Today's Court Hearing

[Smiffy]

Ok, as this is a very important day, I think this is worthy of a new thread.

COMPANIES COURT

Court 51

Ground Floor (Mezzanine)
Thomas More Building
Before

Mr Registrar Simmonds

Wednesday 29 July 2009

Not Before 11:00am

15187 /2009 Southend United Football Club Ltd (THE)


So what do we think will happen, theres only two options really?

a) Nothing, adjournment granted and everything can be sorted with HMRC out of court.

b) Winding up order issued, administrator appointed, game over.

c) None of the above.

Everything else, such as transfer embargo's, points deductions etc is all controlled by the Football League. Maybe it will be worth a new thread once today's events have unfolded.

I personally think there is naff all to worry about. Thousands of businesses go through this every week and 99% agree some sort of repayment plan. Why do you think there is so many on that list of hearings! They last but a few minutes and terms are more often that not agreed.

 

[fatshrimp]

When might we expect to hear the outcome? Anyone know this sort of thing?

Where's Irate Ian when we need him!

 

[Pubey]

Ok, as this is a very important day, I think this is worthy of a new thread.

COMPANIES COURT

Court 51

Ground Floor (Mezzanine)
Thomas More Building
Before

Mr Registrar Simmonds

Wednesday 29 July 2009

Not Before 11:00am

15187 /2009 Southend United Football Club Ltd (THE)


So what do we think will happen, theres only two options really?

a) Nothing, adjournment granted and everything can be sorted with HMRC out of court.

b) Winding up order issued.

if it's B, what does that mean for us?

 

[Pubey]

When might we expect to hear the outcome? Anyone know this sort of thing?

Where's Irate Ian when we need him!

I think the last thing RM needs is Ian on his case!

We might know a bit more about what's going on though... troubling times

 

[GBJ]

After the rumours and mystery surrounding this whole issue;

How serious is the threat of;

A) points deduction

B) Transfer embargo

C) Administration

D) The diggers moving onto FF on saturday?

 

[Andyhsufc]

I would say -

C) and A) are very unlikely
B) Not so unlikely
D) Don't make me laugh!

 

[Smiffy]

if it's B, what does that mean for us?

We are ****ed basically. Bye-Bye SUFC.

Winding up order definition:

The process of paying off expenses and creditors, settling accounts, and collecting and distributing (to shareholders and owners) whatever assets then remain, all with the ultimate goal of liquidating or closing down a corporation or partnership.

 

[fbm]

I would imagine that unless a satisfactory arrangement can be agreed with HMR&C BEFORE the hearing, then administration would be the best we could hope for with ONLY a 10 point deduction.

 

[South Bucks Shrimper]

A. It will be adjourned.

Re-read Ron's statement:

http://www.southendunited.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10444~1724059,00.html

Don't panic.

 

[Smiffy]

When might we expect to hear the outcome? Anyone know this sort of thing?

Where's Irate Ian when we need him!

I'm pretty sure RM and his legal bods will apply for adjournment and try and resolve this out of court. Whether it gets granted is another matter.

If it does, then it will be all over in a matter of minutes.

If not, It will still only take 10-20 mins to conclude discussions.

Hopefully Scriv is there and has his laptop powered up. If so, I expect we shoud hear some news around lunch-time...

 

[Lester Bangs]

Thanks for posting this Smiffy, have been trying to find out exactly where and when the hearing is.

 

[Napster]

My prediction is nothing will happen.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

My prediction is nothing will happen.

I hope you're right. My ramblings on the situation are here.

My hope is that, in return for paying HMRC's legal costs, HMRC will agree to drop the petition and allow us to schedule the tax debt. Although why we have to wait until the door of the court to agree that deal is rather beyond me.

If we go into court, that's when I'll start worrying.

Matt

 

[fbm]

In case anyone missed it, here is MtS's excellent post on another thread

http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?t=52804&page=10

 

[mike101]

Ron has a duty (in law) to his other shareholders, to not make misleading statements. It is inconceivable that he would have lied about the HMRC 'accident' in issuing the winding up order; the potential consequences would far out way any short term gain.

