Tillys lack of experience.

[IloveShrimp]

I am begining to wonder if Tillys lack of experience is costing us now.

I don't mean actual managerial experience as he has been with us for a few years now, what I mean is 'top level' experience.

He having never played at the higher level, it just seems to me that when we see teams who do have a manager who has come a higher level, their teams are more tactically aware than ours, especially when going forward and breaking down defenses.

Their teams seem to defend better as a unit, keep their shape and be generally better organised.... not to mention they cheat better and seem to win lots more free kicks in dangerous areas than us.

Perhaps Tilly needs a better assistant than Paul Brush or visa versa (assuming that it is Tilly is the one who is actually doing the managing).

I have lost count now of just how many times our management has been out thought by the opposition tactically.

Could it be time for some sort of shake up!

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Jesus the man's a maricle worker with his resources. I think John Still put it nicely a few seasons ago when we failed to beat D&R in a meaningless cup game. I paraphrase. "I could not understand the negative chants aimed at the manager. He has OVERACHEIVED with the resources available at the club".
Says it all really.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Playing at the top level is no indication of how good a manager will be. If this were the case Bobby Moore and Bobby Charlton should have won shed loads as managers instead of the square root of **** all they actually achieved.

Arsene Wenger & Lawrie McMenemy as far as I am aware did not play professionally and that was not a hindrance to them. That cretin Graham Taylor was a journeyman at lower league level yet this idiot went on to manage England FFS. Oh and an interpreter at Barcelona went on to have and is still having a decent career as a manager.

 

[WickfordShrimper]

Jesus the man's a maricle worker with his resources. I think John Still put it nicely a few seasons ago when we failed to beat D&R in a meaningless cup game. I paraphrase. "I could not understand the negative chants aimed at the manager. He has OVERACHEIVED with the resources available at the club".
Says it all really.

Agreed 110% God some people have short memories...

Wth our recent money problems without Steve Tilson we would be in non league football now with Oxford n Luton Town ..lol

 

[Beefy]

He's got no contacts too, let's not forget. :whistling:

 

[McNasty]

Playing at the top level is no indication of how good a manager will be. If this were the case Bobby Moore and Bobby Charlton should have won shed loads as managers instead of the square root of **** all they actually achieved.

Arsene Wenger & Lawrie McMenemy as far as I am aware did not play professionally and that was not a hindrance to them. That cretin Graham Taylor was a journeyman at lower league level yet this idiot went on to manage England FFS. Oh and an interpreter at Barcelona went on to have and is still having a decent career as a manager.

Uxbridge Shrimper ?

 

[Beefy]

It's funny how Tilly wasn't inexperienced when he had some decent players.

 

[IloveShrimp]

Some of you are missing the point.

Not once have I mentioned about replacing Tilly, I quote my own post 'Perhaps Tilly needs a better assistant'

For the record I am fully behind Tilson.

 

[Beefy]

You haven't explained why you feel that Paul Brush should be a scapegoat. Plus getting rid of one would make the other's position completely untenable.

The need for complex tactics is completely overstated, especially when we're on a poor run. Players probably forget 90% of what they are told when the whistle goes and the match is underway. Tilly has always been someone who gets performances out of players by keeping it simple and getting the players to believe in themselves. Over the past 18 months he's had to work with players of a lower standard than the few years before that which is why he's turned the team into one that is as solid as it can be, with hard-working players in place of the likes of the Mahers and Gowers of the past. We're not getting results right now and aren't hard to beat but I think that's more the result of the chopping-and-changing of the team, the uncertainty over the Club and the tiny squad that we've had. We've probably got a lower-midtable group of players and are lower-midtable in the division. Asking for any more that this on these resources is unfair and unrealistic.

 

[Csboy]

'iloveshrimp' also misses the point that if we get rid of Brush the club will have to pay off his contract which is money the club can't afford right now and for what to bring in whom exactly? Tilson is clearly happy with Brush as his assistant they have been together for over 6 years and have had great success over the years. Pairing him with someone else is likely to be a disaster.

 

[Sean 2]

Of course there will always be someone better than Tilly/Brush, but we'll never be able to afford him!

I see what you are saying, but when we win do you not think that T&b's tactical ability was great? Bearing in mind we win a fair bit mind.

Two ways of looking at it ILoveShrimp.

 

[timeveritt]

i think your talking bollocks.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I am begining to wonder if Tillys lack of experience is costing us now.

I don't mean actual managerial experience as he has been with us for a few years now, what I mean is 'top level' experience.

He having never played at the higher level, it just seems to me that when we see teams who do have a manager who has come a higher level, their teams are more tactically aware than ours, especially when going forward and breaking down defenses.

Their teams seem to defend better as a unit, keep their shape and be generally better organised.... not to mention they cheat better and seem to win lots more free kicks in dangerous areas than us.

Perhaps Tilly needs a better assistant than Paul Brush or visa versa (assuming that it is Tilly is the one who is actually doing the managing).

