What price genius?

[Ron Manager]

Two extremely talented young men that don't conform to the moral standards of newspaper editors are being pilloried in the press this week. This begs the question, are we no longer able to tolerate wayward geniuses in this country anymore?

Most bile is being reserved for Pete Doherty, who has been largely responsible for the two most exciting and best albums produced by any guitar band in years. Sure he's a smackhead, but he's not going out hurting anyone or touching up kids so why is he public enemy number one all of a sudden? Because he's going out with defenceless little princess Kate Moss? Do me a favour, she's a fecking model - as if she's never come across drugs in the past.

The other is Wayne Rooney, yes he's a hot-headed youngster who's up-bringing probably wasn't ideal. But he is a football genius, the most exciting talent this country has produced in certainly my lifetime. Every national team coach in the world would love to have him eligible for their team if they could - and we are moaning because he swears a bit.

Genius is floored, highly creative people have taken drugs for centuries and young highly talented men from the wrong side of the tracks misbehave. That's the way it is, it's just a shame that many in this country have turned into such narrow minded conservatives (with a small c) and cannot accept this.

So Mr Doherty and Mr Rooney I for one salute your talents and your contribution to this great country of ours, faults and all!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I mean, look at that Mozart lad... a feckin' nutter, but he was pretty handy at the ole composition game...

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 03 2005,11:10)]I mean, look at that Mozart lad... a feckin' nutter, but he was pretty handy at the ole composition game...

Exactly!

Left back wasn't he?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Feb. 03 2005,11:40)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 03 2005,11:10)]I mean, look at that Mozart lad... a feckin' nutter, but he was pretty handy at the ole composition game...

Exactly!

Left back wasn't he?

I was going to say precisely the same thing...

 

[The Artful Shrimper]

Very thin line between madness and genius, so any genii alive today are bound to be barking nutters and ripe for some tabloid exposure.
been listening to a Libertines and Babyshambles compilation today and I have to say Libertines win hands down, easily.

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (The Artful Shrimper @ Feb. 03 2005,11:49)]Very thin line between madness and genius, so any genii alive today are bound to be barking nutters and ripe for some tabloid exposure.
been listening to a Libertines and Babyshambles compilation today and I have to say Libertines win hands down, easily.

The Babyshambles stuff is a bit hit and miss. The two Libertines albums however are, and I have said it before and will say it again, both fantastic and come highly recommended.

Ironically, considering his daliances with Ms Moss, 'What Katie did' is one of the stand out tracks on the latest album.

 

[* ORM *]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Feb. 03 2005,09:33)]The other is Wayne Rooney, yes he's a hot-headed youngster who's up-bringing probably wasn't ideal. But he is a football genius, the most exciting talent this country has produced in certainly my lifetime. Every national team coach in the world would love to have him eligible for their team if they could - and we are moaning because he swears a bit.

Our press spend their lifetimes destroying people with any talent, not just footballers. I do think the best move Rooney ever made was going to Man Ure. I'm not a big fan of Ferguson but I admire the way he looks after his troops.

Whether he is the most exciting talent in recent times is up for debate but Rooney seems to be the new Beckham (remember him ?). In the fullness of time they'll find another target.

HOWEVER: -

The fault certainly does NOT lay with the media. Their job is to sell papers and the likes of you and me buy those papers and watch reality TV (well the likes of you maybe, certainly not me),  and sit on our arses tolerating the changes in morals and society that are happening before our very eyes.

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ Feb. 03 2005,14:38)]HOWEVER: -

The fault certainly does NOT lay with the media. Their job is to sell papers and the likes of you and me buy those papers and watch reality TV (well the likes of you maybe, certainly not me),  and sit on our arses tolerating the changes in morals and society that are happening before our very eyes.

Agreed totally, I certainly will not watch any kind of reality TV (I have a brain) and try to avoid tabloid newspapers (altough I lapsed today I have to admit, reading one this morning is what prompted my initial post).

My point wasn't really to blame the press, they of course only reflect the views of it's readership which is why I questioned the narrow mindedness of the country in general.

I really cannot believe that we as a nation are surprised or even care that
a) A musician takes drugs

or

b) A young working class lad who has been catapulted into the limelight and been given sh*tloads of money misbehaves.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Feb. 03 2005,14:46)]Agreed totally, I certainly will not watch any kind of reality TV (I have a brain)

Yep... agreed again... we're on for world-record levels of dull mutual-approbation at the City Shrimpers...

