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* ORM *

Still Loves Emma Bunton. Roy McDonough is God!
Joined
Nov 7, 2003
Messages
19,295
Location
Flying the flag for SUFC in Sai Kung, Hong Kong
I've had three or four stabs at trying to make this post constructive and I know I'm going to fail at it again. I almost can't think of one positive to take from today's spineless, shameful performance. That has to go down as the world's softest ever local derby. I looked around at the team and they were beaten well before half time, to a man the heads were down and there was a distinct lack of ideas and certainly very little pride on display. Where was Macca today ? Gower bottled everything, including a decent shooting opportunity, until the 85th minute when he seemed determined to try to get himself sent off.

It is a stark reminder at the lack of DECENT investment in players this year and much as it pains me to say it (and no doubt I'll get flamed left, right and centre) the buck has to stop with nobody else but the management. You cannot accuse RM of not making the money available to us but what do we have to show for it ? Two players that would have run their nuts off for us loaned out elsewhere and we have Harrold to "turn" a game. Tilly is a LEGEND and I love him to death but the football club has to be bigger than one man and his record this season, tactically and in decision making (or should that be indecision) has to be called into question. Results over the course of 40 plus games do not lie.

Those of you calling for Foran to replace Bradders up front obviously must suffer from some sort of delusional illness. Bradders put himself about in the first half, getting almost zero help from the referee and much less than that for most of his team mates. His footballing brain seems to be on a different wavelength. Foran seems to have joined a long list of players going back to Scott Forbes that look out of this world on their debut before spending the rest of their career going backwards. Personally I'd have had Hooper in up front but failing that he's the best available option we have, which doesn't actually say a great deal.

It is painfully apparent that some of this squad just don't have the balls for the job. On the plus side we've seen most of them do the business in Div 1 so the summer clearout doesn't need to be that excessive, but hopefully wev'e already started planning. At least IF we get promoted again we'd know which ones have the ability to cope with this division (and that's not a very long list).

Personally I think we should have parted with Freddy in the transfer window (and that's not hindsight I was calling for it at the time). Frankly I'd be amazed if we got £1/2 a mill for him on his performances since the turn of the year.

It wasn't so much our inability to score goals as our total aptitude in conceding too many soft goals especially in the five minute period before and after the break.

I very nearly joined the exodus after the third goal and I blame no-one for making that decision. I'm only amazed that those of us that stayed didn't vent our frustration more vocally than we did. Defeat I can handle. Giving up leaves a very, very bitter taste in my mouth.
 
I don't know what else to add to that. Hear, hear just about sums it up! Very constructive, and you're not the only disgusted person here. Only thing I'll disagree on is Bradbury. I don't doubt that he has a great footballing brain, but he doesn't, IMHO, have the mobility or pace to bring it out (maybe 7 years ago, though). I blame some of Freddy's barren spells on him for not being to draw more than one defender to leave acres of space for Freddy like the Goat was able to do, and he just can't score. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that one :D other than that, well said!
 
I think after 34 years of watching I'm entitled to voice an opinion. :p And where in my post did I suggest anything other than supporting the team - as I an many others on here continued to do in the mid 80s with crowds around the 2,000 mark, long before the glory hunting day trippers got involved.
 
Only thing I'll disagree on is Bradbury. I don't doubt that he has a great footballing brain, but he doesn't, for my, have the mobility or pace to bring it out (maybe 7 years ago, though).

I don't disagree with that observation. I'm just stating (badly) that Bradders is a better option than Foran, but not as good a choice as Hoops or Paynter.
 
