Tour De France - Mark Cavendish

[number11]

Right, I know absolutely nothing about cycling (never even passed my cycling proficiency test at Earls Hall.....) but obviously know of the Tour de France and it being a huge event, and have heard of the likes of Lance Armstrong, Sean Kelly, Eddie Merx etc.

I know there are a few of you on here who are fans and I just wondered if you could explain something to me.......

The winner of the Tour De France wins the yellow jersey and that is great. The winner of the spints (ie Mark Cavendish) gets a green jersey and he is an all time great at sprinting.

So, I was always under the impression that the tour de france winner was decided by various 'trials' with the overall best time of all the trials winning. I presumed that some of the trials would be testing different skills ie mountains, sprints etc.

So are the sprints that Cavendish does so well at mean he is good at part of it, but not others.....kind of like someone at golf being an awesome driver but woeful at putting? It just seems surprising that he is so lauded yet doesn't appear to actually have any chance of winning the tour de france (going by the odds....).

Also, are there other colour jerseys?


Ta in advance!

 

[MrB]

I'm not a massive fan but I understand that the Yellow is for the overall winner based purely on time wheeras the green jersey is on a point basis by position where the flat stages are worth more points than the mountain stages and time trials. There's then a separate 'king of the mountains' jersey (red polka dots) for the best rider in the mountain stages.

Cavendish accrued a lot of points by winning stages on sprints.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Mr B's got it pretty much spot on. There is also a white jersey for the best rider under 25 based on their position in the general classification (i.e. the race for yellow).

I've been trying to think of other sports that are like cycling with these 'races within a race' as lots of people have been asking me about Cavendish. Suffice to say that in his field, if he retired tomorrow he'd be an all-time great. It's frightening to think what he might achieve, especially as sprinting isn't necessarily a young man's game.

In terms of winning the yellow jersey, you need to be very good in the mountains and physiologically, Cav just isn't up to that. Talent in time trials - racing on your own, against the clock over distances upwards of 40km - is also important and Cav doesn't really have the build for that either. He's all about the short bursts of explosive speed needed in those last 500m.

 

[number11]

Mr B's got it pretty much spot on. There is also a white jersey for the best rider under 25 based on their position in the general classification (i.e. the race for yellow).

I've been trying to think of other sports that are like cycling with these 'races within a race' as lots of people have been asking me about Cavendish. Suffice to say that in his field, if he retired tomorrow he'd be an all-time great. It's frightening to think what he might achieve, especially as sprinting isn't necessarily a young man's game.

In terms of winning the yellow jersey, you need to be very good in the mountains and physiologically, Cav just isn't up to that. Talent in time trials - racing on your own, against the clock over distances upwards of 40km - is also important and Cav doesn't really have the build for that either. He's all about the short bursts of explosive speed needed in those last 500m.

So in essence, it is a bit like a golfer who is awesome at driving and approach play, but a bit pants at putting so he will never win the big event?

 

[Uncle Leo]

So in essence, it is a bit like a golfer who is awesome at driving and approach play, but a bit pants at putting so he will never win the big event?

Ish. In a golf tournament, there is only one prize - that for the winner (prize money apart). At The Open, no-one will get a prize for hitting the most greens in reg. In stage races, it is well established that there are upwards of four jerseys to compete for and that riders of different aptitudes can have their own targets.

 

[number11]

Ish. In a golf tournament, there is only one prize - that for the winner (prize money apart). At The Open, no-one will get a prize for hitting the most greens in reg. In stage races, it is well established that there are upwards of four jerseys to compete for and that riders of different aptitudes can have their own targets.

So does that diminish his reputation that he is never likely to win the Tour De France?

Are there any Olympic events that he can compete for?

 

[Uncle Leo]

So does that diminish his reputation that he is never likely to win the Tour De France?

Are there any Olympic events that he can compete for?

In terms of cycling history, those capable of winning multiple stage races, such as Eddy Merckx, Jacques Anquetil and dare I say it, CAS pending, Alberto Contador will always be regarded as the main men. But great sprinters have their place in the pantheon too - people such as Sean Kelly, Erik Zabel and the Freddy Maertens.

In terms of the Olympics, Cavendish will have a good chance in the road race, which is likely to be set up in a similar fashion to the sorts of stage he wins on the Tour - a few hills, but mostly flat and with a nice straight finish.

PS, check out this clip. Sprint cycling can be a dangerous game!

[video=youtube;2Nt4x3nuzfQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nt4x3nuzfQ[/video]

 

[number11]

Cheers James and B,

For the general public like me I guess a good showing in the Olypics could be his chance to gain a widespread reputation in this country....

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The Tour de France typically consists of 21 daily races. The yellow jersey (or general classification) is about the combined time of all 21 stages. Some riders (and teams) ride to win the yellow jersey, some riders (and teams) ride to win stages.
To win a stage is a career highlight for most professional cyclists.

Cav won 5 of them this year. No-one else won more than 2 stages.

He's now basically done this four years in a row. In just four years of his career (maybe a third of his career) he has won more than all but five(?) riders in history have in their entire careers.

