The Shrimpers Trust and its role with the current financial issues

[Jam_Man]

Ive posted this in general to get some attention, we will move it to the Trust forum shortly...

Following a comment I made and a subsequent reply from OBL thought Id start a specific discussion, especially after a great game on Saturday will hopefully mean this is in a slightly more positive environment!

Firstly Id like to make it clear, I am a trust member and I believe the trust do a lot of good. The assistance they give regarding the youth team is a great benefit to the club.

However over the last two months we have been talking about serious financial issues within the club, this follows a period of stability that arose from the Sainsbury bailout after we found ourselves millions in debt with the taxman and facing administration and liquidation.

I have been disappointed to see that other than a few Shrimperzone board members that no action has been taken to try to get to the bottom of what has been going on. If it wasnt for the action of some of our own members and the subsequent story in the echo we would not know anything, and Im pretty sure we still know little.

So the question is what role should the Shrimpers Trust be taking in this ?

My belief is the trust should be representing all supporters in trying to establish what our current situation is, and whether there is a plan or expectation that things will improve.

OBL raised the point in the other thread the Trust is "to help not hinder", what does that mean in this situation ? Clearly the Trust can not bale out the club financially nor buy it out, but is doing nothing at all helping and if so helping who? Is it's role to help the club by not asking any difficult questions and thus ignoring the supporters who are concerned to say the least about the financial feasibility of completing the stadium, and even existing on a day to day basis ?

Im in no way suggesting the Trust have the ability or power to resolve any of our issues, however I am certainly of the opinion they should have done something in the last month ?

Discuss....

 

[TrueBlue]

As a member on the trust committee, I don't always agree with the way its gone about with dealing with the club, I feel the club need to 'fear' the supporters more rather then treat them with disdain that they do, now I will never doubt the time and commitment people put into the trust that can't be questioned in my book, however whether its in the right direction thats something I don't feel personally is going the way I would handle it.

I feel there comes a point where you need to say you either tell us whats going on before its too late and the club goes down the pan, we can only help as a trust IF we know where the club needs us most! I also believe if Ron does not play ball then the trust so cut all funding to the club, in my book there is only so many times the club can or should be allowed to take the utter ****.

Thats just my views but I am sure other committee members see it differently and see a different approach more viable but for me talk is starting to get cheap time to act.

We have became a little to 'weak' for my liking

 

[Beefy]

I've yet to see any real evidence that the financial problems today are much worse than they were a year ago. I suspect that the period of stability was nothing of the sort. We're treading water. As we have been for a long time.

 

[TrueBlue]

I've yet to see any real evidence that the financial problems today are much worse than they were a year ago. I suspect that the period of stability was nothing of the sort. We're treading water. As we have been for a long time.

Well if your losing around 100k a month then on that time period thats 1.2 Million pound worse off! so prey tell how you dont think we are much worse off?

 

[Jam_Man]

I've yet to see any real evidence that the financial problems today are much worse than they were a year ago. I suspect that the period of stability was nothing of the sort. We're treading water. As we gave been for a long time.

Im pretty sure the stability we did have was because we had money left from Sainsburys.

May well be that things are no different than they were, but in the past Ron Martin et al could clearly cover the losses, Im not so sure he can anymore.

Are we just making do day to day, having tricky months, then some stable ones etc ?

Or are we in a position where we are going to start building up debts of 2 million in taxes ?

The problem is that we just dont know and Id have hoped the Trust would have at least been raising the issue, and maybe they have, but we have had to rely on leaks and our own digging to find anything out. I have no connection with the club but have found out more by asking questions off of my own back than Ive heard from the Trust, which is nothing.

I didnt ask the question to determine what our current finances are but to ask should the trust not be more visible at this time?

 

[leeblue]

Until the whole fossetts thing is done and dusted (if ever) we are stuck with ron and ron is stuck with us it really is as simple as that, any plans, agendas etc has to take this into account, as soon as we are playing at a new ground ron will walk (collecting the rent forever and a day on our three sided stadium and the retail side of course)

 

[Jam_Man]

Until the whole fossetts thing is done and dusted (if ever) we are stuck with ron and ron is stuck with us it really is as simple as that, any plans, agendas etc has to take this into account, as soon as we are playing at a new ground ron will walk (collecting the rent forever and a day on our three sided stadium and the retail side of course)

That is not the question I asked.

