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Was this guy right in what he did?

Was he right in complaining about his daughter's teacher?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • No

    Votes: 7 77.8%

  • Total voters
    9
What was it about him that didn’t seem right? Just something about his expression, his demeanour as he interacted with the children, how he held himself.

I'm sure there is a joke there ...

On a more serious note, I think he was right to enquire about the guy. If you leave your kids with someone, then you want to know who they are. Maybe it comes with having kids that you always think the worst to protect them, I wouldn't know.

It also raises how we perceive things, if that was a woman who had the child on their lap then I don't think anyone would have thought twice.
 
I think it says more about him as a person.

Not everyone in the world is a pedophile.

If I had concerns about someone I would certainly rasie them, but the things he says are pretty pathetic.
 
I voted yes. But I wasn't comfortable with it.

But with children, if anything seems wrong, any tiny doubt, then you have to raise it. You may risk upsetting someone, or looking like an idiot, but those are the risks parents should feel comfortable taking for their children, as they are tiny in comparison.

It may seem harsh on the teacher involved, but he doesn't, by the author's account, appear to be looking to set people at ease. It's a sad indication of the world, when a child sitting on an adults lap is deemed sinister, but we've seen too much happen to innocent children to disregard it. And having had it raised, and continuing to do it, he seems to have little disregard for the concerns or opinions of those around him, and in a sensitive environment of children, that just doesn't sit right. It's better to err on the side of caution, and apparently this particular teacher didn't do that.

That said, I get judged on my appearance at work. I work in an office environment with banking exec's and such. I'm visibly tattooed and have a decent sized beard, I've had a mohwak, shaved head and all of these styles have raised eyebrows. But I make a conscious effort to ensure the rest of me is very smart in the way I dress, I make sure I'm well spoken and articulate and it's very easy to set people at ease with your attitude and work ethic. Even then though, I know there are still those that frown on me, because they simply don't believe someone like me belongs in a financial institute.
 
I'm sure there is a joke there ...

On a more serious note, I think he was right to enquire about the guy. If you leave your kids with someone, then you want to know who they are. Maybe it comes with having kids that you always think the worst to protect them, I wouldn't know.

It also raises how we perceive things, if that was a woman who had the child on their lap then I don't think anyone would have thought twice.

Yeah I'm still not sure I know the answer or what I'd do, it's a mind****! Especially as we're viewing nurseries at the moment

He's pretty much got someone sacked (although all he did was raise concerns) - the sitting on lap bit is legitimate, I would probably question inappropriate contact whether male or female, but definitely if my son was sitting on a guy's lap at nursery.

There's quite a lot we don't know - was he actually a paedophile? what were the numerous reasons for why he got sacked? Is the author as much of a bigot as he comes across as? Did the nursery really pander to the complainant as it comes across? They didn't appear to be fully supportive of the teacher.

There is a major issue about how we perceive 'paedophiles' and 'bad people' (c.f. Joanna Yates etc) but then also the author does make a fairly legitimate point about needing to investigate the 'obvious ones' (c.f. Jimmy Saville). If we're always stereotyping paedophiles then we can easily miss those who don't fit our stereotype.
 
I think one thing he doesn't mention is how it's not just his child in potential risk here, and how you probably wouldn't be able to live with yourself if you didn't report it and something terrible happened. I like to think that nurseries would be much more clued up about these kinds of issues and complaints and that they'd be dealt with properly. However the fact that it's a constant struggle to get male primary school teachers (a massive issue with single-parent families resulting in a lack of male role-models for younger children) suggests that more needs to be done.

The Hunt is well worth a watch if you've not seen it. It deals with this issue from the perspective of the accused.

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Is sitting on someones lap considered inappropriate then ?

I would have no issue whatsoever with my kids sitting on a teachers lap. (as long as it was their teacher :smile:)
 
I think this is actually the crux of the matter:

But I think part of the training and responsibility of someone who works in childcare is to instil confidence in both adults and children.

Maybe training to be a nursery nurse/teacher should involve classes on deportment etc...
 
Is sitting on someones lap considered inappropriate then ?

I would have no issue whatsoever with my kids sitting on a teachers lap. (as long as it was their teacher :smile:)

I think it is, but maybe that's due to the times I've grown up in.
 
I'm sure there is a joke there ...

On a more serious note, I think he was right to enquire about the guy. If you leave your kids with someone, then you want to know who they are. Maybe it comes with having kids that you always think the worst to protect them, I wouldn't know.

It also raises how we perceive things, if that was a woman who had the child on their lap then I don't think anyone would have thought twice.

What I highlighted above tells me you know more than you think. That's exactly what most parents think, the worst. When I first went to look at my daughters nursery, I eyed every single person working there with suspision to the point of wanting to follow a couple of them home to see where they lived and what their families and homes were like. Total paranoria on my part of course but that's how i felt. When my son went to the same place I still had to go in there and see if anyone new had started working there, just to ease my ill feelings.

Last Tuesday I went to meet my sons reception class teacher as Joe has a few problems that they know about but we needed to have a chat about. The old feelings were rising simply because his teacher is a male. Pubey's absolutely right, a lot of it is the era and age group you grew up in. After meeting him I feel completely at ease with my son being taught by a male teacher, he was very approachable and although pre-warned knows exactly what challenges are ahead of educating my autistic and under developed son. He has put mind at ease [no mean feat] and has certainly aligned some of my age group fears.
 
