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The Southend United Program debate.

What is your choice on matchday programme provision?


  • Total voters
    170
  • Poll closed .
It's not about cost cutting, it's about the carbon footprint. Ideally people would buy an online version.
Sorry Kay it is all about cost cutting. I know quite a bit about this as I am a friend of the previous programme distribution manager - who actually attended the game with me today and believe me, it is 100% about saving money in their eyes, though “in real terms” the savings are actually rather minuscule.

I am a big programme collector as you know and am aware of how the collecting fraternity think on this matter. It is all about having a tangible souvenir of the game to keep - not downloading something on your phone. Even when the programme is poor - as it undoubtedly is this season, collectors (of which there are many at this club) will still purchase it - not for the content (you can get all that information and more on SZ, the BBC, Wikipedia etc) but because of the desire to keep their collections up to date in the traditional way as they have done for many years.

I know speak for most when I say when digital online “programmes” become the norm (which seems to be the direction the club is heading in) that will be the day long-time collectors will cease as very few will have any interest at all in obtaining some watered down electronic version.

If in the meantime the club is carrying on selling a paper programme, at least try to make these accessible and available to people (is it really that much of an outlay to the club to have even just one person selling at the main gate?) rather than them having to queue up at a tea bar for 15 minutes behind someone who wants to buy three coffees and a coke. Aside from “the hardcore” loads of people won’t bother, which will result in lower sales to justify ending the sale of printed programmes. Perhaps this is what the club actually wants at the end of the day? No doubt time will out. ?
 
Lawrence's response re the programme problem was equivocal and evasive. If it's part of cost cutting it's going to rebound with fewer sales as a result. Buying a programme was to me always an integral part of going to a game and if this is now problematic it will only exacerbate discontent at how the club is run. Maybe only a relatively minor issue in the context of ticket problems, poor telephone systems, Blues TV, more waffle on FF etc but it all adds up to a poorly run club with little regard for its supporters. I really do question the wisdom of spending money that isn't there on a CEO when things are still going wrong at virtually every level.
Totally agree 100%. Mr Lawrence has been here 100 days but can anyone honestly name one thing they feel has improved in that time?
 
The carbon footprint argument is dubious unless the print run has been significantly reduced. Do you know if it has been? Of course, It's how many were printed, not how many were sold. This is a question that the CEO should have been asked but he basically got away from the point. It was said at the Zoom meeting that there were 117(?) left over from the Stockport game so it's more a case of ready availability being compromised by getting rid of programme sellers, i.e cost cutting.
How many were left over, per game, when we were last at the ground. We oculd have printed 5,000 and had 500 left so the decided to print 4,500 and have fewer left? It could be carbon footprint, it could be cost saving, but doing them online is cheaper, reducing printing costs is cheaper and having no one selling them is cheaper, so it could be about saving money as well. To be honest I wouldn't blame them on either front.
 
Like the watered down paper copy more like, £3 for that wafer thin effort?!!!
I had no trouble buying an All At Sea outside the West Stand !
A good read.

Unlike my programme which was a pain to buy and far too thin. Wealdstone’s programme is far superior, and who’s tin pot now ......
 
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I have no ideas how programmes used to work, there were programme sellers at various points throughout and outside the ground, I don't know if them being there was part of the contract we had with the company that did/do our programmes or what. I know we often had loads left over.

It makes perfect sense to me to have them available at the kiosks and bars - killing two birds with one stone, as it were, with the possibility of making additional sales as a result. The one I don't get though is not having someone walking round inside the ground to sell them.

He certainly wasn’t anything to do with SOS, as was mentioned.

RM is still irked that people don’t like him and have protested against him. I think this being mentioned was an attempt at a cheap shot against SOS, which with hindsight made him look silly.
Nope, I didn't take it like that. I think that's your personal opinion of the man that's making you think that. I thought it was quite clear that he was nothing to do with SOS - you and Kerry both said so, and Ron accepted that without question.
 
Have a lot of sympathy for Tom. He’s come in as CEO and having to deal with issues like programme sales and wifi reach rather than sorting the strategy for the club to grow and be sustainable. I have sympathy for his point about the ticket problems last week but another week on and another shambles. You’ve got to wonder what his team are doing as he can’t do it all himself.

The West ticket office only had two windows for buying tickets and for collections. In the end the stewards on the gate were taking cash and letting people in and loads still missed the start. I suspect you wouldn’t even have to pay to get an extra person on collections. Get a kid there an hour before the start, give them free entry and a burger and tell them they’ll just miss the first five minutes of the game. Giving out collections from a box doesn’t need a degree and yet some of the people in the queue would possibly have bought a drink
The programme thing smacks of some people just not liking change, programmes are still available from multiple outlets that sell more than just programmes which is a better use of the clubs limited budget.

I'm a little perplexed by people not wanting to go to the bar or refreshments kiosk due to covid but they are happy to handle a programme that someone else has handled along with attending a football match
I have no ideas how programmes used to work, there were programme sellers at various points throughout and outside the ground, I don't know if them being there was part of the contract we had with the company that did/do our programmes or what. I know we often had loads left over.

