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DTS

The Business
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
16,175
Location
In a world of my own.
I am as depressed as everyone this morning and it tears me apart to see horrible sides like Hull coming to the Hall and winning but I do think its time for a reality check.

We have come into the 2nd highest division in the country and the 5th best in terms of finance in Europe. Is it any wonder that are finding it hard.

Sides like Brum,Sunderland, West Brom and look at the resources they have compared to us and the fact they can all pretty much change their whole team if they lose and you compare with the fact we are down to the bare bones.

Sides at the bottom with us have players we could only dream of attracting (Leeds with Healy,Derry,Cresswell & Hull with Mills,Bridges etc).

Its important to remember where we have come from which was basically 91st in the league. Tilly has worked wonders to get us here as lets face it off the field we are not ready to compete at this level yet.

The key that helps me at the moment is all we need to do is come 4th from bottom and this season has been a massive success.

I feel its time to remember where we were and look where we are and feel proud - Even if things arent great at the moment.

DtS
sleepy.gif
 
99% of people on here knew we would sturggle but then again I think the same 99% hoped we would be above our old nemesis Parky as well as Col U.

Maybe this combined with the fact the team are so bereft of quality at this level as well as the confidence upon which we've sailed up 2 divisions is why everybody seems so down.

As I've said elsewhere on here this morning as well as over the past couple of weeks this MUST not become an anti-Tilson argument!
 
If thats the case why is it that Luton and Col u , both with lesser crowds are doing so well. The team is never strong enough for this league. Bring some players in now tilly or it will be too late come january
 
Well I always thought this season would be extremely tough but we would hopefully get enough home points to keep us up.
To do this we would need to beat Ipswich and Hull amongst others.

So In answer to your title of what were we expecting... to be able to nick points against lowly teams at home.

Sadly this isnt proving to be the case and with the "bare bones" squad we have, relegation at this point looks inevitable.
 
The fact we can't defend is the one over-riding problem but you've gotta wonder if the team spirit is as good as it was the last couple of seasons. We know Ricketts disrupted morale, I just wonder if even now he's gone the squad is as tight-knit as it was. Efe's spat with Hooper can't have helped at all and from what I heard from a Grays-supporting bloke I know Hooper isn't exactly a good player to have in the dressing room......
 
I didnt think we would be here, I thought our momentum from last season would see us do ok first half of season, then struggle later on.

If Col U can sit in 10th place we should be able to.

The only difference between us is they managed to get some results and self belief, which following their 4 defeats in a row at the start is some going.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dave the Shrimper @ Nov. 01 2006,11:11)]We have come into the 2nd highest division in the country and the 5th best in terms of finance in Europe. Is it any wonder that are finding it hard.
And we're the 24th best team out of 24 ...

laugh.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Nov. 01 2006,11:13)]I didnt think we would be here, I thought our momentum from last season would see us do ok first half of season, then struggle later on.

If Col U can sit in 10th place we should be able to.

The only difference between us is they managed to get some results and self belief, which following their 4 defeats in a row at the start is some going.
As somebody pointed out to me the other day when I raised this, you need to remember Col U were a mid table L1 side for our entire career in the basement division.

Stepping up for the majority of their squad is maybe not the gap it is going up 2 levels so quickly!
 
It seems strange to me that Ricketts agreed to come to Roots Hall from Leeds if he did not think it was a good move in football terms for him. He needed to kick start his career.

What I ask myself is this,why did he not try to get fit and lose weight? There must be a reason behind it. He has played in the Prem. so knows what is required of a top pro. footballer.

It is that the much talked about Tilly team spirit is now just hype? Did he not like what he found at the club?

Why does a Pro. Footballer not try and therefore put himself out of work. There must be reasons for it, if not he must be mad.
 
It would be interesting to know just how much we've missed the Goat and I don't mean just in a footballing sense (although Freddy clearly HAS missed the Goat ON the pitch).
 
The annoying thing is that we've been undone by poor defending and lack of creativity in getting into the final third other than via a cross.

But we've not been THAT much worse than a lot of these teams. Against Coventry, the only difference between the sides was the skill of McKenzie. Against Ipswich, it was Clarke.

IF we can get a player of their ilk on loan, we might be alright yet. I too feel terrible this morning about it, but tomorrow is another day. Let's see how the team reacts and stick behind them...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Blue Shrimp @ Nov. 01 2006,11:45)]It seems strange to me that Ricketts agreed to come to Roots Hall from Leeds if he did not think it was a good move in football terms for him.
It may well be that due to the reputations he had from other clubs (including his Stoke/Burnley/Cardiff loan spells apparently) that we were the only club to come in for him and THAT'S why he signed.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Nov. 01 2006,11:57)]It would be interesting to know just how much we've missed the Goat and I don't mean just in a footballing sense (although Freddy clearly HAS missed the Goat ON the pitch).
The Goat was a huge loss.

If we could tempt him out of retirement again it would be a massive coup, even to play 15 minutes every other week. I'm sure all the players look up to him (and not just in the sense that we have a team of midgets), and his reassuring presence around the team would be invaluable.

As Tilly said last season, team spirit can get you a long way. We had no team spirit last night, there was no confidence or belief. With confidence and belief even at 3-2 down with 10 minutes we would have walked away with a minimum of a point because they were there for the taking.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Nov. 01 2006,11:13)]If Col U can sit in 10th place we should be able to.
Why?

