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The Soviet Union - the Great Socialist Utopia

Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
6,800
Location
Oregon
Just to get the ball rolling....

'the annual risk of a person under Soviet control being murdered by the regime was 1 out of 222. But, compare - the annual risk of anyone in the world dying from war was 1 out of 5,556, from smoking a pack of cigarettes a day was 1 out of 278, from any cancer was 1 out of 357, or for an American to die in an auto accident was 1 out of 4,167.'

Wilson, Richard and E. A. C. Crouch. "Risk Assessment and Comparisons: An Introduction." SCIENCE, Vol. 236 (April 17, 1987), pp. 267-270.
 

MK Shrimper

Striker
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,391
That's all very well but...

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the west behind
And Moscow girls make me sing and shout
That Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
6,800
Location
Oregon
That's all very well but...

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the west behind
And Moscow girls make me sing and shout
That Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind

I demand a sensible answer! If you don't respond to my every whim I'll start insulting you. It's a trick I learned from the communists.
 

Lord Football

Blues on Tour
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
3,567
Location
Sunny Southend on Sea
Just to get the ball rolling....

'the annual risk of a person under Soviet control being murdered by the regime was 1 out of 222. But, compare - the annual risk of anyone in the world dying from war was 1 out of 5,556, from smoking a pack of cigarettes a day was 1 out of 278, from any cancer was 1 out of 357, or for an American to die in an auto accident was 1 out of 4,167.'

Wilson, Richard and E. A. C. Crouch. "Risk Assessment and Comparisons: An Introduction." SCIENCE, Vol. 236 (April 17, 1987), pp. 267-270.

Is that it? Is this what I've been waiting for? I was hoping for some critical analysis of the Soviet regime and why didn't, couldn't and wouldn't work.

What was the figure for Nazi controlled areas during 1937-1945, btw.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
37,564
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London
What was the figure for Nazi controlled areas during 1937-1945, btw.

Don't know what the number was, but the greater chance of dying at the hands of the state will definitely have been under Stalin than Hitler.

The purges made the concentration camps seem like a wishy-washy liberal compromise in comparison.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
6,800
Location
Oregon
Wasn't it a Communist state as opposed to a Socialist state ?

I believe it was called the 'Union of Soviet Socialist Republics'.

I'd like to write a longer dissertation as requested by my greatest fan and his nine year old secretary, but I have work to do. If I could pull down the kind of cheddar I make just by rabble rousing, I'd give it a shot, but from what I've seen and heard, such jobs are only claimed by the politically naive and socially inept.
 

BrettieAngell

THE ROCK GOD
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
19,642
Location
Southend
Don't know what the number was, but the greater chance of dying at the hands of the state will definitely have been under Stalin than Hitler.

The purges made the concentration camps seem like a wishy-washy liberal compromise in comparison.

Its a bit like saying whats worse, AIDS or Cancer?
 

Lord Football

Blues on Tour
Joined
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Messages
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Sunny Southend on Sea
'I never seen anyone get so upset'? Does your nine year old do your typing for you?


Check you spelling of Socialist earlier in the day ;)



Right, the Soviet Union. An appalling place. A place that could never work because of how it was formed and the paranoia that enveloped it. If anything it put communism and its ideals back about 100 years. Despite the wise cracks here and there, I am no fan of the Soviet style communism or of Stalin himself.

It formed in the aftermath of revolution and took a totally contrary stand to the rest of the world. Because of the constant (and probably non existent) fear of counter revolution and foreign influence, everyone came under suspicion. Freedom of choice was slowly eroded under Stalin. Whilst his policies were probably feasible, the people providing the labour were not doing so through choice. The real problem with Stalin, politically, was the he did not listen to counter argument and indeed view any counter argument with a suspicion deep enough for him to have those responsible shot. So eventually, everyone at every level lived in fear. Stalin became a self proclaimed icon, mainly due to fear. By the time Stalin died, the Communist Party was totally corrupt with those at the top clinging to whatever power and influence they could.

Any swaying from Soviet influence brought the worst out of the ruling politburo, as exampled in the crushing of risings in Budapest and Prague. The whole Soviet strategy was about control. Control of the people, control of their allies.

When get to the rule of Brezhnev the USSR had taken to regarding pretty everyone, even their own "allies" with suspicion.

The moment Gorbachev opened up the country it was bound to fail because the people never truly believed in it.

In summary the Soviet Union was born of anger, lived in fear and died in tatters. With the exception of the very early days it was not a communist state, it was an authoritarian dictatorship pretending to be a communist state.

If anyone gets the chance to Riga, go see the Occupation Museum. That's a real eye opener.
 

Sussex Shrimper

Manager
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
1,674
Names can't always be taken at face value, the National Socialists being a striking example.

From a right-wing perspective the kind of social democracy practised in Scandinavia is often described as socialism. Those countries achieve top notch track records for things like health, education, democracy and social freedom whilst maintaining competitive economic performance. It's fair enough to take an ideological position on whether or not socialism is right or fair, but to dismiss any trace of socialist principle as an invalid model for government is to ignore some of the great political success stories of recent decades.
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
15,239
Location
Immersed in the accounts
I believe it was called the 'Union of Soviet Socialist Republics'.

I'd like to write a longer dissertation as requested by my greatest fan and his nine year old secretary, but I have work to do. If I could pull down the kind of cheddar I make just by rabble rousing, I'd give it a shot, but from what I've seen and heard, such jobs are only claimed by the politically naive and socially inept.

Adolf Hitler was a National Socialist....It would appear that Fascist dictators have a tendency to hide their light under bushells with the name "socialist" on them
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
37,564
Location
London
Names can't always be taken at face value, the National Socialists being a striking example.

From a right-wing perspective the kind of social democracy practised in Scandinavia is often described as socialism. Those countries achieve top notch track records for things like health, education, democracy and social freedomsuicide whilst maintaining competitive economic performance. It's fair enough to take an ideological position on whether or not socialism is right or fair, but to dismiss any trace of socialist principle as an invalid model for government is to ignore some of the great political success stories of recent decades.

FWIW National Socialism isn't actually that misleading a description and the Nazi parties were not extreme right wing on things like economic policy, but were probably centre-left.
 

Sussex Shrimper

Manager
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
1,674
FWIW National Socialism isn't actually that misleading a description and the Nazi parties were not extreme right wing on things like economic policy, but were probably centre-left.

On economics perhaps, but Hitler's positions on questions of gender, race, sexuality and so on aren't ones that I would identify as being guided by principles of fairness and equality.
 
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