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Bielzibubz

President
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4,757
Location
Eastwood, the posh part of Rayleigh..
Folks, I've kept myself deliberately quiet this past week or so and been quite content to let everyone else post their thoughts and opinions about everything that's been going on around the club of late. That's not because I don't have opinions myself, far from it, I just didn't see the point of airing them.....until now.

I could drone on and on about the where with all's about what I believe has brought us to this point. I could probably counter some of the more negative posts with some quite eloquent and concise replies. That's not to say that I see things as all rosy in the SUFC garden, far from it, but I still remain confident and optimistic that RM and those working for him behind the scenes will see these troubles out and we'll all be singing the clubs praises in a few weeks time.

Why do I think this you may ask. Well, for many reasons if truth be told but one really above all else that this old and haggled brain keeps on coming back to. I cannot for the life of me envisage the £35m+ stadium plans that Ron Marting has put together for Southend United's new home being put into jeopardy for the sake of a £660.000 tax bill. Does anyone really think that Sainbury's would put at risk the prospect of their new flagship store, to be the third largest in the country, not getting off the ground for the sake of what would be a dip into their piggy bank knowing that to not do so in some way would surely sink all their carefully laid out plans. Sainbury's NEED and must compete with Tesco's in the area and Roots Hall is the only place they will ever get to do just that, and they know it.

To my way of thinking, and I know diddly squat about how big business works, there is far far to much at stake financially for both RM/MD and Sainbury's to let it all fail due to what is, taken in the great scheme of things, a drop in the financial ocean. Considering what has already been spent, what is planned to be spent and most importantly of all, what potential profits can be made by all parties long term and I really cannot see how Southend United will be allowed to fail.

Anyway, that's just my two penneth worth. Some may agree and maybe some won't, and I dare say some will denounce me as dillusional and in need of being sectioned, and they may be right, but I refuse to let the troubles we now find ourselves in obscure what little bit of common sense I have left.

UP THE BLUES

Phil
 
Exactly.

The club has been deliberately quiet.

Reminds me of the saying "no news is good news."
 
I just had a big post written out but lost it. :(

Anyway, I agree. It wouldn't surprise me if Ron is basically playing a high-stakes poker game with all this to get what he wants. It's what he did the last time we had a Winding Up petition against us, after all.
 
I just had a big post written out but lost it. :(

Anyway, I agree. It wouldn't surprise me if Ron is basically playing a high-stakes poker game with all this to get what he wants. It's what he did the last time we had a Winding Up petition against us, after all.

Oh God!!!! .......that's SO annoying, happened to me a few times ......just a slip of the finger on the key and 1/4 or 1/2 hours work up in smoke!
 
I believe that the covenant would protect the land. In reality, if no Football Club was using the land at Roots Hall for an extended period of time then it would probably be sold to Sainburys or someone else. But if a reformed Southend United wanted to play there then it could well be be expensive and time-consuming legal wrangle. No one gains from us going under, that I can see.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong please, but if we do go breasts skyward on Wednesday Sainsbury's will still be able to have their shiny new store at Roots Hall, and the previous owners of the land get their bunce?

No, I believe a covenant was included in the plans that prevented just such a scenario. I could be wrong though. Also, when ever has another league one or two club ever gone bust and actually ceased to be a football club? Between them I would imagine that RM/MD and Sainsuby's have getting on for £100m tied up in one way or another in the two schemes, both in money spent, planned expenditure and future income.
 
Sainbury's NEED and must compete with Tesco's in the area and Roots Hall is the only place they will ever get to do just that, and they know it.
But the chances of Sainsbury's putting £700k up against a plot without the required planning & even some doubt over an area (prospects) being available are pretty remote.

As also said SUFC doesn't own the land & covenant/schmovenant, if the club isn't there to use it RHL/SEL can sell it to whoever they like in time.
 
No, I believe a covenant was included in the plans that prevented just such a scenario. I could be wrong though. Also, when ever has another league one or two club ever gone bust and actually ceased to be a football club? Between them I would imagine that RM/MD and Sainsuby's have getting on for £100m tied up in one way or another in the two schemes, both in money spent, planned expenditure and future income.

To answer your question Accrington & Maidstone. The current Accrington Stanley is nothing to do (apart from the name & town) with the original Accrington club. I am not sure if another Maidstone club has risen from the ashes of Maidstone United. Aldershot went bust and fought their way back to gradually regain their league status.
 
On a slightly related topic ... and probably more for the general football forum than here though i'm sure it'll be moved if neccessary .. what happened to Chester City at 5:30 today ?? I've been so wrapped up in all things SUFC that it slipped my mind

They were threatened with expulsion from the Conference if they hadn't paid certain bills, and this is after weeks of legal postering rather than the days we've had
 
On a slightly related topic ... and probably more for the general football forum than here though i'm sure it'll be moved if neccessary .. what happened to Chester City at 5:30 today ?? I've been so wrapped up in all things SUFC that it slipped my mind

They were threatened with expulsion from the Conference if they hadn't paid certain bills, and this is after weeks of legal postering rather than the days we've had

They have been given another 3 weeks to find the money they owe to Wrexham for away tickets sold and Vauxhall Motors for a loan player.
 
To answer your question Accrington & Maidstone. The current Accrington Stanley is nothing to do (apart from the name & town) with the original Accrington club. I am not sure if another Maidstone club has risen from the ashes of Maidstone United. Aldershot went bust and fought their way back to gradually regain their league status.