I think ORM makes some valid points in there with the obvious pain and disappointment at watch Southend fold so easierly today still the underlying tone.
I do get a bit sick of Bradbury bashing as he always gives his all. Hunt does his best in any position he is put.
Harrold looks eager and hungry if a bit raw, but his enthusiasum makes up for it.
If we go down, I would be delighted if we kept all the current squad and management as I feel we are stronger than when we got promoted.
Add a couple of additions to give us more strength in depth and I can see no reason for us making a swift return and swapping places with ColU in the process.
It was clear to see today, that we only needed to get into 3rd gear to get 3 points but we struggled to get out of neutral.
ColU have clearly got confidence, team sprit, and a good finisher in Cureton, but little else. With a little luck along the way, thats all you need sometimes Good luck to them if they can over achieve and pull off a surprise and stay up against all the pundits.
Its not over yet!
 
Those of you calling for Foran to replace Bradders up front obviously must suffer from some sort of delusional illness. Bradders put himself about in the first half, getting almost zero help from the referee and much less than that for most of his team mates. His footballing brain seems to be on a different wavelength. Foran seems to have joined a long list of players going back to Scott Forbes that look out of this world on their debut before spending the rest of their career going backwards. Personally I'd have had Hooper in up front but failing that he's the best available option we have, which doesn't actually say a great deal.

That argument is used every time for Bradders. The fact is I could give my all for the team if I played up front but I'm still not championship quality. Foran obviously has the ability and I get more excited with Richie on the ball than Bradders. Four goals in a season from a striker is ridiculous, give Foran a chance up front and see how he does.
 
Have to disagree with you on Bradbury, cant run, cant shoot, rarely wins a header, and no support for Freddy. Should have been axed a long time ago.
 
Have to agree with Orm here as imo Bradbury was probably our best player especially in the 1st half and as for Foran, well i actually hope he was out on the lash last night because at least he would have an excuse for that performance and the only surprise was that he didn't get subbed before half time.


And why JCR didn't start was the strangest management decision i have seen for a while, but that is for a different
thread i feel.
 
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If you thought there was some tits out on that pitch today you should tune to Sky Channel 909!!!!!!!

Its better than Sky 1 as they are about to show the lowlights from Roots Hall today.



quiet evening in is it! :)
 
ORM, I agree entirely with your original post.

If, as seems increasingly likely, we are to go down, I would put the principal reason down to the size of our squad. Last season we won the title despite, not because of, the small squad we had, so it was vital that, moving up to a level higher than most of the squad had ever played at before, and losing our most experienced player, we increased the size of our squad with players with the ability and experience to cope at this level. Yes, there were some very good signings, such as Clarke and JCR (counting him as a summer signing), but way too many decidedly dodgy ones. All this "we'll only bring in better than what we've already got" doesn't seem to ring true when you look at some of those signings. Yet still, in the summer we needed to sign more players, in January we needed to sign more players, in the loan window we needed to sign more players. Nothing happened and now we are paying the price.

You are spot on about Foran. He scores one rather lucky goal and people seem to think he is prolific. I was very excited about his arrival, and particularly after his goal against Burnley, but I do not understand this constant infatuation with the idea of playing him alongside Freddy. Against Leeds, Hull and Colchester he has looked very poor, and when he has had the chances to score, even from a centre forward position, he has hoofed the ball high and wide time after time. Another one of our failings this season is we have not had a partnership up front. I rate Bradbury, and think he makes a positive contribution to the game, but he has no support from anyone, I was watching him and Freddy today and there is no understanding whatsoever between them, they do not talk to each other like Cureton and Iwelumo were.

I think you're right that were we to go down, we would have the basics of a successful squad, but as I've already said, it needs to be added to! We cannot try and get by on a minimal squad - it just won't work!! I think no Premiership manager in his right mind would want to take Freddy this summer, maybe someone in the Championship might, but even then I'm not so sure. I think his best option if we did go down would be to start again, regain his form by banging the goals in, then we might be able to make a profit on him. But whether he stays or goes, we desperately need some fresh blood up front, either someone like the Goat who can give Freddy the support and encouragement he needs, or else a brand new, exciting lethal strikeforce, which means players not currently under the employ of SUFC!!

