2,382,122

Ok, well of those, they're all directors, or linked to Ron. None of them are worth worrying about.

Although, Mezcal is not listed in Companies House.

 

[Pubey]

The bottom line is, turnover to the Y/E 31.07.2008 fell by £2,143,128 which is a lot of money however you look at it.

I assume that's the impact of relegation, hopefully the books look a little bit more balanced this year and we've managed to absorb some of that loss