We may well be stuck with Ron Martin, but in the meantime when we are clearly struggling should the Trust not be trying to find out what the actual situation is ?

It may well be we have a short term cash flow that will be resolved when X happens.

Or it may be that Ron Martin can not meet our losses anymore, which lets face it he would not admit to.

The point Im making is we have no representation and I thought thats what the Trust is there for.

The future of our club is uncertain, will the stadium ever get built ? Will it have 4 sides ? If not when will the 3rd side be built. Do we have the finances to actually survive until then ?

Questions that need asking, and may be ignored, but if the Trust dont ask who will ?

 

[Beefy]

I think the Sainsburys money ran out 12 to 18 months ago.

 

[WightShrimper]

I don't pretend to know what the Trust do, but I would like to think that it would approach the Club as a middleman between Management and supporters and broker a deal whereby facts behind the day to day problems each side faces can be aired in an honest way with both sides agreeing what can be passed on to us. I don't envisage the trust becoming yet another 'secret society' but I do also appreciate that we either don't need to, or should be told, all the Club's financial doings; rather that it would be nice to have an 'overall' view of what is going on and it's implications for the club we support.
We need the Club and the Club needs us....we are, after all, it's bread and butter income.
Just a thought.

 

[Jam_Man]

I don't pretend to know what the Trust do, but I would like to think that it would approach the Club as a middleman between Management and supporters and broker a deal whereby facts behind the day to day problems each side faces can be aired in an honest way with both sides agreeing what can be passed on to us. I don't envisage the trust becoming yet another 'secret society' but I do also appreciate that we either don't need to, or should be told, all the Club's financial doings; rather that it would be nice to have an 'overall' view of what is going on and it's implications for the club we support.
We need the Club and the Club needs us....we are, after all, it's bread and butter income.
Just a thought.

No I wouldnt expect to be told everything, but I dont even know if the Trust have held any discussions with the club to find out, from what TB says above it doesnt seem like they have.

Crossing fingers and hoping all works out is all most of us can do, but still I would expect the Trust to be raising this with the club.

 

[TrueBlue]

No I wouldnt expect to be told everything, but I dont even know if the Trust have held any discussions with the club to find out, from what TB says above it doesnt seem like they have.

Crossing fingers and hoping all works out is all most of us can do, but still I would expect the Trust to be raising this with the club.

What I said was I don't think the right direction is being taken in my view, that's not to say attempts are not being made so I am told.

 

[OldBlueLady]

No I wouldnt expect to be told everything, but I dont even know if the Trust have held any discussions with the club to find out, from what TB says above it doesnt seem like they have.

Crossing fingers and hoping all works out is all most of us can do, but still I would expect the Trust to be raising this with the club.

Right, so if this has come up for discussion, it would be in the liaison minutes - have you read them? If it has come up - and I'm not suggesting for one moment that is the case - there is the possibility that it has been felt to be of too sensitive a nature to put out there for public consumption. In any meeting where sensitive information may be shared there is always the possibility that those in attendance are asked not to disclose what they have heard.

What you're arguing about is - from what I understand - exactly why certain people on the Board have indicated they are not in favour of a Trust representative joining the Board! I just don't "get" why you think, Jam Man, that we're entitled to know what's going on! It's not as if we're heading for another court date or anything - in that situation I would agree with you, but at the moment, I'm sorry but I just don't.

 

[TrueBlue]

Right, so if this has come up for discussion, it would be in the liaison minutes - have you read them? If it has come up - and I'm not suggesting for one moment that is the case - there is the possibility that it has been felt to be of too sensitive a nature to put out there for public consumption. In any meeting where sensitive information may be shared there is always the possibility that those in attendance are asked not to disclose what they have heard.