It makes perfect sense to me to have them available at the kiosks and bars - killing two birds with one stone, as it were, with the possibility of making additional sales as a result. The one I don't get though is not having someone walking round inside the ground to sell them.


Nope, I didn't take it like that. I think that's your personal opinion of the man that's making you think that. I thought it was quite clear that he was nothing to do with SOS - you and Kerry both said so, and Ron accepted that without question.

Programme sellers were traditionally youngsters who were paid no wage but a commission on each sale,

Perhaps #jai would be prepared to confirm the structure of his sale process for All at Sea - without divulging numbers of course. There was a very pleasant and polite young chap selling AAS outside the club shop yesterday - that’s the way to do it.

Making people enter a long queue for food that they don’t want is a really smart idea - not.

I’m sure people won’t be happy to waste ten minutes or more to snap up a copy of a publication that is being deliberately run down.

What is happening here is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Strip the programme of decent content, charge the same price and make it almost impossible to buy.

I can imagine the Board Meeting now.

Yeah. Eliminating our programmes is the key to our financial salvation. That’ll stop all the embargoes and pay for a new centre forward.

When you start a new CEO role, the objective is to quickly change a couple of material processes or procedures for the better.

That most certainly does not include (possibly) saving tuppence halfpenny by trying to eliminate a much loved tradition, which enables the club to directly communicate with their best customers and enables their business partners to demonstrate their support for the club whilst publicising their own business.

A completely missed opportunity and an utterly nonsensical decision.
 
How many programmes get sold? Any idea on the profit margin on each programme?
No idea, but when i used to print them 76-80 & 84-88, the average amount was 3,000. This was increased by between 500-1000, when we had a 'big' game.
What with the cost of them today, i'd be surprised if more than 2,000 were printed per game?.
 
Programme sellers were traditionally youngsters who were paid no wage but a commission on each sale,

Perhaps #jai would be prepared to confirm the structure of his sale process for All at Sea - without divulging numbers of course. There was a very pleasant and polite young chap selling AAS outside the club shop yesterday - that’s the way to do it.

Making people enter a long queue for food that they don’t want is a really smart idea - not.

I’m sure people won’t be happy to waste ten minutes or more to snap up a copy of a publication that is being deliberately run down.

What is happening here is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Strip the programme of decent content, charge the same price and make it almost impossible to buy.

I can imagine the Board Meeting now.

Yeah. Eliminating our programmes is the key to our financial salvation. That’ll stop all the embargoes and pay for a new centre forward.

When you start a new CEO role, the objective is to quickly change a couple of material processes or procedures for the better.

That most certainly does not include (possibly) saving tuppence halfpenny by trying to eliminate a much loved tradition, which enables the club to directly communicate with their best customers and enables their business partners to demonstrate their support for the club whilst publicising their own business.

A completely missed opportunity and an utterly nonsensical decision.
Beautifully put and sums things up completely in every way. As they say in US law “the defence rests” ?⭐️?

I wish I could like your post 100 times sir as you truly do “get it” - unlike it is fair to say, the people “running” Southend ?
 
Programme sellers were traditionally youngsters who were paid no wage but a commission on each sale,

Perhaps #jai would be prepared to confirm the structure of his sale process for All at Sea - without divulging numbers of course. There was a very pleasant and polite young chap selling AAS outside the club shop yesterday - that’s the way to do it.

Making people enter a long queue for food that they don’t want is a really smart idea - not.

I’m sure people won’t be happy to waste ten minutes or more to snap up a copy of a publication that is being deliberately run down.

What is happening here is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Strip the programme of decent content, charge the same price and make it almost impossible to buy.

I can imagine the Board Meeting now.

Yeah. Eliminating our programmes is the key to our financial salvation. That’ll stop all the embargoes and pay for a new centre forward.

When you start a new CEO role, the objective is to quickly change a couple of material processes or procedures for the better.

That most certainly does not include (possibly) saving tuppence halfpenny by trying to eliminate a much loved tradition, which enables the club to directly communicate with their best customers and enables their business partners to demonstrate their support for the club whilst publicising their own business.

A completely missed opportunity and an utterly nonsensical decision.
100% spot on. What is also worth pointing out is the attempt at the Zoom meeting to deflect away from the basic question by typical management speak evasion. Having watched it, we need to be much more forensic in questioning and not be fobbed off. Too easy for the CEO who appears to be as good as RM when it comes to lengthy responses that say nothing.
 
Of course we may get a bike stand in future.That'll help loads with the carbon footbrint too. :Winking:

Edit.BTW I've looked on the OS and can't see anywhere where I can buy an online programme for the Wrexham game.Care to provide a link?
Link to online purchase of physical programme is here

 
I had no trouble buying an All At Sea outside the West Stand !
A good read.

Unlike my programme which was a pain to buy and far too thin. Wealdstone’s programme is far superior, and who’s tin pot now ......
And Wealdstone had a lady selling these from a box on a table in front of the clubhouse when you first entered the ground.

Not exactly rocket science and basic business sense that if you are selling something then you should at least be visible to the people you are looking to sell your wares to.

