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The Youth system and compensation thread

Forums New posts
If the Trust adds cashflow to the Youth Academy, how much does the club pay the Trust when they sell the player to a professional club ?
 
amsemp said:
Poor lad looks absolutely thrilled about it...

View attachment 13402

Jokes aside, all the best Justin. Hope we’re talking about you for all the right reasons in 5 years time ??
Click to expand...

Realistically though. How much does the club make out of these types of deals.

I'm guessing almost nothing upfront with a 100-1 shot if the youth player goes on to the first team.

Apart from the young lad at man City and the kid that went from arsenal to Newcastle. Do we actually make any real money?

Not being cynical. Just genuinely interested.
 
Tommy2holes said:
Realistically though. How much does the club make out of these types of deals.

I'm guessing almost nothing upfront with a 100-1 shot if the youth player goes on to the first team.

Apart from the young lad at man City and the kid that went from arsenal to Newcastle. Do we actually make any real money?

Not being cynical. Just genuinely interested.
Click to expand...

I'm sure RM would want some £'s upfront !!
 
Tommy2holes said:
Realistically though. How much does the club make out of these types of deals.

I'm guessing almost nothing upfront with a 100-1 shot if the youth player goes on to the first team.

Apart from the young lad at man City and the kid that went from arsenal to Newcastle. Do we actually make any real money?

Not being cynical. Just genuinely interested.
Click to expand...

There's a fixed compensation package under the Elite Player Performance Plan. A club is entitled to £3,000 per season for each season of a player's development from U9s to U11s and then Category Three Academies (which we fall under) are entitled to £12,500 per season from U12s to U16s.

So, in this instance, if this player has been with Blues since U9s (and I'm not aware of how long he has been at the club), we'd be entitled to £9,000 for the first three seasons of his development and then £50,000 for the next four seasons, totalling £59,000.

However, the annual fixed fee system is only used where the two clubs can't agree on a compensation fee in advance. In this instance, there's a chance that West Ham would've paid more in compensation due to the fact that other clubs were interested. That's why the fee for 13-year-old Finley Burns was inflated so highly.

There's loads more information about the EFL Youth Development here.

---

Which brings us to the next component of the question, which is whether we generate any real money through compensation for youth players leaving before they are offered a scholarship with the club. The comparison, surely, in that instance is whether we generate any money through transfer fees for first-team players that don't come through the Academy.

Let's consider a 15-year-old player that joined the club prior to his U12s season that moves to another elite club, generating £12,500 per season compensation, so £50,000. How many players have left Southend in, say, the last decade and generated transfer fees of a comparable amount or greater? And then how many of those weren't actually Academy graduates?

The last two players to leave the club for a fee were Academy graduates (Charlie Kelman and Isaac Hutchinson (albeit he joined us as an U23s player at the end of his scholarship with Brighton)). We received a fee for Stephen Humphrys (undisclosed, although it's likely to have been of a comparable amount), and prior to him, Nathan Bishop (Academy product).

Prior to that, Tom Hopper left for a fee reported to be £150,000. Prior to that, we received fees for Dru Yearwood and Taylor Curran in 2019 (both Academy products), Jack Bridge in 2018 (Academy product) and Daniel Bentley and Jack Payne (Academy products) in 2016. In 2018, we received around £700,000, reportedly, for Ryan Leonard.

In 2013 we received a six-figure fee from Fleetwood Town for Ryan Cresswell, and twelve months earlier we received an initial £200,000 for Kane Ferdinand (Academy Product) from Peterborough United.

So, in summary, in the past decade, four first-team players (Humphrys, Hopper, Leonard and Cresswell) have left for fees of a comparable or greater amount than the compensation gtenerated by an U15 player who joined the club as an 11- or 12-year-old leaving for another elite club. In the same time nine players that have come through the Academy at the club have left the club for a fee.

---

Then there are the youth players that have come through the ranks that are still with the club and have the potential to break through and become first-team regulars (currently Elvis Bwomono, Tom Clifford and Terrell Egbri could lay claim to that definition, with Harry Seaden, Harry Phillips, Matt Rush and the injured Lewis Gard all regular squad members, plus others who have appeared and are yet to fully break through such as Eren Kinali, Callum Taylor and Miles Mitchell-Nelson, and scholars who have made first-team appearances in Kenny Coker and Oli Coker). They have both a potential value in the future and a value in the fact that they have played games instead of players that would have to be brought into the club.