 

Incidentally, Doherty's still in Islington nick.  The "victim" isn't pressing charges, the police think it's all a publicity stunt, and my missus is outside, ready to write some more invective for the red-tops...

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 03 2005,14:58)]Yep... agreed again... we're on for world-record levels of dull mutual-approbation at the City Shrimpers...

 

Yeah, I reckon we'll agree with each other a lot as well

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 03 2005,14:58)]Incidentally, Doherty's still in Islington nick.  The "victim" isn't pressing charges, the police think it's all a publicity stunt, and my missus is outside, ready to write some more invective for the red-tops...

Is she coming along to the City Shrimpers as well? Just tell her that an avid Libertines/Pete Doherty fan would just love to discuss how the tabloid press have hounded him!

 

[Napster]

Hmmm. The media reflects its readership- despite the fact that the sun only gets 3m readers (or 5% of the national population) and reality tv gets nowhere near as much audience as it is supposed.

It's easy to attack the media and the people who allow the media to be their mouthpiece. But then it's been that way for centuries. It's the one thing that differentiates market-led democracies from socialist autocracies. Buy into the idea, consume the product, throw it away the same day. Media is by its very nature disposable. As long as people have a grasp of what's important to them (poverty for one person is a big an issue as whether U2 have sold out to another), and not what everyone wants them to think, we'll be OK. That's why I love being British.

 

[rabbloke]

I must be the aforesaid conservative with a small 'c'. I applaud talent, though I have to fall short of accepting that Doherty or Rooney are in the genius bracket. They are however highly paid, unlike many of the true genii that only received recognition long after their bones were laid to rest, with that high pay should be a modicum of responsibility. They are role models and should see that for the entertainment they bring they also impose an unwanted influence on our youth. Drugs have been mentioned as a tool of the genius. I prefer to acknowledge those that perform without enhancements. Should Ben Johnson be reinstated as an Olympic gold medal winner because he had the genius to abuse drugs. I think not. Johnny Hollins was a great footballer and professional that noone had the opportunity to sleight. Look at Gary Lineker, great talent and squeaky clean. He has done more for football than Rooney perhaps ever will. Trevor Brooking can also be thought of in this way. On a more contemporary note look at Alan Shearer, grumpy so and so, but a model pro. Both Lulu and Sir Cliff may give us a clue about longevity. Keep your nose clean and you can do your stuff for what seems like an eternity. Rooney can look to the likes of Gascoigne and Best and ponder how long he might be at the top. Doherty can look to Jim Morrison, Jimmi Hendrix and a host of other greats that may leave a legacy but are not here to enjoy it and to be truthful he has not a hope of being a cult such as they.
I am hard line. I would not select a player for England that shames the shirt. I would never have rewarded a wife beater ( draw your own conclusions.PG.) with an England call up. They may be the best at the game but they are not worthy.
Mind you I would never select a player that plays abroad. If he cant be here, in all weathers entertaining the fans why on earth should he represent them. I digress.
Not all genius is wanted. The invention of the A bomb, the design of the multi storey car park and flared trousers are all things this world could do without. So are flawed genii. Lets make it more appealing to be responsible by rewarding the good guy and ignoring the fools.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Feb. 03 2005,15:09)]Hmmm. The media reflects its readership- despite the fact that the Sun only gets 3m readers (or 5% of the national population) and reality tv gets nowhere near as much audience as it is supposed.

3 million purchasers, Naps...

Don't they usually bank on something like 3 readers per copy; so you're getting up towards 10 million, or 20% of the population.

Summink like that, any rate...

Matt

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (rabbloke @ Feb. 03 2005,15:14)]On a more contemporary note look at Alan Shearer, grumpy so and so, but a model pro.  Both Lulu and Sir Cliff may give us a clue about longevity.

That's probably the key difference between us. Give me a Best over a Shearer and a Jimi Hendrix over a Cliff any day!

