What I can't understand

[Interpol Shrimper]

OK - the consensus seems to be protesting to remove Ron is pointless.
How about as one of my learned colleagues said on another thread, how about protesting to show RM how dis-satisfied we all are and that he must change his dodgy ways if we are all to progress & move on?

That, upon reflection, gets my vote!

 

[palexander]

OK - the consensus seems to be protesting to remove Ron is pointless.
How about as one of my learned colleagues said on another thread, how about protesting to show RM how dis-satisfied we all are and that he must change his dodgy ways if we are all to progress & move on?

That, upon reflection, gets my vote!

As others have said, I think he is in absolutely no doubt how the fan base feels about him and what has happened.

Like I've said earlier in the week - if people really feel that strongly, then write to him and tell him. Phone him, email him whatever. Tell him YOU personally are not happy.

Write to the Echo, the BBC, Sainsburys - whoever. Why does they have to be this mob culture? (not a dig at you, just in general!)

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

As others have said, I think he is in absolutely no doubt how the fan base feels about him and what has happened.

Have you asked him?

Do you know if he actually cares about the unrest he has caused?

I am surprised how some people seem to just want to put their heads in the sand and pretend everything is rosy. It has not been for a while in fact longer then these same people care to remember and until things are definite, such as we have paid the debts so we do not have to keep appearing in court, all the players are signed onto full contracts, the embargo is lifted than I apologise if I appear a tad sceptical of Ronny boy.

Back to OP

The problem with protests being organised some people can feel intimated by them, a protest is best when it is backed by numbers, and to achieve this is needs to feel welcoming to all.

I was not there last night due to family issues, but I always feel that if a group appear aggressive, people will stay away . It is far better to have a silent massive protest then a loud small one.

 

[palexander]

Have you asked him?

Do you know if he actually cares about the unrest he has caused?

I am surprised how some people seem to just want to put their heads in the sand and pretend everything is rosy. It has not been for a while in fact longer then these same people care to remember and until things are definite, such as we have paid the debts so we do not have to keep appearing in court, all the players are signed onto full contracts, the embargo is lifted than I apologise if I appear a tad sceptical of Ronny boy.

Back to OP

The problem with protests being organised some people can feel intimated by them, a protest is best when it is backed by numbers, and to achieve this is needs to feel welcoming to all.

I was not there last night due to family issues, but I always feel that if a group appear aggressive, people will stay away . It is far better to have a silent massive protest then a loud small one.

I love this argument getting trotted out on everyone's negative posts.

I would think that NOBDOY thinks this is 'rosy'. NOBODY is 'happy'. NOBODY is 'burying their head in the sand'.

If they are, then more fool them.

I'd suggest we are all VERY worried about the club, its future etc - all some of us are saying is there appears to be signs of a brighter future and with the Ron situation, there is very little that can be done as there are no alternatives.

So some of us are choosing to focus our energies on the few positives that remain, than bring the club down further with protests and hatred.

 

[Beefy]

Have you asked him?

Do you know if he actually cares about the unrest he has caused?

I am surprised how some people seem to just want to put their heads in the sand and pretend everything is rosy.

I don't think anyone on here has given that impression. Even those posters who have been so hilariously accused of 'being up Ron Martin's arse' have said in pretty much every post that they've made just how unhappy they are with a lot of what has gone on in the recent past.

I actually think that it's a lot of those people who are so keen on removing Ron Martin, as if he is the underlying cause of all the problems that Southend United Football face, who are the ones with their heads in the sand. Until the Club is either fundamentally re-structured to be self-sufficient (probably in the bottom half of League Two) or until someone takes over from Ron Martin who has the sort of deep pockets needed to subsidise a chronically loss-making football club who lose cash at an alarming rate, then this is our lot, I'm afraid.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

I love this argument getting trotted out on everyone's negative posts.

I would think that NOBDOY thinks this is 'rosy'. NOBODY is 'happy'. NOBODY is 'burying their head in the sand'.

If they are, then more fool them.

I'd suggest we are all VERY worried about the club, its future etc - all some of us are saying is there appears to be signs of a brighter future and with the Ron situation, there is very little that can be done as there are no alternatives.

So some of us are choosing to focus our energies on the few positives that remain, than bring the club down further with protests and hatred.

