The right stuff

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,11:41)]Skivington

Good God I forgot all about this pile of poo. Was it Derby we got him from?

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 13 2005,11:46)]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,11:41)]Skivington

Good God I forgot all about this pile of poo. Was it Derby we got him from?

Yup. He was dreadful.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,10:13)]In my 37 years of following SUFC, there have been two distinct periods where the club has gone in for "quality" players on good money.  On each occasion the management were applauded for showing great ambition... and each occasion ended in absolute disaster and nearly killed the club we love.

Occasion 1 - 1983-4.  

Occasion 2 - The Ronnie Whelan era.  Please, please please everyone ask themselves why Mike Marsh (Galatasary), Lars Unger (Fortuna Dusseldorf), £1m rated Andy Rammell, US International Mike Lapper, and ex-Celtic players Paul Byrne and Mark McNally want to ply their trade at Roots Hall?  Two answers - a) money, and b) an easy life, both which they had in abundance during that spell that saw Blues lose their Div 1 status, and go straight through div 2 to the bottom league, which we have only just clambered out of.

fbm... a superb post, as always.

For the second period, the name you're really looking for is, of course, Jeroen Boere. The supposed big name, Premier$hite (Palace, West Ham) star, who came and collected his big money wages (£3,500 a week, IIRC) and barely broke sweat.

Heaven forbid that we should sign his like again.

Matt

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 13 2005,17:27)]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,10:13)]In my 37 years of following SUFC, there have been two distinct periods where the club has gone in for "quality" players on good money.  On each occasion the management were applauded for showing great ambition... and each occasion ended in absolute disaster and nearly killed the club we love.

Occasion 1 - 1983-4.  

Occasion 2 - The Ronnie Whelan era.  Please, please please everyone ask themselves why Mike Marsh (Galatasary), Lars Unger (Fortuna Dusseldorf), £1m rated Andy Rammell, US International Mike Lapper, and ex-Celtic players Paul Byrne and Mark McNally want to ply their trade at Roots Hall?  Two answers - a) money, and b) an easy life, both which they had in abundance during that spell that saw Blues lose their Div 1 status, and go straight through div 2 to the bottom league, which we have only just clambered out of.

fbm... a superb post, as always.

For the second period, the name you're really  looking for is, of course, Jeroen Boere.  The supposed big name, Premier$hite (Palace, West Ham) star, who came and collected his big money wages (£3,500 a week, IIRC) and barely broke sweat.

Heaven forbid that we should sign his like again.

Matt

I deliberately omitted him to see if you'd pick it up Matt.

Good to see I'm not disappointed.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,17:43)]I deliberately omitted him to see if you'd pick it up Matt.

Good to see I'm not disappointed.

I don't like to disappoint my public...

Boere is the quintessence of everything that was wrong from 1997 onwards. Of course he had to be mentioned, it would have been wrong not to...

Matt

 

[benny the blue]

Dont forget that with the transfer window in place certain players will be greedy and get what they can from clubs. However as the window nears its close the clubs will have superior powers regarding contract talks. I think that the indow will only truely get going with around a week to go when players may start to get more desperate. Dangerous game for us to play but it may just well work out!

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,10:13)]In my 37 years of following SUFC, there have been two distinct periods where the club has gone in for "quality" players on good money.  On each occasion the management were applauded for showing great ambition... and each occasion ended in absolute disaster and nearly killed the club we love.

Occasion 1 - 1983-4.  Peter Morris was manager and the Blues were in the old Div 3 (league one now).  The season started a bit iffy but then we brought in Billy Kellock from Div 1 (Prem) Wolves.  The team blew hot and cold but when they clicked they destroyed sides.  The early part of that season saw a 6-1 victory at Scunthorpe followed by 2 successive 3-0 defeats, one at home to Exeter and the other away at Burnley.  Then a 3-0 victory over Orient, a 2-0 reverse at Bolton but then the peak of that season; a 6-0 thumping of Brentford at the Hall to put Blues up to 17th but as the team were beginning to gel the feeling was that we had loads of class and would soon climb up the table.  How wrong we were.  Kellock and his overpaid cronies lapsed into the comfort zone, picking up their wages without putting in the effort... Morris was replaced by the late great Bobby Moore as manager who failed to halt the slide, and look at some of the results we had that season - Sheff Utd 0-5, Gillingham 1-5, Plymouth 0-4, Millwall 0-4... we finished in 22nd and got relegated (despite ex England international Trevor Whymark being in the team).  The following 2 seasons were the darkest ever in the clubs history.

