Tilson

[RPG]

I know this post will **** off 99% of posters on this board but I am realy don't think Tilson is up to managing at this level. Tilson has been fantastic for us over the past couple of years BUT the Championship is a completly different level.

If you look at yesterday's game playing two defenders in Midfield proved disasterous. You may argue that we had no options through injury and lack of form but this has partly been down to the poor buys pre season. Clark, Painter, Fransis, Hammel nor JCR are any better than the players we have or the players released / sold. Does anyone believe that letting Bentley go was a wise decision?

Tilson can also not seem to be able to make tactical discisions through a game ie changing formation and his substitutions (apart from Norwich) have generaly been made too late to make an impact.

Whilst I agree that we were always going to struggle this year as there has been a massive jump in the standard of football it is crucial that we stay in the division. For those that say look at Crewe - Dario Gradi (who has been at the club for the past 50 years!) with due respect we have ambitions to move to a 22K new stadium and within a few years challenge for the Premiership, Crewe were just happy to be in the Championship. It is therefore esential that we consolidate!

An option may be to bring in a Director of football that way Tilson can concentrate on coaching. Tilson can not seem to bring in any loan players - this could be down to contacts and experience. Bringing in someone with experience Managing at this level to take over the responsibility of transfers etc maybe an option for example Royle, Worthington or Megson?

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (RPG @ Nov. 01 2006,08:47)]with due respect we have ambitions to move to a 22K new stadium and within a few years challenge for the Premiership

Playing devils advocate here but do you not think this is maybe just a RM pipe-dream though to maybe help secure the new stadium?  Do you honestly thing with FF we can do a Reading or a Wigan?

I am not 100% sure we can, for a club like Southend to survive in the Championship is a monumental task (it is after all the 5th biggest league in Europe in terms of financial turnover).  OK, we've seen occurences of our potential in the past, such as LDV Final I, Man Utd (anyway how much of this hype is plastic Essex reds?) etc etc but I still think with the new ground we'll maintain around a 12,000 to 15,000 average.

Although fair point, as I've stated elsewhere, we do need somebody in to freshen up coaching, tactics etc. My only worry would be if a Director of Football was appointed long-term, it would undermine Tilson's supposed authority and he would walk at the first opportunity!

 

[Shrimpbizkit]

I agree I think Tilly needs some help, someone like Dave Bassett or David Pleat, someone with Premiership contacts, able to get players in and let Tilly do the job of coaching and managing the players. However this could disrupt the chemistry that Tilly and Brush have had.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Shrimpbizkit @ Nov. 01 2006,09:25)]I agree I think Tilly needs some help, someone like Dave Bassett or David Pleat, someone with Premiership contacts, able to get players in and let Tilly do the job of coaching and managing the players. However this could disrupt the chemistry that Tilly and Brush have had.

Please no not Pleaty!

Most people on here will have been spared his rambling rantings on the Barcalona v Chelsea game last night but he is a total joke (much like ITV's football coverage in fact). Him and the commentator spent the whole 95 minutes on a Chelsea love-in, everything Lampard did was sublime, every bad challenge Barca did was cynical (this despite Chelsea trying to bully Barca at every opportunity). They also kep hinted how biased the ref seemed. Idiots!

As for Basset, I'd rather have Bertie in a position of some power at SUFC!

 

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] (RPG @ Nov. 01 2006,08:47)]for example Royle, Worthington or Megson?

**cough** **Splutter**

I understand where you are coming from, but if any of them come any where near us Id be gutted.

Whilst I have a huge amount of respect for Tilson (and certainly want him to stay) Ive never actually bought in to the idea he is a superb manager. He has done wonders for this club but his tactics, subsititutions etc have never given me the impression he is a great footballing manager, albeit he has been great for us the past few years.

Whilst I dont think he is as gifted as claimed by our faithful he has done a great job for us, and will continue to do so. To start calling for a change after 15 games in the hardest league we have ever been in is daft. We have just leapfrogged from League Two into the CCC and from playing Barnet to playing West Brom. Its a huge jump and unfortunately we never had time to really build the squad and are playing whats essentially our league two side.

Admittedly Tilson has bought a couple of questionables (Paynter/Clarke) however I think Francis and Hammell are actually both better than what we had and are decent signings. (Despite people seeming to want to lay the blame at their door).

Personally I dont want Tilson out, I dont see who would actually come here that would be any better.

 

[palexander]

I've been saying for a month or so now that Tilly is possibly out of his depth now.

Promotions from Leagues 2 and 1 were fantastic achievements, but I wonder how much of it was down to momentum and how much was down to Tilsons ability.

The team selections are very odd, even given our available players and the summer buys havent really worked out. When we brought Francis, Hammell and Clarke in particular, the opposing clubs fans were gutted to lose them.

Why then, have they not shown anywhere near the class we expected?

Ricketts was a risk that could have worked, but I dont blame Tilly too much for that - it was worth a go.

Even Paynter came with some amount of backing from his clubs...

Do you think it would be good for Tilly to bow out soon ('mutual consent') and for us to get someone more experienced in at this level (Nigel Worthington??) rather than us getting relegated with some record levels of points/goals against and risking souring his excellent name?

My big fear is nothing is happening to apparantly change the situation. I'm sure Tilly is trying 110% to get loans in, but as others have said, if nobody will bend over and let Tilly take a player (which they may for somebody else) there isnt much he can do pesonally.

My other massive fear is the side selection. For me, when you are struggling like this, its best to get the best 11 out for the job, not mixing and matching each week. The strongest 11 that should be playing week in week out at the moment should be...

