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Breaking News Today's Echo - Who owns the Blues?

Yorkshire Blue

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I have looked at MD's accounts and there is little there .

As for having faith in the accounts, I have looked at these accounts and many other of SUFC accounts and whilst I can see things which are not particular inspiring regarding the state of the clubs finances, i have not seen anything which indicates anything particular "criminal".
Now I am likely to have missed something, I am not a top notch financial wizard, but that said , in all the accounts SUFC have submitted over the years, I can not recall any comments about specific items in the accounts which look dubious and out of keeping with prior years figures (except maybe the aforementioned asset revaluation in 1994) .

To a degree I would like to be wrong, I would like someone to point out something specific I have missed, i would love to see concrete evidence that Ron has embezzled, screwed, raped or whatever is the SZ phrase of the day, the club. I would love to have someone specific to blame and focus my anger on rather than be sitting here with the current opinion that I have that the club I love has been unsustainable for many many years unless i am content with the lower reaches of League 2 every year.

It's all relative, and compared to most of the posts on here you are a financial wizard.

I shouldn't have repped you earlier as I should have saved it for the last paragraph. Absolutely spot on.

I think that is the whole crux of the matter..2 companies sets of accounts at most out of what was it 28?and one of them had little there.

Or you could have a look at 92 league clubs' books and try to find the one that is profitable....

If Ron is the honest man that he proclaims to be, why does he run 29 companies,many of whom are registered in overseas tax havens?.

Because it is a completely legitimate thing to do?

You suspected incorrectly. You cannot revalue intangible assets like that, and certainly not by capitalising ongoing salary. That would be like your employer capitalising your wages over the average life-span of an employee.

I think when they value players it is the players' registration rather than their wages. Remember your employer can't buy or sell you like football clubs do for players.
 

Hotman

reason, honour, integrity
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I think when they value players it is the players' registration rather than their wages. Remember your employer can't buy or sell you like football clubs do for players.

Correct, you cannot generate a new intangible asset by renewing a contract simply by capitalising future wages, as was suggested by FBM.
 

A Century United

Firewalking for HD
Joined
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10,004
Yep I do.....I think anywhere he can.....are you still under the opinion he is Whiter than White then?

Let me also make this straight I don't care who run's SUFC as long as we exist but would prefer somebody who is lets say more honest to be at the helm.

I expect I will be the first served with some libel charge.

Where have I ever said that RM was whiter than white? I have simply tried to keep some perspective on a situation that no-one can think is satisfactory. I do however think that personal loathing of RM is leading to people wanting to find evidence of dodgy dealing, when it seems more likely that he has simply run out of money. How he has dealt with that reality is a different question.
 

Yorkshire Blue

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Correct, you cannot generate a new intangible asset by renewing a contract simply by capitalising future wages, as was suggested by FBM.

Thinking aloud here, but are transfer fees not amortised over the span of their contract?

In that case, extending a contract would have an impact on the accounts wouldn't it?
 

Hotman

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Thinking aloud here, but are transfer fees not amortised over the span of their contract?

In that case, extending a contract would have an impact on the accounts wouldn't it?

No.

It's been a while since I looked into it, but basically you cannot generate "internal goodwill".

Michael Owen being case in hand (this was the case I used when I last had to consider this...). Liverpool clearly had an asset there, but FRS 10 prohibits you from capitalising your own asset as there is no ascertainable market value. Same way as you couldn't just chuck a lump of "goodwill" into a set of accounts without actually purchasing it.

If the player was owned by a third party, and you had to pay a renewal fee, you would be able to capitalise that over the course of the extension.

If it is your own player, the wages are no different from the wages of an employee (say a ticket office member) and shouldn't be capitalised. You would also be over-stating profits by not disclosing the cost of employing that individual
 
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class

SZ's Official Accountant⭐
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Player Purchases and sales go into the profit and loss account, the player registrations are capitalised and amortised over the length of the contract, when acquired. This is the accounting policy described in the latest SUFC accounts.
 

Hotman

reason, honour, integrity
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No.

It's been a while since I looked into it, but basically you cannot generate "internal goodwill".

Michael Owen being case in hand (this was the case I used when I last had to consider this...). Liverpool clearly had an asset there, but FRS 10 prohibits you from capitalising your own asset as there is no ascertainable market value. Same way as you couldn't just chuck a lump of "goodwill" into a set of accounts without actually purchasing it.

If the player was owned by a third party, and you had to pay a renewal fee, you would be able to capitalise that over the course of the extension.

If it is your own player, the wages are no different from the wages of an employee (say a ticket office member) and shouldn't be capitalised. You would also be over-stating profits by not disclosing the cost of employing that individual

PS Agents fees on renewal (external costs) can be capitalised and spread over the period.
 

Yorkshire Blue

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Player Purchases and sales go into the profit and loss account, the player registrations are capitalised and amortised over the length of the contract, when acquired. This is the accounting policy described in the latest SUFC accounts.

PS Agents fees on renewal (external costs) can be capitalised and spread over the period.

Cheers chaps
 

Hotman

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Not "Sundry Expenses" - Admin Expenses. And as Firestorm has pointed out ad nauseum, these have stayed pretty much constant since the early '90's - and the Auditor isn't going to have signed them off without knowing what they are, and being satisfied that they are legitimate. Do you honestly think that RM is so dim that if he is ripping off the club, he is going to do it via such an obvious area of the accounts?

The "auditor" might not care, seeing as Vantis PLC (HLB Vantis do the audit...) have gone into administration today!
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/oh-irony
http://www.sharecast.com/cgi-bin/sharecast/story.cgi?story_id=3545124
http://www.accountancyage.com/accountancyage/news/2265621/vantis-heading-administration
 
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Firestorm

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There is no evidence to substantiate claims that RM has been taking any money from SUFC to prop up his other businesses, if he wanted money from SUFC surely he would just call in some of the Millions in debts which SUFC owe the parent undertaking, other than a small reduction in the debt to the parent Undertaking, as reported in the last accounts and discussed on that thread there is nothing to indicate that SUFC's indebtedness has reduced.


WRONG....

in 2009 SUFC paid back almost 50% of the money they owed to SEL (522,720 out of 1,161,732)

There were investments / Financing of 1.3M Loans 400K - guaranteed by RM, 606K deed of assignment against MD's property in benfleet 45 K loan from MarkScheffel and 80K loan from Lockett.
 

Shrimpergarry

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver⭐
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yogi bear up the cagire

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So, to sum up .............in a week of revelations and frantic posts..............absolutely nothing has changed................ apart from Martin's credibility, that has shrunk to somewhere near the size of our squad for next season..............or even smaller, if that could be possible. On the bright side.........................doesn't the transfer window open tomorrow? ;)
 

fbm

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Player Purchases and sales go into the profit and loss account, the player registrations are capitalised and amortised over the length of the contract, when acquired. This is the accounting policy described in the latest SUFC accounts.

So Grant's 2.5 year extension would have an effect on the capital account, yes? Am I understanding you correctly?
 

Cricko

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Hotman

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So Grant's 2.5 year extension would have an effect on the capital account, yes? Am I understanding you correctly?

No it won't.

The only thing that can be capitalised is any agents / other external cost, amortised over the length of the contract extension.

Wages are a P+L expense, whether you are a shopkeeper or a football club.

A signing on fee (if paid) would be deferred over the period, but not capitalised.
 
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