 

[canveyshrimper]

The Tour de France typically consists of 21 daily races. The yellow jersey (or general classification) is about the combined time of all 21 stages. Some riders (and teams) ride to win the yellow jersey, some riders (and teams) ride to win stages.
To win a stage is a career highlight for most professional cyclists.

Cav won 5 of them this year. No-one else won more than 2 stages.

He's now basically done this four years in a row. In just four years of his career (maybe a third of his career) he has won more than all but five(?) riders in history have in their entire careers.

But what ultimately is deemed the more important, winning the Tour or winning a number of stages? If you look in the record books they'll give the tour winner and not much else. I'm not denigrating Cavendish as even a non cycling enthusiast like me can recognise his achievements.

 

[Uncle Leo]

But what ultimately is deemed the more important, winning the Tour or winning a number of stages? If you look in the record books they'll give the tour winner and not much else. I'm not denigrating Cavendish as even a non cycling enthusiast like me can recognise his achievements.

Winning the Tour. However, going back to the idea of cycling history, it's likely that Cavendish will end up with a higher 'ranking' (so to speak) than one time winners such as Oscar Pereiro and Bjarne Riis (the latter was a drugs cheat anyway)

 

[canveyshrimper]

Winning the Tour. However, going back to the idea of cycling history, it's likely that Cavendish will end up with a higher 'ranking' (so to speak) than one time winners such as Oscar Pereiro and Bjarne Riis (the latter was a drugs cheat anyway)

Thanks James it's what I would have thought.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

But what ultimately is deemed the more important, winning the Tour or winning a number of stages? If you look in the record books they'll give the tour winner and not much else. I'm not denigrating Cavendish as even a non cycling enthusiast like me can recognise his achievements.

I think a list of cycling greats would rank Cavendish above a one-time TdF winner like Cuddles (notwithstanding the fact that Evans has also won the World Championships).

Comparing sprinting to GC riding is like comparing Paavo Nurmi to Jesse Owens. They are different disciplines. The yellow jersey is probably like the 100m in it's the most prestigous award, but the Usain Bolt of cycling is currently Cavendish.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I think a list of cycling greats would rank Cavendish above a one-time TdF winner like Cuddles (notwithstanding the fact that Evans has also won the World Championships).

On Cuddles, I used to really quite dislike him, both for the fact that he never attacked and, more so, the fact he is Australian.

However, since winning the World Championships in 2009 he seems to be a changed cyclist and I was really pleased to see him win the Tour (even though I'd had £20 on Andy Schleck)

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

On Cuddles, I used to really quite dislike him, both for the fact that he never attacked and, more so, the fact he is Australian.

However, since winning the World Championships in 2009 he seems to be a changed cyclist and I was really pleased to see him win the Tour (even though I'd had £20 on Andy Schleck)

Agreed. He was very whiny as well - oh you've already said he's Australian.

But he won my respect with some really gutsy riding. He doesn't really attack so much as grind away as he hasn't the kick but on the earlier stages he seemed to be the only one of the contenders who was trying to win it.

I'm sure I've posted this before, but it still cracks me up

[video=youtube;FikzgWE3t0A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FikzgWE3t0A[/video]

Also did you see it this year where he "accidentally" squirted Cav with a water bottle?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Also did you see it this year where he "accidentally" squirted Cav with a water bottle?

[video]http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=Cadel+%27accidentally%27+throws+water+at+Ca vendish+after+Stage+7.+Aimed+at+Security&dashboard=tour-de-france&id=rBtqSRsVkBc&yr=2011[/video]

Whilst hunting for that clip I also found the incident where he head-butted the TV camera.

I might now have to dig out the one about stepping on his dog as well now.....

 

[Mr Plow]

Thread bump

What a story, the Manx Missile is back from nowhere with two stage wins to move within two of equalling Eddy Merckx's record.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/57686066

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

His enthusiasm, his overwhelmed happiness at his wins is something special, magnificent Cav.

 

[pottster]

Totally amazing, last year he had no team. Wasnt even due to go to the tour but was a last minute entry due to bennetts injury. Most thought he was going to retire last year, especially the amount of set backs he has had. Should be interesting if he can make it over the Alps to try and match mercx record

 

[Dave Smiths Love Child]

TDF is a bit like horse racing in terms of wins/stages

TDF you have expert sprinters, mountain climbers and riders that will assist a fellow rider to win a race and get him in the position to win the race purely sacrificing their own position in the team

Similar horse racing has pace setters in long races, sprinters who will never go above 6 furlongs and then longer distance horses that will never have the pace over 5-6 furlongs

The argument then is who is the greatest horse of all time, can never be truly decided as each distance will have a different outcome and persons favourite

Similar F1 is Hamilton an all time great as he has won in the best car, its all about opinions

TDF is a great sport to watch if only to understand the strength these riders have, alas like many sports drug performance is rife and sadly kills it for those that are true honest sportsman, similar Athletics nowadays tainted by cheats.

For me the greatest TDF was Eddy Merckx / Bernard Hinault but that shows my age