So you have missed the bit in bold 'seem' which should quantify my opinion of the current posts I am reading. It is not declaring it as a fact but by reading the posts you could be forgiven for thinking that people are. I used that expression for the simple fact it is used so often on here.

Also I would not consider it to be a negative post just one of caution, of course IMHO you do seem to take offence at anything that does not back up your opinion.

 

[Beefy]

Also I would not consider it to be a negative post just one of caution, of course IMHO you do seem to take offence at anything that does not back up your opinion.

That could be said of 90% of the posters on here (myself included). Everyone is constantly on the defensive because we're all so unhappy about things.

 

[palexander]

So you have missed the bit in bold 'seem' which should quantify my opinion of the current posts I am reading. It is not declaring it as a fact but by reading the posts you could be forgiven for thinking that people are. I used that expression for the simple fact it is used so often on here.

Also I would not consider it to be a negative post just one of caution, of course IMHO you do seem to take offence at anything that does not back up your opinion.

Apologies for missing that then, but like Beefy says, I dont get that 'seemed' (is that a word?! :) ) impression.

I really dont mean to take offence, its just a lot of people want to be so negative that they themselves seem to have buried their heads in the sand to the bigger picture.

We are in the ****. Ron put us there. He HAS put his hands up and apologised for his portion I believe (in the Vlogs) and now hopefully we have learned a painful lesson and can get through it.

Anyways, lets see what events Thursday brings.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

We are in the ****. Ron put us there. He HAS put his hands up and apologised for his portion I believe (in the Vlogs) and now hopefully we have learned a painful lesson and can get through it.

Very very vaguely and even then has apportioned a lot of the blame onto people who were more the effect than the cause (e.g. certain players, Tilson & Brush, the change in HMRC policy etc.)

 

[palexander]

I replied and deleted my post before I get accused of licking Rons nether regions again... *sigh*

End of the day, Ron takes most of the blame, but the other factors all contributed to the situation we are in now too. Tilson was not an untouchable god and however he was removed and how sad it was, time moves on and we needed a change.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

Tilson was not an untouchable god and however he was removed and how sad it was, time moves on and we needed a change.

True but unfortunately the hand Tilly was dealt with for the past 2 seasons means we would never know for definite if Tilly's management had been found out, i.e. that his success was all down to Eastwood, as some have said on here.

I honestly believe that Tilly will be a better manager for his experiences here, he would have no doubt learnt a lot over the past 2 seasons.

 

[palexander]

True but unfortunately the hand Tilly was dealt with for the past 2 seasons means we would never know for definite if Tilly's management had been found out, i.e. that his success was all down to Eastwood, as some have said on here.

I honestly believe that Tilly will be a better manager for his experiences here, he would have no doubt learnt a lot over the past 2 seasons.

Ah yea for sure. A great man manager apparently, but not a master tactician. Seemed to be a manager that could get a good bond between players and keep that momentum going - but when things werent going his way, had little idea of how to instigate a change.

I'd like to think he'd get another league job and would follow his career with interest obviously - he was still one of my favourite players, so I'll always be a fan.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

I replied and deleted my post before I get accused of licking Rons nether regions again... *sigh*

End of the day, Ron takes most of the blame, but the other factors all contributed to the situation we are in now too. Tilson was not an untouchable god and however he was removed and how sad it was, time moves on and we needed a change.

Don't think you needed to delete that last post, it made sense to me, despite not neccesarily agreeing with every word.

It does appear people today are a lot less of the "this is my opinion & I won't listen to yours" mentality and there is maybe some common ground being opened up by the two opposiing factions. Maybe this is what happens as we get closer to a ball being kicked in anger (assuming no High Court meltdown before the big kick-off)?

Oh & despite us not seeing eye to eye, I've not once stooped to saying you're an RM "asslicker"...

 

[palexander]

Don't think you needed to delete that last post, it made sense to me, despite not neccesarily agreeing with every word.

It does appear people today are a lot less of the "this is my opinion & I won't listen to yours" mentality and there is maybe some common ground being opened up by the two opposiing factions. Maybe this is what happens as we get closer to a ball being kicked in anger (assuming no High Court meltdown before the big kick-off)?