Shame that we as a club cannot seem to grasp this rather simple concept too ?
 
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560 (hahaha) Wrexham fans in the ground (make that more like 800 to 900) and I’ll bet that there were loads of those fans looking for programmes who couldn’t get them due to the non existent marketing on the day, so more major lost revenue there no doubt.

I also know that the players never received any programmes in the dressing room on Saturday as one of them told me so. Only that a member of his family bought one that he actually was able to get a programme. You really couldn’t have a more disorganised **** up if you tried really could you? A complete and utter embarrassment doesn’t even begin to cover it ?

Is this really progress Mr Lawrence? Surely the club must be able to do better than this?
Brother, why do you care so much about a garbage publication? I get you collect them but where does this stop, the quality of a typical soccer programme has the same quality as a crumpled McDonalds bag - do you take one of them home every time you get a train from Liverpool Street?

When did you last flick through an old programme? When did you last get satisfaction from content in a programme? My friend, your behaviour is identical to a cigarette smoker once the local shop is shut. It's not the shop that's the issue, it's the addiction.
 
Programme sellers were traditionally youngsters who were paid no wage but a commission on each sale,

Perhaps #jai would be prepared to confirm the structure of his sale process for All at Sea - without divulging numbers of course. There was a very pleasant and polite young chap selling AAS outside the club shop yesterday - that’s the way to do it.

Making people enter a long queue for food that they don’t want is a really smart idea - not.

I’m sure people won’t be happy to waste ten minutes or more to snap up a copy of a publication that is being deliberately run down.

What is happening here is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Strip the programme of decent content, charge the same price and make it almost impossible to buy.

I can imagine the Board Meeting now.

Yeah. Eliminating our programmes is the key to our financial salvation. That’ll stop all the embargoes and pay for a new centre forward.

When you start a new CEO role, the objective is to quickly change a couple of material processes or procedures for the better.

That most certainly does not include (possibly) saving tuppence halfpenny by trying to eliminate a much loved tradition, which enables the club to directly communicate with their best customers and enables their business partners to demonstrate their support for the club whilst publicising their own business.

A completely missed opportunity and an utterly nonsensical decision.
That was Harry's first match as a seller, he's a lovely lad - I'll give him and his dad this nice feedback. Interestingly he said absolutely loads of people thought he was selling the programme - I think people had issues finding them on Saturday as this thread suggests.

We've been located in the same places for years, which helps because people know where we are - and we're very reliant on our core readership, who are very loyal.

We don't sell hundreds and hundreds but we try and cover both Shakespeare Drive and Vic Avenue on the first game of sale. Then after that it becomes trickier to justify the costs of paying sellers, and I tend to sell on my own outside the club shop for matches two or three especially if they are midweek.

Our margins are very small, we're in it for the enjoyment and definitely not the money. We pay our sellers quite well, we think, for an hour's work.

Keeping the price at £1 for all these years has helped and massive thanks to our printers CDT Associates for that - if it wasn't for them we would have had to give it up a couple of years back.

Our biggest issue at the moment is encouraging new contributors to ensure the content is diverse. We lean heavily on a few regular contributors - hopefully now fans are back in grounds, the routines will go back and people will be encouraged to write in. We're proud of having been a platform for young writers who have gone on to good careers in journalism, there have been at least a few professionals who started off writing for us.
 
That was Harry's first match as a seller, he's a lovely lad - I'll give him and his dad this nice feedback. Interestingly he said absolutely loads of people thought he was selling the programme - I think people had issues finding them on Saturday as this thread suggests.

We've been located in the same places for years, which helps because people know where we are - and we're very reliant on our core readership, who are very loyal.

We don't sell hundreds and hundreds but we try and cover both Shakespeare Drive and Vic Avenue on the first game of sale. Then after that it becomes trickier to justify the costs of paying sellers, and I tend to sell on my own outside the club shop for matches two or three especially if they are midweek.

Our margins are very small, we're in it for the enjoyment and definitely not the money. We pay our sellers quite well, we think, for an hour's work.

Keeping the price at £1 for all these years has helped and massive thanks to our printers CDT Associates for that - if it wasn't for them we would have had to give it up a couple of years back.

Our biggest issue at the moment is encouraging new contributors to ensure the content is diverse. We lean heavily on a few regular contributors - hopefully now fans are back in grounds, the routines will go back and people will be encouraged to write in. We're proud of having been a platform for young writers who have gone on to good careers in journalism, there have been at least a few professionals who started off writing for us.
Bought my first copy this weekend - and as someone who has made a living writing over the past decade I was very impressed
 
People need to realise that print media is a dying business and is being replaced by digital media.
Well as someone who worked for over 30 years in digital printing and reprographics I’d say that throughout that time if I had a quid for every time I’ve heard that old chestnut of how things are “going down the road of a paperless society” I’d be very rich indeed.

People say that but it really isn’t true - hard copy printing is still the preference of many and in a lot of cases actually more popular than ever - so take it from someone who actually knows, it isn’t going to be dying out at any time soon and THAT is fact. ?
 
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