What you're arguing about is - from what I understand - exactly why certain people on the Board have indicated they are not in favour of a Trust representative joining the Board! I just don't "get" why you think, Jam Man, that we're entitled to know what's going on! It's not as if we're heading for another court date or anything - in that situation I would agree with you, but at the moment, I'm sorry but I just don't.

How can you say its not as if we're heading for another court date??!! this club Kay as you well know is on a knife edge and any one of the companies we owe money too INCLUDING board members investments and others can be called in at any time and when we can't pay winding up action will more then likely follow which means court!

We are entitled to know because this is OUR football club yet its owned by a businessman but he and the club are nothing without us week in and week out WE are the investors whether that be in writing or not!

We might not be entitled to by law but from every other ethical stand point we are!

 

[OldBlueLady]

How can you say its not as if we're heading for another court date??!! this club Kay as you well know is on a knife edge and any one of the companies we owe money too INCLUDING board members investments and others can be called in at any time and when we can't pay winding up action will more then likely follow which means court!

We are entitled to know because this is OUR football club yet its owned by a businessman but he and the club are nothing without us week in and week out WE are the investors whether that be in writing or not!

We might not be entitled to by law but from every other ethical stand point we are!

I agree we're on a knife edge, but I believe we have a much more shrewd man as CEO now, who is walking the tightrope a lot more successfully, so no court date.

We're entitled to nothing as supporters, as shareholders I might beg to differ, but I fail to see why people are suddenly demanding the "right" to know what's going on - we just don't have that "right".

 

[Jam_Man]

Right, so if this has come up for discussion, it would be in the liaison minutes - have you read them? If it has come up - and I'm not suggesting for one moment that is the case - there is the possibility that it has been felt to be of too sensitive a nature to put out there for public consumption. In any meeting where sensitive information may be shared there is always the possibility that those in attendance are asked not to disclose what they have heard.

What you're arguing about is - from what I understand - exactly why certain people on the Board have indicated they are not in favour of a Trust representative joining the Board! I just don't "get" why you think, Jam Man, that we're entitled to know what's going on! It's not as if we're heading for another court date or anything - in that situation I would agree with you, but at the moment, I'm sorry but I just don't.

I havent mentioned the place on the board, Im asking why the Trust havent been vocal.

I didnt see anything in the minutes regarding the recent financial issues, which again is a worry, why on earth arent the Trust talking about it ? If its that secret it cant be publicised to the members then again thats a worry.

To just accept we arent entitled to know anything just further begs the question what the trusts role is.

If it is just to get involved when court cases come in then surely it can be more pro-active!?

 

[TrueBlue]

I agree we're on a knife edge, but I believe we have a much more shrewd man as CEO now, who is walking the tightrope a lot more successfully, so no court date.

We're entitled to nothing as supporters, as shareholders I might beg to differ, but I fail to see why people are suddenly demanding the "right" to know what's going on - we just don't have that "right".

But you saying we don't have the right all falls back to the current ethos that I dont agree with the Trust in general is taking, again it seems like we 'must not upset the club here'

Its like the dog taking the owner for a walk

 

[Napster]

Ooooh. Good timing.

 

[Jam_Man]

But you saying we don't have the right all falls back to the current ethos that I dont agree with the Trust in general is taking, again it seems like we 'must not upset the club here'

Its like the dog taking the owner for a walk

Thats my take on it.

Seems the Trust is scared of upsetting the club, Id expect a supporters association to be demanding explanations, not just saying we dont have a right to know anything....

 

[TrueBlue]

Thats my take on it.

Seems the Trust is scared of upsetting the club, Id expect a supporters association to be demanding explanations, not just saying we dont have a right to know anything....

But like anything mate the door is always open for people to join the committee and make a difference and get your feeling across

 

[Firestorm]

in the Minutes of the August meeting , available to all Trust members to read, there are mentions of trying to get a Q&A together with RM, the minurtes of a liason meeting held with the club amongst other things.

Just a thought, but perhaps if Trust members read the Minutes and then emailed questions to the Chair (or spoke to trust committee members befor any game in the Shrimpers bar then concerns of individual members may be addressed.