Occasion 2 - The Ronnie Whelan era.  Please, please please everyone ask themselves why Mike Marsh (Galatasary), Lars Unger (Fortuna Dusseldorf), £1m rated Andy Rammell, US International Mike Lapper, and ex-Celtic players Paul Byrne and Mark McNally want to ply their trade at Roots Hall?  Two answers - a) money, and b) an easy life, both which they had in abundance during that spell that saw Blues lose their Div 1 status, and go straight through div 2 to the bottom league, which we have only just clambered out of.

So, frankly, I have no desire to go down that route again, and am only interested in playeres who want to play for this club.  We will be a far more stable and successful outfit with a team of journeymen and youngsters than we will with a team of prima donnas and famous has beens.

Just remember, before they came to Southend, Collymore, Powell, Butler, Austin, Edinburgh and Prior were all up and coming or players with points to prove having been discarded onto the scrapheap from elsewhere.  Chris Powell was with Aldershot, for Gods sake!  And they all blossomed under us, went on to play at Prem and in some cases International level.

So for me you can keep Luke Beckett, Neil Harris, Shaun Goater et al... bring on players we've never heard of who want to play for us, like Barrett, Eastwood and Gower.

Tilly and Brush haven't got one wrong yet.  I trust their judgement.

I take it when u talk about Byrne, Lapper and McNally you mean wages as opposed to a transfer fee as for what they gave us they were actually pretty cheap! Marsh on the other hand at £500,000 was easily the most talented players we've ever had.

Take your point but in terms of Neil Harris I think you're being a bit harsh as he's a local boy and a Blues fan.

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ July 13 2005,18:45)]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,10:13)]In my 37 years of following SUFC, there have been two distinct periods where the club has gone in for "quality" players on good money.  On each occasion the management were applauded for showing great ambition... and each occasion ended in absolute disaster and nearly killed the club we love.

Occasion 1 - 1983-4.  Peter Morris was manager and the Blues were in the old Div 3 (league one now).  The season started a bit iffy but then we brought in Billy Kellock from Div 1 (Prem) Wolves.  The team blew hot and cold but when they clicked they destroyed sides.  The early part of that season saw a 6-1 victory at Scunthorpe followed by 2 successive 3-0 defeats, one at home to Exeter and the other away at Burnley.  Then a 3-0 victory over Orient, a 2-0 reverse at Bolton but then the peak of that season; a 6-0 thumping of Brentford at the Hall to put Blues up to 17th but as the team were beginning to gel the feeling was that we had loads of class and would soon climb up the table.  How wrong we were.  Kellock and his overpaid cronies lapsed into the comfort zone, picking up their wages without putting in the effort... Morris was replaced by the late great Bobby Moore as manager who failed to halt the slide, and look at some of the results we had that season - Sheff Utd 0-5, Gillingham 1-5, Plymouth 0-4, Millwall 0-4... we finished in 22nd and got relegated (despite ex England international Trevor Whymark being in the team).  The following 2 seasons were the darkest ever in the clubs history.

Occasion 2 - The Ronnie Whelan era.  Please, please please everyone ask themselves why Mike Marsh (Galatasary), Lars Unger (Fortuna Dusseldorf), £1m rated Andy Rammell, US International Mike Lapper, and ex-Celtic players Paul Byrne and Mark McNally want to ply their trade at Roots Hall?  Two answers - a) money, and b) an easy life, both which they had in abundance during that spell that saw Blues lose their Div 1 status, and go straight through div 2 to the bottom league, which we have only just clambered out of.

So, frankly, I have no desire to go down that route again, and am only interested in playeres who want to play for this club.  We will be a far more stable and successful outfit with a team of journeymen and youngsters than we will with a team of prima donnas and famous has beens.

Just remember, before they came to Southend, Collymore, Powell, Butler, Austin, Edinburgh and Prior were all up and coming or players with points to prove having been discarded onto the scrapheap from elsewhere.  Chris Powell was with Aldershot, for Gods sake!  And they all blossomed under us, went on to play at Prem and in some cases International level.

So for me you can keep Luke Beckett, Neil Harris, Shaun Goater et al... bring on players we've never heard of who want to play for us, like Barrett, Eastwood and Gower.

Tilly and Brush haven't got one wrong yet.  I trust their judgement.

I take it when u talk about Byrne, Lapper and McNally you mean wages as opposed to a transfer fee as for what they gave us they were actually pretty cheap! Marsh on the other hand at £500,000 was easily the most talented players we've ever had.

Take your point but in terms of Neil Harris I think you're being a bit harsh as he's a local boy and a Blues fan.

Yeah, Harris is local, but would he WANT to play for Southend over and above, say, a team like Luton? With people like Barrett, I think he would. He has the hunger.

