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Was Atkinson's rec justified?

  • I was there, yes it was.

    Votes: 23 12.4%
  • I was there, no it wasn't.

    Votes: 55 29.7%
  • Saw it on TV, yes it was.

    Votes: 51 27.6%
  • Saw it on TV, no it wasn't.

    Votes: 56 30.3%

  • Total voters
    185
  • Poll closed .

Jay_SUFC

Manager⭐
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
2,508
I actually have no idea how referees interpret rules these days, there seems to be so much inconsistency in most decisions.

If you look at the rules regarding the difference between a caution and a sending off (I've pasted below) I really don't see how Atkinson has used 'excessive force':

“Reckless” means that the player has acted with complete disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent. (A player who plays in a reckless manner must be cautioned)
“Using excessive force” means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent. (A player who uses excessive force must be sent off)

And don't even get me started on handball :smile:
 

AndyT

Lord of the Reedy River
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
11,936
Location
Hockley
Funny that a week ago against Scunthorpe when Bishop merely tapped Demetriou's ankle, many Blues fans were screaming for a red card and then up in arms when it was rescinded..

I didn't think it was worthy of a red last week, myself, but having been given, I can't see where the FA have clear evidence to overturn it.

If they did on the basis that "excessive force" wasn't used, then they have to over-turn Will's, as well, IMHO, as Jay has pointed out, above.

Marriner was playing to the crowd and his own ego, as usual!
 

RHB

Super Moderator ⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,958
Location
Westcliff riviera
I didn't think it was worthy of a red last week, myself, but having been given, I can't see where the FA have clear evidence to overturn it.

If they did on the basis that "excessive force" wasn't used, then they have to over-turn Will's, as well, IMHO, as Jay has pointed out, above.

Marriner was playing to the crowd and his own ego, as usual!

Blimey Andy, where is your sense of partisanship for crying out loud. That evil nasty Scunthorpe geezer deserved all he originally got, rescinding his red was a travesty of justice. Our really nice bloke Atkinson is too nice for his own good, he crys in the dressing room at half time, and definitely doesn't deserve a red.
 

tommy tucker

Manager
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
1,881
Was not there watched it 3or4 times .Some refs would give it a red some would give it a yellow and a harsh talking too .Will the F A over turn it I very much doubt it . How many times has Atkinson been red carded in the time he has played .Not many I doubt he is not that kind of player .
 

Lord Football

Blues on Tour
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
3,505
Location
Sunny Southend on Sea
That's what you see as an ex ref. The reality of it is both players are going for a lose ball which is bouncing. Will is no higher than the Millwall player, who is also not in control if you see where the ball goes after. So its a 50/50 with both players going for the ball exactly the kind of tackle the red card was not designed for

Its not reckless because there's no clear evidence Will even catches him, again the prove is when the player isn't sure which leg to grab as part of the act.

Of course refs react to the crowd and other players what ever level they are at. Any one who says they don't I might be tempted to say I won't give them the time of day. Then again who would have the cheek to say that on a football forum.

An entertaining attempt at wriggling off the hook, but like an empty vessel your argument holds no water. I kinda admire your tenacity in justifying your position but......

It's not 50/50 the Millwall player had the ball.

The ONLY way that isn't a send off is if Will doesn't make contact, and he does. If he hadn't I am sure PB may have mentioned it.

But actually, your post is a really good example of supporters not really understanding what the Laws do and how you interpret and implement them. Or indeed what goes through a ref's mind. You seriously seem to be suggested that one of the best refs in the land managed to be intimidated by a small group of Millwall fans in a timescale of less than a second. Seriously?

But, let us see what the comments are when we see a tackle like that on a Southend player. I suspect the "experts" will have a completely different point of view.
 

blueveined

Manager
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
1,409
Was not there watched it 3or4 times .Some refs would give it a red some would give it a yellow and a harsh talking too .Will the F A over turn it I very much doubt it . How many times has Atkinson been red carded in the time he has played .Not many I doubt he is not that kind of player .
Pretty sure I read in one match report that that was the first time Will has been sent off.
 

Jay_SUFC

Manager⭐
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
2,508
An entertaining attempt at wriggling off the hook, but like an empty vessel your argument holds no water. I kinda admire your tenacity in justifying your position but......

It's not 50/50 the Millwall player had the ball.

The ONLY way that isn't a send off is if Will doesn't make contact, and he does. If he hadn't I am sure PB may have mentioned it.

