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MK Shrimper

Striker
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,576
I love people who use 'straw man' argument to avoid the fact that the CIA were using drug dealing to fund illegal wars....Google Colonel Oliver North

I'm a child of the 80s, I know North.

I'm not saying that Governments are whiter than white - of course not, there's plenty of **** that goes on behind the scenes that we're not party to but what I have repeatedly stated is that not every terror incident is the work of some sinister Government agency - there are people out there who will kill for no reason at all and that's where Paddock sits along with psychopaths like Brady or Manson.
 

rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
15,393
Google a guy called Eugene Hasenfus or a woman called Eileen Welsome. Now when you wonder why you have never heard of her......The penny might start to drop.
 

GBJ

Staff member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
12,826
Location
Sunny Grays
That's what I thought at first and laughed at some of the hero stories but the more I looked I couldn't find one credible account from a hospital bed.

I distinctly remember at least one doctor (IIRC one of the lead surgeons at the hospital) being interviewed around a day or two after the incident. He told his story, and explained the sheer pandemonium they faced on that night. Now, if he's a fraud, or a crisis actor, then I'd have thought that someone, or a group of people attached to that specifc hospital, would have said something by now, to out him.

And again, If this was a Governent op, false flag etc, then why would the powers that be, even bother to stage a fake interview? The damage is done, and a brief interview with a crisis-actor, wouldn't add any weight to that.

So if you used a bi-pod on a narrow window ledge (he didn't even clear the glass properly) could you hit the same man in the chest from 400yds 3 times with a the gun in automatic mode or come back and target the same person 30 seconds later like some 'victims' with more than one wound are claiming.

The short answer is no. Although to balance it, I could try and do it 100 times, and miss every time. But the one time I'm not trying to do that, I'd probably ping it. It's not impossible, and as such you have to take that into consideration. You can argue it's improbable, but it's certainly possible
 

rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
15,393
I distinctly remember at least one doctor (IIRC one of the lead surgeons at the hospital) being interviewed around a day or two after the incident. He told his story, and explained the sheer pandemonium they faced on that night. Now, if he's a fraud, or a crisis actor, then I'd have thought that someone, or a group of people attached to that specifc hospital, would have said something by now, to out him.

And again, If this was a Governent op, false flag etc, then why would the powers that be, even bother to stage a fake interview? The damage is done, and a brief interview with a crisis-actor, wouldn't add any weight to that.



The short answer is no. Although to balance it, I could try and do it 100 times, and miss every time. But the one time I'm not trying to do that, I'd probably ping it. It's not impossible, and as such you have to take that into consideration. You can argue it's improbable, but it's certainly possible

It may not be any of those but they could be hiding the truth form us. Lets say some random group or even terrorists had threatened/black mailed Vegas. Some of the worlds most powerful people with huge investments on the strip wouldn't want that to be public knowledge......Just an example.

The problem with the 1 in 100 chance is it happened to several people and my friends say it is impossible to target individuals on auto at that distance and to use bi-pod on a broken window frame would make the gun even less controllable.

By the way, the US passed a law in 2012 which basically says they have the right to misinform the public over certain events.
 

Pubey

Guest
Firstly I'm not going to start googling around while at work, if you want to 'prove' a conspiracy theory then provide some evidence. I don't know how many headshot fatalities there apparently were - so please provide some evidence, and then provide some evidence that those numbers aren't plausible. He fired something like 1,100 rounds into a crowd - it seems plausible to me that some would be headshots.

Also, I'm not sure where your figure of just 8 seriously wounded has come from. Please provide some evidence. You say that all but 8 were 'released' within 48 hours. This article suggests that over 80 were still in hospital after 5 days:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/89-still-hospitalized-after-las-vegas-strip-shooting/

As the article shows, it's difficult to get total numbers because of the fragmented US health system, and so journalists basically have to phone up and ask each provider/hospital. Also there is a fragmented relationship between emergency care and transfer into long-term/inpatient care and that will involve releasing/discharging patients, and also the general issue about how the local emergency centres will have been overwhelmed due to the mass shooting and many patients will have been transferred around.

just bumping these unanswered Q's
 

GBJ

Staff member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
12,826
Location
Sunny Grays
It may not be any of those but they could be hiding the truth form us. Lets say some random group or even terrorists had threatened/black mailed Vegas. Some of the worlds most powerful people with huge investments on the strip wouldn't want that to be public knowledge......Just an example

It's possible, but highly unlikely. The fruitcake, with a grudge against the place seems more likely though. Especially considering the ease he would have been able to carry out the plan.