Also, a few of you are missing the point I think... I don't necessarily seek to criticise players that we signed, but more question their motives for coming here in the first place. Anyone can play in a decent team, but it's when the chips are down that you see the true character and resilience of a side. The lot we had (in both my examples) just didn't have the stomach for the fight. Too many players went missing or got "injured".

I am confident that we now have players who would be prepared to get us out of the mire if they possibly could, rather than go into hiding and let others carry the burden (like Leo Roget, who was a man mountain in our relegation season from div 1).

 

[TrueBlue]

Don't forget as soon as Rammel $%&*ed off he scored a bag full for his next club!

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,21:19)]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ July 13 2005,18:45)]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,10:13)]In my 37 years of following SUFC, there have been two distinct periods where the club has gone in for "quality" players on good money.  On each occasion the management were applauded for showing great ambition... and each occasion ended in absolute disaster and nearly killed the club we love.

Occasion 1 - 1983-4.  Peter Morris was manager and the Blues were in the old Div 3 (league one now).  The season started a bit iffy but then we brought in Billy Kellock from Div 1 (Prem) Wolves.  The team blew hot and cold but when they clicked they destroyed sides.  The early part of that season saw a 6-1 victory at Scunthorpe followed by 2 successive 3-0 defeats, one at home to Exeter and the other away at Burnley.  Then a 3-0 victory over Orient, a 2-0 reverse at Bolton but then the peak of that season; a 6-0 thumping of Brentford at the Hall to put Blues up to 17th but as the team were beginning to gel the feeling was that we had loads of class and would soon climb up the table.  How wrong we were.  Kellock and his overpaid cronies lapsed into the comfort zone, picking up their wages without putting in the effort... Morris was replaced by the late great Bobby Moore as manager who failed to halt the slide, and look at some of the results we had that season - Sheff Utd 0-5, Gillingham 1-5, Plymouth 0-4, Millwall 0-4... we finished in 22nd and got relegated (despite ex England international Trevor Whymark being in the team).  The following 2 seasons were the darkest ever in the clubs history.

Occasion 2 - The Ronnie Whelan era.  Please, please please everyone ask themselves why Mike Marsh (Galatasary), Lars Unger (Fortuna Dusseldorf), £1m rated Andy Rammell, US International Mike Lapper, and ex-Celtic players Paul Byrne and Mark McNally want to ply their trade at Roots Hall?  Two answers - a) money, and b) an easy life, both which they had in abundance during that spell that saw Blues lose their Div 1 status, and go straight through div 2 to the bottom league, which we have only just clambered out of.

So, frankly, I have no desire to go down that route again, and am only interested in playeres who want to play for this club.  We will be a far more stable and successful outfit with a team of journeymen and youngsters than we will with a team of prima donnas and famous has beens.

Just remember, before they came to Southend, Collymore, Powell, Butler, Austin, Edinburgh and Prior were all up and coming or players with points to prove having been discarded onto the scrapheap from elsewhere.  Chris Powell was with Aldershot, for Gods sake!  And they all blossomed under us, went on to play at Prem and in some cases International level.

So for me you can keep Luke Beckett, Neil Harris, Shaun Goater et al... bring on players we've never heard of who want to play for us, like Barrett, Eastwood and Gower.

Tilly and Brush haven't got one wrong yet.  I trust their judgement.

I take it when u talk about Byrne, Lapper and McNally you mean wages as opposed to a transfer fee as for what they gave us they were actually pretty cheap! Marsh on the other hand at £500,000 was easily the most talented players we've ever had.

Take your point but in terms of Neil Harris I think you're being a bit harsh as he's a local boy and a Blues fan.

Yeah, Harris is local, but would he WANT to play for Southend over and above, say, a team like Luton?  With people like Barrett, I think he would.  He has the hunger.

Also, a few of you are missing the point I think... I don't necessarily seek to criticise players that we signed, but more question their motives for coming here in the first place.  Anyone can play in a decent team, but it's when the chips are down that you see the true character and resilience of a side.  The lot we had (in both my examples) just didn't have the stomach for the fight.  Too many players went missing or got "injured".

I am confident that we now have players who would be prepared to get us out of the mire if they possibly could, rather than go into hiding and let others carry the burden (like Leo Roget, who was a man mountain in our relegation season from div 1).

I think you've bypassed the fact that Harris is a Blues FAN and said he would love to play for us in the Echo before Xmas. I think the club would have to be a massive Championship club for him to turn us down, not Luton.

Having said that it depends what he'd be offered cash-wise elsewhere and whether he could live on what we paid him.