But actually, your post is a really good example of supporters not really understanding what the Laws do and how you interpret and implement them. Or indeed what goes through a ref's mind. You seriously seem to be suggested that one of the best refs in the land managed to be intimidated by a small group of Millwall fans in a timescale of less than a second. Seriously?

But, let us see what the comments are when we see a tackle like that on a Southend player. I suspect the "experts" will have a completely different point of view.

Supporters don't have to understand the rules though, but the guy in the middle should!!

Having read the rules on fouls, the Scunthorpe player shouldn't have been sent off, so why was he then?

Regarding the Atkinson decision, it makes no difference whether he made contact or not, he should have only been sent off if he used 'excessive force', which I don't think he did
 

Lord Football

Blues on Tour
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
3,505
Location
Sunny Southend on Sea
Supporters don't have to understand the rules though, but the guy in the middle should!!

Having read the rules on fouls, the Scunthorpe player shouldn't have been sent off, so why was he then?

Regarding the Atkinson decision, it makes no difference whether he made contact or not, he should have only been sent off if he used 'excessive force', which I don't think he did

But surely if are stating "the ref was wrong" you should know why he was wrong and not, as some have done here, just guess or make it up.

So, the Law actually says "A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutalityagainst an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play.
A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play."


You can find that here under Law 12 http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/Foo...ng/02/36/01/11/LawsofthegamewebEN_Neutral.pdf

And serious foul play is a red card. So, the question is... is a late, foot up, lunging, reckless tackle likely to endanger the opponent? If the answer is "yes", off he goes, if the answer is "no", then no he doesn't.

As with pretty much everything to do with the Law, a lot of it is down to interpretation. That's why qualified refs have to do a course and pass it, and are regularly updated, so that they interpret it the same.
 

kentblues

Director⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
5,754
Please. It's a question of judgement- ANY tackle endangers the safety of an opponent at some level and more players are injured in tackles that have no cards at all..

In this case to suggest Atkinson reached the level of using excessive force or brutality is it seems to me faintly ridiculous. I know football these days (particularly in the Prem) is for the most delicate of flowers but even so. Atkinson has never ever been sent off and that should still be the situation.

To me it's now shades of our famous calamity linesman as Wordsworth has now confirmed on Twitter that Mariner marched over to him and said "off you go". Unable to tell the difference between Wordsworth and Atkinson (one is a foot taller with tattoos as well) we are asked to believe none the less his view of the incident was clear enough to issue an instant red card in a nano- second with absolutely no need for any due consideration.
 

Ricky Otto

President⭐
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
6,530
Location
Chelmsford
It wasn't an obvious red card, obviously the fouled player made more of it trying to get the worst punishment but that is just part of the game these days unfortunately. There were no Millwall fans chanting "off, off, off" or such like and I think everyone was shocked when he pulled out the red rather than the yellow.
The rules are ambiguous to protect the refs IMO, technically you could argue that was a red but if you were keeping that kind of judgement consistently then you would probably see 3 red cards a match. It's consistency that I think most fans have an issue with. If Atkinson's challenge was a red then the high boot in MAF face should be a red too, for the record I think both should have been yellows but if you apply the letter of the law to it's fullest degree on one you have to on the other as well. It was a bad decision IMO and after seeing the replay of the penalty shout it wasn't the worst decision he made!
 

rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
14,265
Well the Lord works in mysterious ways. About an hour ago I was in a shop in Woodgrange Drive. Just as I answered a txt about that tackle I looked up and recognised the young man next to me at the counter. Never spoke to him before but I remember he was at Millwall on Saturday.

Anyway we got talking about the game and although he seemed quite shy after a short while he relaxed and we had a real good chat about our team. Apparently we don't find out until tomorrow whether the decision will be overturned. But he didn't think it was a red and we both agreed that 3 games for that challenge is a joke.

He is not sure what the decision will be and we both agreed it looks worse on the TV. Anyway a few of you probably know him, his name is Will Atkinson.
 

Sussex Shrimper

Manager
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
1,674
Accrington had a defender sent off in similar circumstances yesterday, stretching to recover possession after a heavy touch. I think that he might even have got something on the ball before having it knocked out from under his foot by an onrushing player but still: straight red, no hesitation.

If this is now the directive on how the laws should be applied then I suppose you can't blame the refs. It's just a shame, for my money, that the desire of the big clubs to protect their multi-million pound assets from the dangers of anything resembling honest, physical competition seem to be leading us down a path towards a non-contact sport at all levels.

Thankfully playing with 10 men for over 45 minutes didn't stop Stanley from seeing off the "benchmark." :smile:
 
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