The fact that these people exist to me should be celebrated, how dull would life be if all the footballers were as squeaky clean as Micheal Owen and all the pop stars as achingly dull as Ronan Keating? There is of course a place for such people and they will always have their fans, but there should also be a place in all walks of life for the occasional maverick.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Feb. 03 2005,15:06)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 03 2005,14:58)]Incidentally, Doherty's still in Islington nick.  The "victim" isn't pressing charges, the police think it's all a publicity stunt, and my missus is outside, ready to write some more invective for the red-tops...

Is she coming along to the City Shrimpers as well? Just tell her that an avid Libertines/Pete Doherty fan would just love to discuss how the tabloid press have hounded him!

Hmm...  I can picture me asking her:

<span style='color:blue'>"So, I've got this City Shrimpers drinks tonight - do you fancy coming along?"</span>

<span style='color:red'>"Huh? You're not seriously asking me whether I want to come and stand in a pub with a load of blokes I don't know and talk aboot fitba'?"</span>

<span style='color:blue'>"Well, of course not... but there is this bloke who wants to have a moan at you for hounding his favourite rock star, Pete Doherty..."</span>

<span style='color:red'>"Ehm, mebbe I'll be doon' ma hair tonight, hmm...?"</span>

 

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (rabbloke @ Feb. 03 2005,15:14)]Doherty can look to Jim Morrison, Jimmi Hendrix and a host of other greats that may leave a legacy but are not here to enjoy it and to be truthful he has not a hope of being a cult such as they.

To many teenagers in this country he will mean as much to them as Hendrix and Morrison did to previous generations, or as much as Kurt Cobain still does to people like me.

Believe me, within a certain section of youth society he and his music are extremely popular. Very few of them will want him to go the same way as Hendrix etc and die young, I remember the anger I felt when Kurt Cobain did what he did to himself and his family. Young people aren&#39;t as stupid as they are made out to be and will not be influenced into taking smack because &#39;Pete Doherty does&#39; - if any of his fans end up on the drug that would have happened without him.

As someone who&#39;s life is enriched by the thrill of listening to both Libertines albums on a regular basis I wish that he could be left alone to deal with his demons, maybe he will then stand a chance of survival.

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 03 2005,15:27)]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Feb. 03 2005,15:06)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 03 2005,14:58)]Incidentally, Doherty's still in Islington nick.  The "victim" isn't pressing charges, the police think it's all a publicity stunt, and my missus is outside, ready to write some more invective for the red-tops...

Is she coming along to the City Shrimpers as well? Just tell her that an avid Libertines/Pete Doherty fan would just love to discuss how the tabloid press have hounded him!

Hmm...  I can picture me asking her:

<span style='color:blue'>"So, I've got this City Shrimpers drinks tonight - do you fancy coming along?"</span>

<span style='color:red'>"Huh? You're not seriously asking me whether I want to come and stand in a pub with a load of blokes I don't know and talk aboot fitba'?"</span>

<span style='color:blue'>"Well, of course not... but there is this bloke who wants to have a moan at you for hounding his favourite rock star, Pete Doherty..."</span>

<span style='color:red'>"Ehm, mebbe I'll be doon' ma hair tonight, hmm...?"</span>

 

Women eh?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Feb. 03 2005,15:37)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 03 2005,15:27)]Hmm...  I can picture me asking her:

<span style='color:blue'>"So, I've got this City Shrimpers drinks tonight - do you fancy coming along?"</span>

<span style='color:red'>"Huh? You're not seriously asking me whether I want to come and stand in a pub with a load of blokes I don't know and talk aboot fitba'?"</span>

<span style='color:blue'>"Well, of course not... but there is this bloke who wants to have a moan at you for hounding his favourite rock star, Pete Doherty..."</span>

<span style='color:red'>"Ehm, mebbe I'll be doon' ma hair tonight, hmm...?"</span>

Women eh?

Can't live with 'em... can't live with 'em...

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 03 2005,15:21)]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Feb. 03 2005,15:09)]Hmmm. The media reflects its readership- despite the fact that the Sun only gets 3m readers (or 5% of the national population) and reality tv gets nowhere near as much audience as it is supposed.

3 million purchasers, Naps...

Don&#39;t they usually bank on something like 3 readers per copy; so you&#39;re getting up towards 10 million, or 20% of the population.

Summink like that, any rate...

Matt

Classic publishers statement- dont believe it&#33;&#33;&#33;