The problem with the 1 in 100 chance is it happened to several people and my friends say it is impossible to target individuals on auto at that distance and to use bi-pod on a broken window frame would make the gun even less controllable.

By the way, the US passed a law in 2012 which basically says they have the right to misinform the public over certain events.

I'd agree it's very difficult to target an individual, although it would solely depend on the strength & specification of the optical sight. With a strong enough scope, and the aid of bump stocks & pods, you could manage it. The first few shots that leave the barrel would be there or thereabouts. It's only after that, when the fully-auto feature really kicks in & affects the handling. *I've used the M4 on full auto, with an ACOG scope & a laser dot sight, and found it to be worse than using the factory iron sights, but still fairly accurate

I get that you're picking up on this accuracy thing, and questioning whether you could actually hit the same target with multiple shots, but you gotta remember, that from the 1100 shots he rang off, he only had a kill ratio of 18%. So his accuracy clearly wasn't that good. (That figure would change if we knew how many people were shot in total) That's even worse considering the surface of his target area & the amount of victims he could aim for.

I agree with you, he wouldn't have set the gun up on the window ledge, as there's not enough room, and the pods would have been unstable. He'd have almost certainly set them up on a nearby table, or something similar, a few feet from the window.

Edit*
 

Pubey

Guest
I've already said I cant post links. Perhaps you could post the guy who claims he was shot in the head and we can all decide.

I don't see how that answers any of my questions, which were in direct response to your claims.
 

rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
15,393
It's possible, but highly unlikely. The fruitcake, with a grudge against the place seems more likely though. Especially considering the ease he would have been able to carry out the plan.



I'd agree it's very difficult to target an individual, although it would solely depend on the strength & specification of the optical sight. With a strong enough scope, and the aid of bump stocks & pods, you could manage it. The first few shots that leave the barrel would be there or thereabouts. It's only after that, when the fully-auto feature really kicks in & affects the handling. *I've used the M4 on full auto, with an ACOG scope & a laser dot sight, and found it to be worse than using the factory iron sights, but still fairly accurate

I get that you're picking up on this accuracy thing, and questioning whether you could actually hit the same target with multiple shots, but you gotta remember, that from the 1100 shots he rang off, he only had a kill ratio of 18%. So his accuracy clearly wasn't that good. (That figure would change if we knew how many people were shot in total) That's even worse considering the surface of his target area & the amount of victims he could aim for.

I agree with you, he wouldn't have set the gun up on the window ledge, as there's not enough room, and the pods would have been unstable. He'd have almost certainly set them up on a nearby table, or something similar, a few feet from the window.

Edit*

Not sure how you can set up cameras in the hall way block staircases and shoot a security guard a full 6 minutes before firing on the crowd without someone having an idea where you are.

If he was using a table and Bi-pod how would he get the downward angle?

Tried to send you a PM as I have spoke to someone you might be interested in.....not sure if it worked ?
 

GBJ

Staff member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
12,826
Location
Sunny Grays
Not sure how you can set up cameras in the hall way block staircases and shoot a security guard a full 6 minutes before firing on the crowd without someone having an idea where you are.

If he was using a table and Bi-pod how would he get the downward angle?

Tried to send you a PM as I have spoke to someone you might be interested in.....not sure if it worked ?

The photos did show a device set up on a trolley, which was situated outside the doors, facing down the hallway, which had wires trailing from it, back into the room. Granted it's hard to establish for definite that it's a camera, just from that one photo, although I'm not sure what else it would be. I agree that blocking the stairs needs more clarification, as they haven't been clear on this part. I'll reserve judgement until they offer a final report. As for Campos being clipped 6 minutes before hand, I think Sherrif Lombardo cleared this up & admitted that the police had made an error when reporting this. I can't remember the refreshed timeline off the top of my head, but I think it brought the shooting of Campos back in line with the timing of the concert shooting.