What I highlighted above tells me you know more than you think. That's exactly what most parents think, the worst. When I first went to look at my daughters nursery, I eyed every single person working there with suspision to the point of wanting to follow a couple of them home to see where they lived and what their families and homes were like. Total paranoria on my part of course but that's how i felt. When my son went to the same place I still had to go in there and see if anyone new had started working there, just to ease my ill feelings.

Last Tuesday I went to meet my sons reception class teacher as Joe has a few problems that they know about but we needed to have a chat about. The old feelings were rising simply because his teacher is a male. Pubey's absolutely right, a lot of it is the era and age group you grew up in. After meeting him I feel completely at ease with my son being taught by a male teacher, he was very approachable and although pre-warned knows exactly what challenges are ahead of educating my autistic and under developed son. He has put mind at ease [no mean feat] and has certainly aligned some of my age group fears.

When my children started nursery I was the same, and frankly I make no apology for that. However, I did see a couple of nurses there that gave me the creeps, but then I thought logically. They were all CRB checked, and had been through the same vetting. I also think that part of my paranoia was based on guilt; the guilt both my wife and I felt in starting them both at nursery at 3 months old.

My eldest has just started in year 2 now, and also has a male teacher. My wife had a "meet the teacher" morning yesterday and said he came over as a bit of a drip, but all the parents who have older siblings that have been taught by him couldn't sing his praises high enough. By all accounts he's a great teacher. Again, he may come over as slightly drippy, i.e. not what we would consider "normal", but that is just perception. Again, maybe teachers need training in order to come over as more professional if they are found to be lacking in that regard.

The same would have been true for the guy the article is based on.
 
Is sitting on someones lap considered inappropriate then ?

I would have no issue whatsoever with my kids sitting on a teachers lap. (as long as it was their teacher :smile:)

For me this is more to do with Professional boundaries, and I don't personally believe that any Male working with children should be physically in contact with any child (unless restraint is being used for their own safety).
Certainly the teachers behavior would have been deemed 'inappropriate' wherever I have worked.
 
For me this is more to do with Professional boundaries, and I don't personally believe that any Male working with children should be physically in contact with any child (unless restraint is being used for their own safety).
Certainly the teachers behavior would have been deemed 'inappropriate' wherever I have worked.

Surely on that basis then, no female should come into physical contact with any child either though i would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on if their child needed comforting from a fall maybe, perhaps just a cuddle to reassure them.

Actually the author of this article clearly did have a problem with there being a male teacher, in fact he contradicts himself early on. The more recent cases of abuse of children in a nursery environment have pretty much exclusively involved females, there is plenty of evidence if you look up the stories.

On a slightly different note, a well respected headteacher of a local high achieving infant and junior school said to me recently that she would bite their hand off if a good male teacher applied for a position there, but sadly the number of men going into primary teaching is dwindling due to the stigma, parents concerns and now possibly articles like this. Food for thought i feel.

The fact is that there are no more paedophiles now than there were in the 70's, 80's etc, but what is different is that there is now 24 hour media that has pages and airtime to fill with stories and certainly some of these are unsubstantiated. The argument that it is better to be preventative than reactive holds a little weight, but if you were to follow that line then your children would never play outside just on the minute chance they got knocked down by a bus or perhaps never play football or any other sport just in case heading the ball gave them brain damage later in life(one for Mrs blue there!)
 
Having worked in that area for some time, in my opinion, you can't have rules for one sex and not the other. Many young children, particularly in pre-school or nursery settings need the comfort of an adult for many reasons, often young children need the cuddle of an adult to go to sleep - I had one particular girl (big for her age) who always used to fall asleep on my lap during story time at pre-school every session when she first started. You let them do so, then laid them down on the floor with cushions and made sure they were comfortable.

What we always did was ask parents to sign a form when the child started to give permission for their child to be comforted or to allow them to sit on laps. The golden rule was always not to put your arms round them (like you would your own at home) while sitting on the lap. The other golden rule was to always be in the view of another adult so no accusations could be laid at your door.

There is huge discrimination in this area though, and female workers are definitely viewed differently to male. I've seen the discrimination with my own eyes, and a young man disciplined quite unfairly for something when a young woman wouldn't have been dealt with half as harshly. Yet still early learning environments seek desperately for men to provide a nurturing example in their settings, as they are seen as prized employees in the eyes of Ofsted and other authorities.
 
Yet still early learning environments seek desperately for men to provide a nurturing example in their settings, as they are seen as prized employees in the eyes of Ofsted and other authorities.

This is the point i was making though on a primary education front. In these schools 81% of all teachers are female with many Primary schools having no male teachers whatsoever. Unfortunately it is articles and perhaps attitudes such as this that make it a very difficult job to persuade high level male graduates to follow the path into teaching 5 -11 year olds, it is very sad that this is the case.
 
This is the point i was making though on a primary education front. In these schools 81% of all teachers are female with many Primary schools having no male teachers whatsoever. Unfortunately it is articles and perhaps attitudes such as this that make it a very difficult job to persuade high level male graduates to follow the path into teaching 5 -11 year olds, it is very sad that this is the case.

Yes, I definitely agree with you.
 
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