Thanks Harry. Perhaps I should put it a different way. Have any clubs with the kind of future potential for growth and increased revenue new stadium would give ever gone bust completely? With all due respect to those clubs you mentioned we are, I believe, not in the same boat. If we'd never got the planning permission and if we'd never had Ron Martin come in with his plans and vision for our future (regardless of his initial motives) then I'd be truly worried and be more inclined to compare our current situation with those that both Accrington and Maidstone went through.
 
They have been given another 3 weeks to find the money they owe to Wrexham for away tickets sold and Vauxhall Motors for a loan player.

Thanks for the info weststander ...
]
Jeez, if they have taken cash for a future match that is not theirs in the first place then they are in serious sheet, i don't suppose they've handed out any 2 1/2 year contracts recently have they ??
 
I am not sure if another Maidstone club has risen from the ashes of Maidstone United.

Yeah they did but they've not exactly been pulling up trees. They're in the Isthmian Premier, which I'm guessing is one down from the Blue Square South. They groundshare with Ashford about ten miles from Maidstone and struggle to get 400 to home matches.
 
But the chances of Sainsbury's putting £700k up against a plot without the required planning & even some doubt over an area (prospects) being available are pretty remote.

As also said SUFC doesn't own the land & covenant/schmovenant, if the club isn't there to use it RHL/SEL can sell it to whoever they like in time.

They have got the planning for Roots Hall. I believe they have also been given consent to start work on the car park area even before we have vacated Roots Hall. Unfortunately their plans are part and parcel of the FF development, with the amendments to those plans having yet to be passed by Southend Council.

And I'm led to believe the Prospects situation is settled and won't be a problem.
 
Thanks Harry. Perhaps I should put it a different way. Have any clubs with the kind of future potential for growth and increased revenue new stadium would give ever gone bust completely? With all due respect to those clubs you mentioned we are, I believe, not in the same boat. If we'd never got the planning permission and if we'd never had Ron Martin come in with his plans and vision for our future (regardless of his initial motives) then I'd be truly worried and be more inclined to compare our current situation with those that both Accrington and Maidstone went through.

On that premise then the answer has to be no. The original Accrington club went under nearly 50 years ago, and it was an entirely different era when clubs called the tune on players, and not the other way around.

To be fair to Ron Martin he has achieved more in his attempts to get theclub a new home than any other chairman, however his efforts may crash on the rocks of HMRC. We just have to hold our collective breath, keep all available digits crossed and pray to whatever god that the club survives, and hopefully can thrive.
 
...I cannot for the life of me envisage the £35m+ stadium plans that Ron Martin has put together for Southend United's new home being put into jeopardy for the sake of a £660.000 tax bill.

Thanks Phil for putting the alternative perspective. I actually agree with you - I think RM has actually invested too much (financially, time and emotionally) for this to fail now for what is, in the overall scheme of things, a small unpaid bill.

What lies at stake is a multi-million pound property development which, don't forget, is reliant on the stadium in order to proceed (through complicated legal agreements linked to the planning permission). That's not to say that the whole thing could not eventually proceed if the club went bust - but it would be a whole lot more difficult and would take, IMHO, a few more years to sort out through further applications and public enquiries. RM would also have lost a lot of goodwill and credibility in the town and I'm pretty sure the Councillors would be far less favourably disposed towards him.

In business terms, it makes no sense for him to allow the club to go bust. I also think RM has a lot invested emotionally in SUFC. He is not some Sheikh or Russian billionaire who has invested in a football club as a play thing - he has shown a fair degree of personal commitment towards the club and I think has been bitten by the same bug that has got all of us. After all, what Chairman would make the effort of going to Carlisle at a critical time for his business unless there was some emotional attachment to what is occurring on the pitch as well as off it?

My guess is that he will be wheeling and dealing up until the 11th hour so that he loses the least money through this tax deal. My suggestion is that:
  • The bill will be paid in full today or just before we go to court tomorrow
  • Payment terms will be agreed with HMRC today or 1st thing tomorrow so that the winding up order is withdrawn
  • Negotiations will be so far advanced by tomorrow that HMRC will ask for an adjournment and we'll all be on tenterhooks for a while longer

What I don't think will happen (and sincerely hope and pray that I am right) is that the club will be wound up in court tomorrow morning. I don't think RM will let that happen - I just hope he puts us all out of our misery today to let us know that!
 
What I don't think will happen (and sincerely hope and pray that I am right) is that the club will be wound up in court tomorrow morning. I don't think RM will let that happen - I just hope he puts us all out of our misery today to let us know that!

No that wont happen, we will still be here next week...

Yes would be nice to hear from the club but as Ron said in his blog he is unable to discuss it at moment. Im sure it will all work out fine as nervy as it is.
 
Good post, Bielzibubz - one with which, essentially, I agree.

To look at this another way: why would HMRC profit by putting the club into administration / liquidation? Ron will essentially be saying to them: you can wait until Nov 21st, whereupon you'll be paid £1 in the £ for all the monies owed; or you can proceed with the winding up, and you'll get (say) 10p in the £ given how few realisable assets we have.

If that is a reasonable portrayal of the situation in which we currently find ourselves - and, although it's entirely based on my supposition, it's surely a reasonably fair guess as to our current position - I don't see how it would be in the interests of the public purse to wind us up now. HMRC shouldn't be there, acting to make an example of us; instead, it's their public duty to be maximising returns for the taxpayer.

I hope that that's the basis on which Ron is appealing to HMRC to grant us a further stay of execution, and adjournment, of the debt.

Matt
 
Just seen a post from Paul Fitz on the Yahoo Shrimper email group that says: -

Standby statement coming, don't buy those rail tickets just yet!

Is the going to be the administration announcement or will it be good news?
 
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