And then we return to the point of this thread, which was to highlight the players that have left the club prior to getting to the scholarship stage and generated compensation for the club. This post from earlier in this thread shows 15 players that have left the club in this manner and generated compensation and/or money through sell-on fees, sometimes in excess of six figures.
 
Last edited:
Exiled Shrimper said:
There's a fixed compensation package under the Elite Player Performance Plan. A club is entitled to £3,000 per season for each season of a player's development from U9s to U11s and then Category Three Academies (which we fall under) are entitled to £12,500 per season from U12s to U16s.

So, in this instance, if this player has been with Blues since U9s (and I'm not aware of how long he has been at the club), we'd be entitled to £9,000 for the first three seasons of his development and then £50,000 for the next four seasons, totalling £59,000.

However, the annual fixed fee system is only used where the two clubs can't agree on a compensation fee in advance. In this instance, there's a chance that West Ham would've paid more in compensation due to the fact that other clubs were interested. That's why the fee for 13-year-old Finley Burns was inflated so highly.

There's loads more information about the EFL Youth Development here.

---

Which brings us to the next component of the question, which is whether we generate any real money through compensation for youth players leaving before they are offered a scholarship with the club. The comparison, surely, in that instance is whether we generate any money through transfer fees for first-team players that don't come through the Academy.

Let's consider a 15-year-old player that joined the club prior to his U12s season that moves to another elite club, generating £12,500 per season compensation, so £50,000. How many players have left Southend in, say, the last decade and generated transfer fees of a comparable amount or greater? And then how many of those weren't actually Academy graduates?

The last two players to leave the club for a fee were Academy graduates (Charlie Kelman and Isaac Hutchinson (albeit he joined us as an U23s player at the end of his scholarship with Brighton)). We received a fee for Stephen Humphrys (undisclosed, although it's likely to have been of a comparable amount), and prior to him, Nathan Bishop (Academy product).

Prior to that, Tom Hopper left for a fee reported to be £150,000. Prior to that, we received fees for Dru Yearwood and Taylor Curran in 2019 (both Academy products), Jack Bridge in 2018 (Academy product) and Daniel Bentley and Jack Payne (Academy products) in 2016. In 2018, we received around £700,000, reportedly, for Ryan Leonard.

In 2013 we received a six-figure fee from Fleetwood Town for Ryan Cresswell, and twelve months earlier we received an initial £200,000 for Kane Ferdinand (Academy Product) from Peterborough United.

So, in summary, in the past decade, four first-team players (Humphrys, Hopper, Leonard and Cresswell) have left for fees of a comparable or greater amount than the compensation gtenerated by an U15 player who joined the club as an 11- or 12-year-old leaving for another elite club. In the same time nine players that have come through the Academy at the club have left the club for a fee.

---

Then there are the youth players that have come through the ranks that are still with the club and have the potential to break through and become first-team regulars (currently Elvis Bwomono, Tom Clifford and Terrell Egbri could lay claim to that definition, with Harry Seaden, Harry Phillips, Matt Rush and the injured Lewis Gard all regular squad members, plus others who have appeared and are yet to fully break through such as Eren Kinali, Callum Taylor and Miles Mitchell-Nelson, and scholars who have made first-team appearances in Kenny Coker and Oli Coker). They have both a potential value in the future and a value in the fact that they have played games instead of players that would have to be brought into the club.

And then we return to the point of this thread, which was to highlight the players that have left the club prior to getting to the scholarship stage and generated compensation for the club. This post from earlier in this thread shows 15 players that have left the club in this manner and generated compensation and/or money through sell-on fees, sometimes in excess of six figures.
Click to expand...

What a great post.

That reminds me I have a thread to update.
 
Bearded Shrimper said:
Bentley, Smith, Seaden, Taylor. Bentley stayed for 5 years, if Seaden and Taylor do something similar it could be 10 years between Oxley joining and needing another 1st choice from outside.
Click to expand...
I want to see more of Taylor, have heard v good things of him. We have another coming up behind, George Murray Jones, who has been with the England U16s.
 
Very pleased to see Ricky Duncan stepping up and taking on a more director of football, chief exec role. His work with the academy has been nothing short of spectacular. He’s generated huge sums for the club and having him around the first team should help the youngsters transition far easier.
 
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