 

[dloman]

I hope you're right. My ramblings on the situation are here.

My hope is that, in return for paying HMRC's legal costs, HMRC will agree to drop the petition and allow us to schedule the tax debt. Although why we have to wait until the door of the court to agree that deal is rather beyond me.

If we go into court, that's when I'll start worrying.

Matt

I have to agree entirely as to why if we can schedule the debt why it has gone to the last second, though there is the possibility that other creditors hve joined the petition, then as i understand it the court is bound to keep the petition open.

 

[Andyhsufc]

I hope you're right. My ramblings on the situation are here.

My hope is that, in return for paying HMRC's legal costs, HMRC will agree to drop the petition and allow us to schedule the tax debt. Although why we have to wait until the door of the court to agree that deal is rather beyond me.

If we go into court, that's when I'll start worrying.

Matt

That is probably going to be the best case scenario. How much do we reckon HMRC's legal costs are going to be? Or would we be insured for that?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

We are ****ed basically. Bye-Bye SUFC.

Winding up order definition:

The process of paying off expenses and creditors, settling accounts, and collecting and distributing (to shareholders and owners) whatever assets then remain, all with the ultimate goal of liquidating or closing down a corporation or partnership.

Not strictly true. Winding-up a company turns its technical insolvency into a legal one. Once insolvent, there are then two routes out of insolvency - administration and liquidation.

In layman's terms, the latter is a "fire-sale" - strip the company's assets and sell them off with a view to realising as much money as possible for the creditors, before closing the company down.

The former seeks to maximise returns for creditors by "rationalising" the company - i.e. reducing overheads (invariably sacking staff) and maximising any business opportunities. The creditors then need to agree new terms for their debts - usually, to accept that they will only recover a proportion of their debts (e.g. 20p in the £), and that they will recover their debts over a fixed period. The company can then trade its way out of its insolvency, having substantially reduced and rescheduled its debts and having had the benefit of a third party (the administrator) coming in and getting rid of staff and any other underperforming parts of the business.

If the administrator can achieve that, his ultimate aim is to allow the company to exit adminsitration as a viable, going concern - i.e. it continues trading again as a normal company. However, if he can't achieve that (and he'll have a fixed period to do so, usually a year), then he'll put the company into liquidation (see above).

Matt

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I have to agree entirely as to why if we can schedule the debt why it has gone to the last second, though there is the possibility that other creditors hve joined the petition, then as i understand it the court is bound to keep the petition open.

Correct - and, in order to get the petition withdrawn, Ron would have to strike deals with all of the co-petitioners. However, since the club's main creditor is Ron / Martin Dawn, one rather hopes that there aren't too many other significant creditors crawling out of the woodwork.

How much do we reckon HMRC's legal costs are going to be? Or would we be insured for that?

Impossible to know. £20k-30k would not be beyond the pale. We won't be insured for that.

Matt

 

[Smiffy]

Not strictly true. Winding-up a company turns its technical insolvency into a legal one. Once insolvent, there are then two routes out of insolvency - administration and liquidation.

In layman's terms, the latter is a "fire-sale" - strip the company's assets and sell them off with a view to realising as much money as possible for the creditors, before closing the company down.

The former seeks to maximise returns for creditors by "rationalising" the company - i.e. reducing overheads (invariably sacking staff) and maximising any business opportunities. The creditors then need to agree new terms for their debts - usually, to accept that they will only recover a proportion of their debts (e.g. 20p in the £), and that they will recover their debts over a fixed period. The company can then trade its way out of its insolvency, having substantially reduced and rescheduled its debts and having had the benefit of a third party (the administrator) coming in and getting rid of staff and any other underperforming parts of the business.

If the administrator can achieve that, his ultimate aim is to allow the company to exit adminsitration as a viable, going concern - i.e. it continues trading again as a normal company. However, if he can't achieve that (and he'll have a fixed period to do so, usually a year), then he'll put the company into liquidation (see above).

Matt

Thanks Matt.

I'm sure it will not come to that anyway.

Just a slight case of squeaky bum for us lot this morning.