The Umbongo

[OldBlueLady]

An update to @Shrimperstrust members from chairman, Paul Fitz in his introduction in the latest newsletter, which may be of interest to many:

RON MARTIN Q & A​

The unrest that many feel (in particular with the embargo and the results) led to the Trust organising a face to face Q & A (socially distanced of course) at Roots Hall. Representatives from all formal supporters’ groups were invited by the Trust and 30 or so attended. Interpreted minutes have been widely reported by others, so I won’t repeat everything that happened, but I list a few points that may be of interest, that have not been completely reported elsewhere, that I have seen. The purpose of this meeting was 3-fold...to get answers, to show the depth of feeling and finally, to improve communication going forward. Chris Phillips was refused an invite (by Ron), despite my protestations. Imagine my frustration then, on the night, as Ron asked whether he was in attendance. Yes, we owe HRMC more money and it’s down to the clubs to agree a payment plan – but there is no danger of another winding up order for a while. Ron, stated he couldn’t be expected to remember everything, after being asked why the promise (by end of September) to repay away ticket money owed to fans for the last 2 away games of last season had not been paid. (The following morning it was paid) Much discussion about embargo/players etc. etc. and then the commitment to clear embargo for the January window – a question “Won’t that be too late?” – then much more discussion about the team. “All wages up to date” - “No chance of points deduction.” “4 more players coming soon – plenty expected to leave, even some who joined recently”. The meeting signed off with the commitment that further sessions would be held in the coming weeks. Key expectations from the meeting were: • Good news from the council VERY soon • A phone call to clear the embargo • Some signings • Fans patience So...what has changed since that night? Some news appeared on the club website, and in the press, and the council have held their meeting. However, despite an apparent overwhelmingly positive view, we now wait for the full Council meeting (mid December). The embargo has not been cleared. Signings would be pointless - we can’t even play the players we have signed. Patience has worn thin due to the unfulfilled expectations Ron Martin really is his own worse enemy. With 30 vociferous fans in front of him, he suggests a simple phone call, is all that is needed to rid us of this embargo mess. Four weeks on from that, it’s clear that the phone call turned out to be anything but simple. In fact the rules have changed several times since his intentions were made public, but his inability to clarify or communicate with the fans, means that most, just think he lied in the first place. Ron’s note to me, yesterday says “it was a phone call to HMRC to enter into a Time to Pay (TtP) agreement. We no longer need this to lift embargo and expect, temporary embargo to be lifted this week” ….. it has taken four weeks to get to a point, where an explanation is forthcoming? I’m sure there are very good reasons (financial) that have changed his strategy, but where does that leave his credibility with the fans? On a zoom call today (29th Nov) with Ron, I put these points to him and he acknowledged the need to communicate more and has promised to make public the reasons behind the delay within the next day or so.​

 

[BriggBlue]

Bump ?

I'm not sure it's the amount that matters this time, although it will likely be increasing every month. the problem is that we haven't had any income since March and have been paying (hopefully) staff and players during that time so tax is due.

It will be a bit galling if the bailout money comes and every L1&L2 club has to instantly hand that money over to the HMRC but that is what's likely to happen.

Fwiw I don't think we need to clear the embargo I think that the EFL will stop enforcing it for all clubs pretty soon as their patience is wearing thin.

 

[Cricko]

The telling bit amongst that Trust post IMO is.

"Much discussion about embargo/players etc. etc. and then the commitment to clear embargo for the January window – a question “Won’t that be too late?” – then much more discussion about the team

So it seems it will be great fun for us supporters until then..

 

[Supershrimper]

The telling bit amongst that Trust post IMO is.

"Much discussion about embargo/players etc. etc. and then the commitment to clear embargo for the January window – a question “Won’t that be too late?” – then much more discussion about the team

So it seems it will be great fun for us supporters until then..

Sounds like Ron is hoping Santa is going to clear it as a Christmas present left in his stocking

 

[londonblue]

Ron doesn't feel he can be expected to remember everything? I'm sorry, but when you take on the role the responsibility lies with you. If you can't do the role because you're spreading yourself too thin then it's clear you need to delegate to a CEO.

If you don't do that then it's your responsibility. That said, you have to give him credit for getting the refund sorted the next day.

 

[kentblues]

Ron is his own worst enemy (as OBL says) and sometimes, because these days any sense of truth is optional, certainly in public life, its very easy just to assume we are always be lied to.

In this case, perhaps, circumstances make a "lie" of something that was a truth when it was said. Bu, of course, why believe that when we don't have to.

The comment about Jan window is long superseded - since then we needed a TTP agreement to lift earlier, and now we don't need that. Why enter into a TTP if you don't need to make that commitment (probably there is a reason)? Why would the embargo get lifted- well the EFL has a habit of changing their own rules to suit. In the last window apparently EFL extended the notification window for a default event to allow many clubs that should have been under an embargo not to have one applied- effect, they could carry on signing and registering players in the window. We were punished for already being under an embargo, hard luck (there are these old sticklers like me who actually think the EFL's primary job is simply to enforce their own rules as written, convenient or not, but I suspect I am in a minority. So all I hope for is fairness).

What has now happened is half the lower divisions are in a default event and under an embargo so the annoying rule has become even more inconvenient. So I expect the EFL are about to suspend the rule. Hence now we don't need TTP.

By the way another rule conveniently forgotten is about not paying your payers on time being a disciplinary matter (points deductions)- not only are some clubs allegedly not paying wages the EFL/PFA are paying them on behalf of the clubs. This would be points deductions (slam dunk as they say). But I suspect somehow these rules won't be applied.