1. Flavs
2. Francis
3. Hammell
4. Sodje
5. Barrett
6. Guttridge
7. Maher
8. JCR
9. Gower
10. Eastwood
11. Harrold

Lets get back to basics and put our confidence in this 11 for a few weeks?

I do wonder how long Martin will give Tilson what with all the plans for the future. Its all well and good saying that Tilly has a job for life and wanting to offer him and Brush new deals, but trouble is, when it goes wrong its hard to go back on that!!

 

[Smiffy]

A good start would be playing people in their right positions.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Our problem last night wasn't that the players weren't good enough, it was that the players weren't confident enough. The lack of belief was shocking. Tilly has in the past talked about the importance of team spirit and in giving players the belief to play. Well, that is precisely what is wrong with this current team.

 

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] (pboreham @ Nov. 01 2006,09:55)]1. Flavs
2. Francis
3. Hammell
4. Sodje
5. Barrett
6. Guttridge
7. Maher
8. JCR
9. Gower
10. Eastwood
11. Harrold

I agree with that team, however if we played that team then people here would be criticising Francis, Hammell, Guttridge and JCR.

Lets face it Francis hasnt been great at Right back and Gutts form is awful and if Tilly had left them in constantly we would be slating him for doing so.

He changes it, we still get beaten he gets slated.

The main problem I see is that we arent good enough as a team, and when we have to change players through injury or poor form we dont have any depth to bring in decent alternatives (eg Hunt for Francis, Clarke for Gutts)

 

[palexander]

Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Nov. 01 2006,10:02)]

Quote[/b] (pboreham @ Nov. 01 2006,09:55)]1. Flavs
2. Francis
3. Hammell
4. Sodje
5. Barrett
6. Guttridge
7. Maher
8. JCR
9. Gower
10. Eastwood
11. Harrold

I agree with that team, however if we played that team then people here would be criticising Francis, Hammell, Guttridge and JCR.

Lets face it Francis hasnt been great at Right back and Gutts form is awful and if Tilly had left them in constantly we would be slating him for doing so.

He changes it, we still get beaten he gets slated.

The main problem I see is that we arent good enough as a team, and when we have to change players through injury or poor form we dont have any depth to bring in decent alternatives (eg Hunt for Francis, Clarke for Gutts)

Yup, I do agree to an extent, but my point is Tilly has tried to change things with what he has - and it hasnt worked.

Gutts has got the message after being dropped and I just want to see everyone back in their normal positions and try to get some stability in the side.

Nobody knows what they are doing any more and to me, this is a perfect example of a manager in panic mode...

 

[Flinty]

Reading through the endless threads on here since last night and perhaps when everybody calms down they will realise what a difficult task Tilly has.....lets look at the evidence...

At the start and early part of our bad run people were slating Prior, JCR, Bradbury & Paynter. All should be dropped for others. Now the others have been brought in comments now appear like Prior should be back in the team, we miss JCR, we miss Bradbury's class and we could do with Paynter!!!!

Then we have Hunt and Francis should be swapped and someone needs to plug the midfield to shore up the defence. Now its why are 2 defenders playing out of position what is Tilly doing.......hang on chaps the majority wanted that

I posted ages ago that for some reason we didn't get the players we wanted, Hammell, Francis and Clarke being the exception. Harrold was obviously wanted but as a squad player IMHO & Paynter was a last minute....sh!t lets get somebody in....not his fault. Apart from that the rest of our targets obviously weren't interested. As also stated on here the 3 defenders all came with glowing reference and we all appluaded Tilly.....now they are all duffers and Tilly doesn't know what he is doing......

I do however agree that some of our formations, selections and substitutions do seem a bit strange, but you only learn from mistakes and i believe when you lose. You rarely learn a lot from winning every week (as a manager). Tilly is in-expierenced we all know that and he will make mistakes as well. What we need to watch and judge him on is probably the 2nd half of the season to see if he has learnt anything...a risk i know but what do you expect from trainees (if you like to look at him as that)

Lets get off his back as we have all proved on this board that we have got less idea than him in reality and all thethings we have offered up to resolve isues have backfired......funnily enough the latest team proposed that we should play was the one that started the bad run that people wanted changed..

rant over and sorry about the spelling can't be bothered to proof read....

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (pboreham @ Nov. 01 2006,09:55)]1. Flavs
2. Francis
3. Hammell
4. Sodje
5. Barrett
6. Guttridge
7. Maher
8. JCR
9. Gower
10. Eastwood
11. Harrold

Understand what you're saying mate but the problem is that X1 is nowhere near good enough to keep us in this division and if we persevere with it for a number of weeks without getting 3 or 4 new faces in we'll be cut too far adrift at the bottom to have any chance of surviving the drop.

 

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] ]Gutts has got the message after being dropped and I just want to see everyone back in their normal positions and try to get some stability in the side.

If he hadnt made the changes we were all demanding he would have been slated, when he made them he is slated too, he is onto a loser unfortunately.

Completely agree that all this changing around cant be helping, in the absence of any new loans stability must be something we should be aiming for.

Quote[/b] (ramblers shrimp @ Nov. 01 2006,11:04)]Reading through the endless threads on here since last night and perhaps when everybody calms down they will realise what a difficult task Tilly has.....lets look at the evidence...
<SNIP>

rant over and sorry about the spelling can't be bothered to proof read....

Wise words...

Personally last night was just a realisation that as a team we just arent good enough.