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ July 13 2005,21:44)]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,21:19)]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ July 13 2005,18:45)]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ July 13 2005,10:13)]In my 37 years of following SUFC, there have been two distinct periods where the club has gone in for "quality" players on good money.  On each occasion the management were applauded for showing great ambition... and each occasion ended in absolute disaster and nearly killed the club we love.

Occasion 1 - 1983-4.  Peter Morris was manager and the Blues were in the old Div 3 (league one now).  The season started a bit iffy but then we brought in Billy Kellock from Div 1 (Prem) Wolves.  The team blew hot and cold but when they clicked they destroyed sides.  The early part of that season saw a 6-1 victory at Scunthorpe followed by 2 successive 3-0 defeats, one at home to Exeter and the other away at Burnley.  Then a 3-0 victory over Orient, a 2-0 reverse at Bolton but then the peak of that season; a 6-0 thumping of Brentford at the Hall to put Blues up to 17th but as the team were beginning to gel the feeling was that we had loads of class and would soon climb up the table.  How wrong we were.  Kellock and his overpaid cronies lapsed into the comfort zone, picking up their wages without putting in the effort... Morris was replaced by the late great Bobby Moore as manager who failed to halt the slide, and look at some of the results we had that season - Sheff Utd 0-5, Gillingham 1-5, Plymouth 0-4, Millwall 0-4... we finished in 22nd and got relegated (despite ex England international Trevor Whymark being in the team).  The following 2 seasons were the darkest ever in the clubs history.

Occasion 2 - The Ronnie Whelan era.  Please, please please everyone ask themselves why Mike Marsh (Galatasary), Lars Unger (Fortuna Dusseldorf), £1m rated Andy Rammell, US International Mike Lapper, and ex-Celtic players Paul Byrne and Mark McNally want to ply their trade at Roots Hall?  Two answers - a) money, and b) an easy life, both which they had in abundance during that spell that saw Blues lose their Div 1 status, and go straight through div 2 to the bottom league, which we have only just clambered out of.

So, frankly, I have no desire to go down that route again, and am only interested in playeres who want to play for this club.  We will be a far more stable and successful outfit with a team of journeymen and youngsters than we will with a team of prima donnas and famous has beens.

Just remember, before they came to Southend, Collymore, Powell, Butler, Austin, Edinburgh and Prior were all up and coming or players with points to prove having been discarded onto the scrapheap from elsewhere.  Chris Powell was with Aldershot, for Gods sake!  And they all blossomed under us, went on to play at Prem and in some cases International level.

So for me you can keep Luke Beckett, Neil Harris, Shaun Goater et al... bring on players we've never heard of who want to play for us, like Barrett, Eastwood and Gower.

Tilly and Brush haven't got one wrong yet.  I trust their judgement.

I take it when u talk about Byrne, Lapper and McNally you mean wages as opposed to a transfer fee as for what they gave us they were actually pretty cheap! Marsh on the other hand at £500,000 was easily the most talented players we've ever had.

Take your point but in terms of Neil Harris I think you're being a bit harsh as he's a local boy and a Blues fan.

Yeah, Harris is local, but would he WANT to play for Southend over and above, say, a team like Luton?  With people like Barrett, I think he would.  He has the hunger.

Also, a few of you are missing the point I think... I don't necessarily seek to criticise players that we signed, but more question their motives for coming here in the first place.  Anyone can play in a decent team, but it's when the chips are down that you see the true character and resilience of a side.  The lot we had (in both my examples) just didn't have the stomach for the fight.  Too many players went missing or got "injured".

I am confident that we now have players who would be prepared to get us out of the mire if they possibly could, rather than go into hiding and let others carry the burden (like Leo Roget, who was a man mountain in our relegation season from div 1).

I think you've bypassed the fact that Harris is a Blues FAN and said he would love to play for us in the Echo before Xmas. I think the club would have to be a massive Championship club for him to turn us down, not Luton.

Having said that it depends what he'd be offered cash-wise elsewhere and whether he could live on what we paid him.

With Harris, you may be right.

But you get my point.

 

[sufcintheprem]

I mentioned a similar point to this some time back. I'm not fussed about us buying big names but I definitely think we need extra class to stay up in this division. It's easy to talk about upper midtable if you consider our best performances but we had a lot of abject games, the Chester aways, where we were lucky to get anything. Class, generally, costs money. If you can sign a consistent performer from non-league you have done well. I have a sneaking suspicion that Eastwood will be a lot more consistent next season but I don't think we can rely on it.

Looking through Luton's team last year, they had so many solid performers in their team but how important was Howard's constant physical threat and steady stream of goals?

Have to say, I have enjoyed the way that fbm has felt duty-bound to reply to every single post on 'his' topic!!