The Soviet Union - the Great Socialist Utopia

[Yorkshire Blue]

On economics perhaps, but Hitler's positions on questions of gender, race, sexuality and so on aren't ones that I would identify as being guided by principles of fairness and equality.

Yeah, that's the national[ism] bit.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I demand a sensible answer! If you don't respond to my every whim I'll start insulting you. It's a trick I learned from the communists.

That just wants me to post pictures of East European cuties :p

** steps aside and lets the adults play **

 

[Hotman]

FWIW National Socialism isn't actually that misleading a description and the Nazi parties were not extreme right wing on things like economic policy, but were probably centre-left.

Absolutely... same as how all of us "right wing" brigade aren't necessarily racists! There are two scales which can be interlinked - economic values (market led vs socialist) and authoritarianism vs liberalism.

Wonder what the self proclaimed Socialists feel about the BNP sharing their views on economics? One of the reasons I could never vote for them, ****ing lefties!!

 

[osymandus]

Totally agree we confuse terms and meanings that were never meant to dictate or point to these meanings . As already mentioned Scandinavian countries have taken teh best of socalist ideals and merged with free market ideals coupled with the inherant liberty of the individual (well this is what my Norwegian chums tell me and the books they point me to refer to their culture as well ;) ) .

China is taking the best parts of economic principles of capitalism and becoming the next Superpower .

A little video to remind us that maybe the differences are syntactic rather then literal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08VCkyG_C2s

 

[Lord Football]

...which explains your hammer & sickle avatar and your signature proclaiming you as "SHRIMPERZONE'S RESIDENT GODLESS STALINIST ".

Only sayin', like...

;)

No, it was someone on the mod team who changed my user title, not me.

And the Godless Stalinist was term foisted upon me by Rusty, so I used it.

 

[Slipperduke]

Once upon a time I said that political ideologies were like a ring. If you go too far to the left or to the right, you end up at the same place.

And that's precisely why I don't smoke pot anymore.

Anyway, point being, when you start slaughtering your own people it really doesn't matter whether you're a leftie or not, you're basically a ****. Stalin. Hitler. Castro. Mao Tse Tung. Pol Pot. George W Bush*. All *****


* - I'm only kidding Rusty. I don't really think he's in that class. Just a simple rich kid woefully out of his depth.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Once upon a time I said that political ideologies were like a ring. If you go too far to the left or to the right, you end up at the same place.

And that's precisely why I don't smoke pot anymore.

Anyway, point being, when you start slaughtering your own people it really doesn't matter whether you're a leftie or not, you're basically a ****. Stalin. Hitler. Castro. Mao Tse Tung. Pol Pot. George W Bush*. All *****


* - I'm only kidding Rusty. I don't really think he's in that class. Just a simple rich kid woefully out of his depth.

Just like me according to Lord Football. Is that a standard left-wing put down? It's interesting that Obama's basically carrying on Dubya's policies in Iraq and Afghanistan (one of the few thing he's going right), and yet he doesn't seem to be dealing with the same abuse. I wonder why that is?

 

[osymandus]

Just like me according to Lord Football. Is that a standard left-wing put down? It's interesting that Obama's basically carrying on Dubya's policies in Iraq and Afghanistan (one of the few thing he's going right), and yet he doesn't seem to be dealing with the same abuse. I wonder why that is?

Do you blame teh arsonist who started the fire or teh fireman who's controlling and putting out ?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Do you blame teh arsonist who started the fire or teh fireman who's controlling and putting out ?

And Obama is the fireman in your brilliant analogy? Surely he would be pulling US Troops out of Afghanistan rather than reinforcing their numbers? To continue your breathtakingly simplistic take on this, Obama's spraying gasoline from his hose.

 

[Firestorm]

It's interesting that Obama's basically carrying on Dubya's policies in Iraq and Afghanistan (one of the few thing he's going right), and yet he doesn't seem to be dealing with the same abuse. I wonder why that is?

Because Obama can spell and pronounce atrocities ? ;)

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Because Obama can spell and pronounce atrocities ? ;)

If he has his trusty phonetic teleprompter to hand, I'm sure he can.

 

[canveyshrimper]

If he has his trusty phonetic teleprompter to hand, I'm sure he can.

That's no way to talk about the blessed Hillary Rodham Clinton. :)

 

[Firestorm]

If he has his trusty phonetic teleprompter to hand, I'm sure he can.

Imagine GWB trying to ask his aide for one of them....

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Totally agree we confuse terms and meanings that were never meant to dictate or point to these meanings . As already mentioned Scandinavian countries have taken teh best of socalist ideals and merged with free market ideals coupled with the inherant liberty of the individual (well this is what my Norwegian chums tell me and the books they point me to refer to their culture as well ;) ) .

You certainly confuse the meanings. Free market ideals are about the inherent liberty of the individual. They don't need to be coupled to free market ideals because they ARE the free market ideals.

 

[Slipperduke]

Just like me according to Lord Football. Is that a standard left-wing put down? It's interesting that Obama's basically carrying on Dubya's policies in Iraq and Afghanistan (one of the few thing he's going right), and yet he doesn't seem to be dealing with the same abuse. I wonder why that is?

He's dealing with quite a bit of abuse from the left. Rolling Stone magazine ran a big nasty article on him recently, you wouldn't have thought that would happen a year ago.

Anyway, I thought the standard was that lefties were rich people trying to run the lives of the poor and right-wingers were poor people inadvertantly filling the pockets of the rich?

 

[osymandus]

He's dealing with quite a bit of abuse from the left. Rolling Stone magazine ran a big nasty article on him recently, you wouldn't have thought that would happen a year ago.

Anyway, I thought the standard was that lefties were rich people trying to run the lives of the poor and right-wingers were poor people inadvertantly filling the pockets of the rich?

Yes thats right and all those lefty liberals who own teh worlds media and are teh super rich , stealing from the hard-working honest joe who tolls all day long at mill/factorycomputer scree...

Err Rusty The Arsonist /Fireman anology .. if a fireman needs reinforcements to put it out his not going to stoicly stand there and say ha no i can do it by my virtue alone , nor his he likely to walk off and let it all burn to the ground .

 

[osymandus]

You certainly confuse the meanings. Free market ideals are about the inherent liberty of the individual. They don't need to be coupled to free market ideals because they ARE the free market ideals.

No i was being sarcastic . However complete libertarianism should allow all these systems to remain and operate along side each other .
The free market wants consumers , so its "enemy" is the anarchist and or self sufficient individual (who choice to opt out of say our type of society ) who dosnt require all the services offered.

Though my actually point that i got distracted from was that socialist and market forces and used very effectively in Norway , so what this really show's is both systems have a practical use.