I have lost count now of just how many times our management has been out thought by the opposition tactically.

Could it be time for some sort of shake up!

Brilliant.

You suggest that Tilly hasn't enough top flight experience and therefore that he should therefore sack the former top flight player who is his assistant manager. I think this is definitely the way forward. Maybe he could get in Mourinho or Wenger as his assistant?

 

[The Big Shrimp]

I think he needs a nasty streak & a knowledge of defending. We never defend corners with players on posts or have players with set defensive duties e.g. the end player of the wall helping to line it up.

We have defended well almost accidentally, rather than through knowledge!

 

[Maidstone Shrimper]

i think your talking bollocks.

That says it all. Tilly and Brush are our main asset right now. There are a handful of managers who can produce great teams given a massive budget, there are any number of managers who consistently fail despite however much money they have to burn. Steve Tilson has adjusted to having a reasonable budget, a low budget and just now no budget and still produced. What would an assistant from "the top flight" achieve? A demand for more expensive players? We have to accept that right now we've got to do our best with a minimal outlay. Tilly and Brush have motivated an average set of League 1 players with (in the last couple of months) a set of below average loan players to grind out a set of results that is just keeping us safe. That is our aim just now. Maintain our League 1 status for this and next season. Tilly and Brush are our our best option for achieving this. Let's support them and hope that come January we can bring in just a bit more quality, permanently or on loan.

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

A thread deserving of red like no other

Duly done

 

[Richard_Cadette]

To be fair, it is just his opinion, not sure he needs to berated quite so much just because the mahority differ in theirs!

That said, I can't agree that Tilly's lack of experience, top flight or otherwise, can be attributed to our current inconsistent form. Given the financial constraints placed on him, I've never once heard him publicly moan, criticise or complain, he just gets on with it, and that is admirable. Tilly is a decent manager, and the combination of him and Brush has been in place long enough, with a decent level of success, to know that they know what they're doing at this level.

Conversely however, I would be cautious about blaming every bad result on our current predicament. We didn't lose at Exeter because we have little money, we lost because under performed yet again away from home, and too many players didn't do as they should have. We cannot have a culture where players can be excused for not playing well just because we have off field difficulties, and we as supporters should recognise the difference between a poor performance and a team not being able to compete with our opponents.

 

[TrueBlue]

To be fair, it is just his opinion, not sure he needs to berated quite so much just because the mahority differ in theirs!

That said, I can't agree that Tilly's lack of experience, top flight or otherwise, can be attributed to our current inconsistent form. Given the financial constraints placed on him, I've never once heard him publicly moan, criticise or complain, he just gets on with it, and that is admirable. Tilly is a decent manager, and the combination of him and Brush has been in place long enough, with a decent level of success, to know that they know what they're doing at this level.

Conversely however, I would be cautious about blaming every bad result on our current predicament. We didn't lose at Exeter because we have little money, we lost because under performed yet again away from home, and too many players didn't do as they should have. We cannot have a culture where players can be excused for not playing well just because we have off field difficulties, and we as supporters should recognise the difference between a poor performance and a team not being able to compete with our opponents.

well said mate

 

[mattytheshrimper]

i've said it a million times, tilly has done amazing with what he has to put up with up the years. if we owe him anything its for pure devotion and loyalty.

i for do not want to lose someone with those morals. they are hard to come by in football these days and credit to him for that.

the only thing i completely agree with in this thread is the fact i think he can be very naive when playing away. our game is play for the win but when coming up against teams away from home we get un-done too easily imo. we need to have a plan B. we play the exact same away as we do at home.

fair play for tilly trying to his best to play the game and get all 3 points. but sometimes it doesn't work like that and we need to have a plan to fall back on and defend as a unit.

this year and previous years we look like our defence is going to make a mistake any second and without naming names this usually comes from a certain right back.

i can't help that think tilly needs to go back to basics with defending. e.g. getting goal side, head ups rather than slowly walking when the other team has a corner. constantly being alert. i don't think thats too much to ask. but sitting behind the goal in the south upper i watch the marking and it is shocking. you can see the big guy walking around on his own getting his head on the ball and scoring the easiest goal of his life.

this sort of thing is costing us. i didn't actualy realise but we have only won 7 league games i belive this season. really even with the squad we have with isn't great but we should still have a better record than that.

 

[BigKahunaBurger]

Tillys lack of experience??????

I'm guessing your still a teenager with a comment like Tilly and brushes lack of top flight experience? We are Southend United for god's sake. We are a small team that not too many others give a hoot about. Tilly has worked miracles at the club. His record is fantastic. We still compete. He is true blue. No other manager is Southend through and through. We have no right to even be in league one really but we are because of our excellent manager. We have no money either. We need to consolidate and pray for better times ahead. Another manager won't change a thing at Southend. He'd still have no money to spend and he wouldn't care about the place either.