He was situated 400 yards away, and around 300 feet above the target. Having tested many different Vegas hotels, especially that South End of the strip, I assure you, he would have had a clear line of fire, just by sitting at the table. He wouldn't have needed to get an extreme downward angle. Simply manouvering the gun on the pod would have been sufficient. Last time I was in Vegas, (2015) I was in New York New York. From laying on my bed, I could see out of the window and down to where they were constructing the T-mobile Arena. It would have been roughly the same height & distance as Paddock had for the concert. I assure you, I wouldn't have needed to do too much manouvering to be able to hit that vicinity with an AR which was equipped with stocks, sights & a pod. I'll see if I've got any photos on my phone of that view still, to give u a better idea of how easy it would be, to situate a table a few feet away from the window & set up there.

I had a few messages from you & MK, but thought they were all quote notifications, so maybe I've deleted it by mistake? :facepalm:
 

GBJ

Staff member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
12,826
Location
Sunny Grays
Not or sure if this'll work, but here goes. Edit, it did work. This is the view I had from my window. Every Vegas hotel has a table & a few chairs next to the windows in the rooms. Wouldn't have been hard to set up here, maybe a few feet from the smashed window

4ly5t.jpg
 

rigsby

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
15,393
The photos did show a device set up on a trolley, which was situated outside the doors, facing down the hallway, which had wires trailing from it, back into the room. Granted it's hard to establish for definite that it's a camera, just from that one photo, although I'm not sure what else it would be. I agree that blocking the stairs needs more clarification, as they haven't been clear on this part. I'll reserve judgement until they offer a final report. As for Campos being clipped 6 minutes before hand, I think Sherrif Lombardo cleared this up & admitted that the police had made an error when reporting this. I can't remember the refreshed timeline off the top of my head, but I think it brought the shooting of Campos back in line with the timing of the concert shooting.

He was situated 400 yards away, and around 300 feet above the target. Having tested many different Vegas hotels, especially that South End of the strip, I assure you, he would have had a clear line of fire, just by sitting at the table. He wouldn't have needed to get an extreme downward angle. Simply manouvering the gun on the pod would have been sufficient. Last time I was in Vegas, (2015) I was in New York New York. From laying on my bed, I could see out of the window and down to where they were constructing the T-mobile Arena. It would have been roughly the same height & distance as Paddock had for the concert. I assure you, I wouldn't have needed to do too much manouvering to be able to hit that vicinity with an AR which was equipped with stocks, sights & a pod. I'll see if I've got any photos on my phone of that view still, to give u a better idea of how easy it would be, to situate a table a few feet away from the window & set up there.

I had a few messages from you & MK, but thought they were all quote notifications, so maybe I've deleted it by mistake? :facepalm:


I'm not disputing how easy it would be to just hit the crowd randomly. In fact after the first phone vids were released I was thinking how comes more people aren't dead if you fired into that packed crowd lying on the floor covering a whole football pitch

One of the figures was 161 people with gunshot wounds. assuming that some bullets would hit more than one person that means he missed with over a 1000 shots ?

Where are all the shell casings in the room?

Again the story changes form Pubey's link of 80 people in hospital after 5 days on another it was 45 after a week and then they give out figures of 534 injured and treated in hospital with 526 released in 48 hrs I make that 8 people left.

If it was you I would imagine you would have had a higher kill and injure rate :winking:

I'll try that PM again
 

SUFC_Ross

Coach
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
1,131
Location
Shoeburyness
[/QUOTE]
So over the space of about 10 years, I've used a wide variety of guns. From Glocks, to Magnums, to Sniper Rifles, to 12-gauge's. And I've always been fairly decent with them. The AR's I've used on multiple occasions are M16, M4, AK47, SCAR, and MP5, UZI sub-machines. I've tried all on full-auto, and granted its hard, but I've always hit the targets, and been ok with them. With one standard clip, holding the gun free-aim, I obviously couldn't hit the same small target repeatedly when on full-auto, but I'd certainly tag it 30%-40%- minimum. If I'd have used a bi/tri-pod, like Paddock did, I reckon I could get Upto 60%-70%[/QUOTE]

That's better than my Call of duty ratio!
 
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