I am also one who just doesn't leave a game early. But I do understand those who did, I did contemplate it myself and I certainly spent the final ten minutes feeling very uneasy, uncertain and uncomfortable.
 
Must confess before today I would have put Foran in ahead of Bradbury but after his first half performance which wasn't just bad... more totally inept I would rather see Doris the west stand tea lady play up there. Never been a fan of Bradbury but thought he was head and shoulders our best player today which really doent say much for the rest of them.
 
Must confess before today I would have put Foran in ahead of Bradbury but after his first half performance which wasn't just bad... more totally inept I would rather see Doris the west stand tea lady play up there. Never been a fan of Bradbury but thought he was head and shoulders our best player today which really doent say much for the rest of them.

I think in all fairness to Foran, he was being played in a totally alien position to where he should be playing. He plays up front or on the left side of midfield, so why on earth play him on the right, given that is the one position we dont need to worry about this seaosn, I have no idea.

The only person to blame for that is Tilly, simple as that.

I like Bradders for his endeavour and commitment, and I have no doubt he does possess a decent footballing brain, but you have to say that when you are the lowest scorers in the division, and one half of that misfiring strike force only has 4 goals, then something clearly isnt working.

A lot of that is down to the service from midfield, no denying that, but even so, Bradders for all his hard work and effort has zero penetration and just doesnt cause opposition defences anywhere near enough problems.

Freddie's work rate at times is inexcusable, but he is a threat, no denying that, and as much as we may not like that, you would never drop Freddie over Bradders.

Billy Paynter has never been given any kind of crack of the whip down here, and yet goes on loan to another poor team and wins player of the month award - Only someone who is either incredibly incompetent or is not willing to eat humble pie would not bring him back for the last five games to try and salvage something - Our need is far more important than Bradford City's!

Do the right thing Tilly, get Paynter back here tomorrow!
 
Billy Paynter has never been given any kind of crack of the whip down here, and yet goes on loan to another poor team and wins player of the month award - Only someone who is either incredibly incompetent or is not willing to eat humble pie would not bring him back for the last five games to try and salvage something - Our need is far more important than Bradford City's!

Do the right thing Tilly, get Paynter back here tomorrow!

Why would he want to come back to somewhere where he was given no chance and less respect by the fans when he is obviously well appreciated where he is? Would we see the new confident Billy, or would he revert to the "sick before a home match" Billy? Your dig at Tilly ("incredibly incompetent or is not willing to eat humble pie") doesn't exactly take into account all the circumstances and is somewhat unfair, RC. I suspect that there is simply little point in bringing him back.
 
good point why would billy want return now, he is obviously in bradfords plans and wasn't made welcome here was he
 
Why would he want to come back to somewhere where he was given no chance and less respect by the fans when he is obviously well appreciated where he is? Would we see the new confident Billy, or would he revert to the "sick before a home match" Billy? Your dig at Tilly ("incredibly incompetent or is not willing to eat humble pie") doesn't exactly take into account all the circumstances and is somewhat unfair, RC. I suspect that there is simply little point in bringing him back.

No offence, but what exactly have we to lose? Answer, nothing!!

Yes, the fans treated him appallingly, no question, and I have no idea why either, as whenever I have seen him play, he has always given his all and has looked far more likely to score than Bradders. He may not want to return, but he has little say in the matter, he is contracted to play for us, and whilst he may have had a bad start with the fans, what an opportunity now to put 2 fingers up to all those who barracked him and help us salvage something?

I dont think my dig at Tilly was at all unfair, look at our bench today and you tell me why we have 2 players out on loan scoring and doing well and they are not back here with us? Sorry, no excuses for not bringing them back and trying them, they certainly wouldnt be any worse than what we have. He is the manager of this club, he should be doing everything in his power to keep us up, it is in his power to bring one or both of them back and give them a shot, he isnt doing it. Instead, we go into matches with a bench so weak and lacking of options it is untrue.
 
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