Thanks Glasgow... i assumed mods can see deleted posts. I just felt it took too much blame away from Ron and I didnt want to kick off another circle of arguments :)

Despite posting far too much on here recently (I'm meant to be running a business! :D) and contributing to the discussions myself too much, it is tiresome to have these factions arguing all day long when we all want to talk about football.

 

[Firestorm]

I have thought about this for a long while and I haven't really come up with a solution so I thought I would put it on here.

I realise that the way a number of the players / management have been treated is far from ideal, but I am struggling to think of an alternative (other than magicing money out of thin air) of rapidly dealing with the problem of an excessive wage bil which needed cutting immediately in order to stabilise the bottom line and secure the nessecary financing for the future.

The players were well paid and were happy to take the money, they couldn't have been transferred , Francis for example, turned down Peterbro' in the January window, therefore costing us a further 6 months of his salary in addition losing the 150K transfer fee (if he's on 2K a week and assuming Sankofa would have stepped in thats 200K we could have used to pay HMRC or other players wages), but no bids came in. (Brentford and Franno aside, there were no rumours until the players had decided that they wanted out).

Given the lack of cash in the club, I think relegation was inevitable (I certainly think RM thought so) , true we may have got enough points to stay up if we had paid the players, but I think that administration would have been forced by those who would not have been paid and we were not good enough to get that many points.

So how could RM have dealt with this better ? lets avoid the sniping and slagging off of other posters and think, what actually could he have done differently , given the need to massively reduce the wage bill....

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Thanks Glasgow... i assumed mods can see deleted posts.

Perks of the job :p

Oh & I put another bit on my last post too, upon contemplation.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

...what actually could he have done differently , given the need to massively reduce the wage bill....

Relegation clauses on contracts for one.
I know people have said do these exist in "real world" and not just on Football Manager but take Burnley for example a lot of their guys were on relegation clauses for their (inevitable) fall out of the PL. It's been confirmed by Chris Eagles not moving to Rangers as the pay cut he would have to take to move there was less than when his clause kicks in on his Burnley contract.

 

[Beefy]

Relegation clauses on contracts for one.

Firestorm isn't asking what he could have done historically to stop us getting into this position, he's asking what he could have done last season to deal with the problems of a handful of players on contracts which the Club couldn't afford to honour.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

So how could RM have dealt with this better ? lets avoid the sniping and slagging off of other posters and think, what actually could he have done differently , given the need to massively reduce the wage bill....

After removing John Main, he should have stuck with the belief that the club cannot have someone in charge who would put the fairytale of football ahead of the business sense.

After all he was the negotiator of the players contracts not Tilly. He should not have sacrificed stability over success.

As a fan i maybe in the minority here but give me stability over success any time.

 

[southend4ever]

Oh please. We all know football is a business and is not about the fans. The one way fans can vote is by turning their backs on the game because of there displeasure at decisions made or perhaps because of prices of tickets. But, will that ever happen? That is extremely unlikely unless the media begin a campaign. This will not happen.

We do have the right to our say and we make our say because we want to help our clubs but it is very very rare that they will listen to the fans particularly when it is the minority that only ever speaks out. We are a nation of followers not a nation of leaders another reason why you will never get 5,000 protesting. By all means do what you feel is best but don't expect it to work.

You can't keep using "smoke screen" as an answer because you are not happy with the overall picture. That is pathetic. It is almost as if you want change but are unwilling to accept it. I think you need to look at how we can change as a club with Ron Martin at the helm. It doesn't look likely he is going to jump ship unless he gets prior knowledge that the ship is going to become shipwrecked!

For all the moaning that goes on I bet there are not many people that have organised a chat with Ron Martin or one of his delegates or penned a letter or e-mail. Instead you let him make his decisions and then moan about it. Crickey! What a brave approach. If we all had the ability of hindsight then we would never be in these sorts of situations and life would be a breeze but we don't so how about suggest some positive ideas to the man in charge and find out what really is going on.

You don't see other clubs announce all there policies and announce why exactly they are in so much debt so don't expect it to happen here. Unfortunately Ron is not as powerful financially as those in the situation in the higher leagues and doesn't have the same resources. I don't like Ron but there are a lot of people that aren't behaving much better should you be doing what you say you are and trying to turn around the fortunes of the club.

The debate goes on and on and on and on....... and on!