So against a backdrop where various rules are "overlooked" to our disadvantage it only seems fair we should benefit for once from a more general "relief". Especially as we have cleared the WOU debt and are paying our players.

 

[kentblues]

Ron doesn't feel he can be expected to remember everything? I'm sorry, but when you take on the role the responsibility lies with you. If you can't do the role because you're spreading yourself too thin then it's clear you need to delegate to a CEO.

If you don't do that then it's your responsibility. That said, you have to give him credit for getting the refund sorted the next day.

It is difficult to believe he doesn't have a pen and paper at his side at these things. He either 1. gave it to someone else to do and they didn't 2. forgot to do it 3. remember but like with anything else I'll pay when I get something that sounds like the final demand..

At least it paid I guess.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

An update to @Shrimperstrust members from chairman, Paul Fitz in his introduction in the latest newsletter, which may be of interest to many:

RON MARTIN Q & A​

​ ​ “4 more players coming soon – plenty expected to leave, even some who joined recently”.

So by that comment, we will still be struggling for numbers in the near future?.
A very worrying comment imo.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Crap players to be replaced by more crap players then? Or Calvin Andrew to hit 20 goals between Jan and May and a late push for the play offs sees us beat Col U 5-0 in front of 2000 socially distance carboard cutouts at Wembley?

 

[SeldomSeenShrimper]

I'll be very surprised if Akinola and macca will be here after January.

Hopefully extend Whites deal.

Can't remember the situation with the loan players ... who did we sign till January ?

 

[southendkid]

Ron’s note to me, yesterday says “it was a phone call to HMRC to enter into a Time to Pay (TtP) agreement. We no longer need this to lift embargo and expect, temporary embargo to be lifted this week”

This sounds to me like Ron's excuse is that because of the upcoming bailout package he no longer needed to do a TtP because we can use the bailout to pay everything up front but surely it would have been better to arrange one so we could get out of the embargo a few weeks ago? HMRC aren't going to be annoyed if we suddenly find ourselves with enough money to rip up the TtP and just pay what we owe in one go. Unless what Ron means is that he's hoping the EFL are going to just remove embargoes for unpaid bills completely for the rest of this season, meaning he can just not pay the taxman as usual until we end up in court.

 

[Shrimper]

I'll be very surprised if Akinola and macca will be here after January.

Hopefully extend Whites deal.

Can't remember the situation with the loan players ... who did we sign till January ?

Sterling early Jan and Olayinka late Jan.

Fully expecting we'll see McCormack, Akinola, Sterling and Olayinka decide to leave or go back/be called back.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of Elvis and Oxley want to leave.

 

[Chairman Trigg]

Sorry Ron ,but January will be too late on the playing front as was proved last season.December is the most important month in the clubs history football league pitch wise and the embargo lifting is the last throw of the dice....How ironic that the council in December will probably be proclaiming how they are totally behind the club after 40 years of being it's biggest obstacle .
Strange how 1200+ council homes suddenly make them such big fans .
Did anyone at the trust ask how a three sided stadium in the national league...could ever produce the build of the income generating 4th main stand .Rons original business plan must now be shot to blazes just like the councils High street protection which held the club back.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

For me, embargo or no embargo we're doomed either way.

 

[londonblue]

Sorry Ron ,but January will be too late on the playing front as was proved last season.December is the most important month in the clubs history football league pitch wise and the embargo lifting is the last throw of the dice....How ironic that the council in December will probably be proclaiming how they are totally behind the club after 40 years of being it's biggest obstacle .
Strange how 1200+ council homes suddenly make them such big fans .
Did anyone at the trust ask how a three sided stadium in the national league...could ever produce the build of the income generating 4th main stand .Rons original business plan must now be shot to blazes just like the councils High street protection which held the club back.

Especially as the Jan transfer window closes at the beginning of Feb and, with our track record, we won't be getting anyone in until the window closes.

I hope I'm wrong, but based on past experience...

 

[euroshrimper]

Sterling early Jan and Olayinka late Jan.

Fully expecting we'll see McCormack, Akinola, Sterling and Olayinka decide to leave or go back/be called back.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of Elvis and Oxley want to leave.

I so hope you are wrong but fear you are so right....... I keep thinking how the hell can Ron be getting it so wrong, so many times ! He is alienating everyone that matters and cares for our club........

 

[Neil_F]

This sounds to me like Ron's excuse is that because of the upcoming bailout package he no longer needed to do a TtP because we can use the bailout to pay everything up front but surely it would have been better to arrange one so we could get out of the embargo a few weeks ago?

Probably because agreeing TtP means committing to a payment schedule and then actually paying the cash as agreed. We don't have any cash so wouldn't be able to complete on what we agreed.

The problem is we will use the bailout money to clear the debts and lift the embargo, but every other club will be able to do the same and it will become a sellers' market. Why would any player join us at that point?

We might get lucky and scramble out of it, but it is all too late. There isn't a better strategy from this point but RM is completely accountable for this and a litany of other failures.

 

[in the know]

It is difficult to believe he doesn't have a pen and paper at his side at these things. He either 1. gave it to someone else to do and they didn't 2. forgot to do it 3. remember but like with anything else I'll pay when I get something that sounds like the final demand..

At least it paid I guess.

It's difficult to believe he still can't appreciate the need for a CEO! This just highlights even more

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

It's difficult to believe he still can't appreciate the need for a CEO! This just highlights even more

He can probably still see the need for one...but just can't afford one.

 

[Cricko]

It's difficult to believe he still can't appreciate the need for a CEO! This just highlights even more

He does not want one....that would mean being open to him about details at the club....That won't happen.