I totally agree with glasgowsufc's view that we should not let our current predicament allow a foolish anti-Tilson sentiment to grow.  That would be so utterly destructive to our club.  It has become painfully obvious that this side has become promoted beyond its ability.  Perhaps that sounds crazy... but it has done - and that's not really Tilson's fault.  Fundamentally, he has done his job too well and he has been too lucky... and people are now queuing up to slaughter him for it.  It's pathetic.

Until 2004 we spent 8 years as a bottom division club in set up, finances, crowds and playing staff... and people are now wondering why we're struggling so much in the Championship.  Wake up and smell the coffee, folks.

Ultimately, for reasons of momentum and fantastic team spirit, we went on an amazing run of results in September and October last year.  8 wins on the bounce is an all-time club record.  So, there was the momentum.

Then, to our good fortune (and our surprise) when we went on a wretched run of 2 months without a league win... no one capitalised.  That helped the team spirit no end.

And then - finally, crucially - there was Freddy.  We may not be a one-man team... but the only reason we found ourselves winning the title was because of Freddy.  If he'd been injured, would we have won the title?  Would we even have made the top six?

I don't think so.

Of course Col Ewe are better equipped than we are to take on this league.  They spent 8 years in League One whilst we languished in League Two.  It would be scandalous on their part if they weren't  better equipped.  Crucially, as we're in the process of discovering painfully, the secret to this division is a great defence.  They've got one, and we don't.  They had a better defence than we did last season as well, incidentally.

Leave out the two derby matches - in which the Ewes appeared totally unable to function - and their defence conceded a hugely impressive 34 goals in 44 games.  Ours, in comparison, conceded 42 goals in 44.  At this level - where the ability to shut down the opposition appears to be key - that's why they're prospering, and we're struggling.

In addition, their back 5 is practically the same this season as it was last season - whilst ours has chopped and changed more frequently than Rafa Benitez's starting XI.  And it's our dysfunctional defence - conceding at the rate of almost 2 a game (28 goals in 15 outings) - that will ultimately send us down.

That doesn't make Tilson a bad manager.  It means that, ultimately, we've become the victims of our own success - and in particular, of Freddy's awesome talent.

What's the solution?  I'm not sure.  I think that our best back five - Flahavan, Hunt, Sodje, one of Barrett or Clarke, and Hammell - need to be given the chance to play consistently with each other from now on.

We also need a midfield in front of them that doesn't cede possession every ten seconds - and the lack of a shutter-downer who can do the simple stuff and then give the ball to Maher or Gower to do the interesting stuff (i.e. a Pettefer or Bentley) has been a huge and gaping hole in our midfield.  Guttridge lacks either the desire or the energy to fulfil that role, that's for sure.

Perhaps the bravado of back to back promotions meant that Tilly & Brush thought they could take the division by storm and by playing our way out, rather than by grinding out 1-0s.  However, as we've discovered, it's no use scoring regularly at home when you're conceding practically two a game.

* * *

So, where does all that rambling take me?

1. Tilson is not a bad manager.
2. We got promoted beyond our capability thanks to Freddy.
3. You cannot completely change the squad mid-season, that doesn't work.
4. We desperately lack a midfield enforcer, and have done all season.
5. We have to start getting ugly, put 8 behind the ball, and grind out 1-0s.
6. Crucially... don't give up, and get behind 'em.

Matt



 
We also desperately need some defenders who know how to defend, a striker who knows where the goal is.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Nov. 01 2006,12:29)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Nov. 01 2006,11:13)]If Col U can sit in 10th place we should be able to.
Why?

I totally agree with glasgowsufc's view that we should not let our current predicament allow a foolish anti-Tilson sentiment to grow.  That would be so utterly destructive to our club.

Ultimately, it has become painfully obvious that this side has become promoted beyond its ability.  Perhaps that sounds crazy... but it has done - and that's not really Tilson's fault.  Fundamentally, he has done his job too well and he has been too lucky... and people are now queuing up to slaughter him for it.  It's pathetic.

Until 2004 we spent 8 years as a bottom division club in set up, finances, crowds and playing staff... and people are now wondering why we're struggling so much in the Championship.  Wake up and smell the coffee, folks.

Ultimately, for reasons of momentum and fantastic team spirit, we went on an amazing run of results in September and October last year.  8 wins on the bounce is an all-time club record.  So, there was the momentum.

Then, to our good fortune (and our surprise) when we went on a wretched run of 2 months without a league win... no one capitalised.  That helped the team spirit no end.

And then - finally, crucially - there was Freddy.  We may not be a one-man team... but the only reason we found ourselves winning the title was because of Freddy.  If he'd been injured, would we have won the title?  Would we even have made the top six?

I don't think so.

Of course Col Ewe are better equipped than we are to take on this league.  They spent 8 years in League One whilst we languished in League Two.  It would be scandalous on their part if they weren't  better equipped.  Crucially, as we're in the process of discovering painfully, the secret to this division is a great defence.  They've got one, and we don't.  They had a better defence than we did last season as well, incidentally.

Leave out the two derby matches - in which the Ewes appeared totally unable to function - and their defence conceded a hugely impressive 34 goals in 44 games.  Ours, in comparison, conceded 42 goals in 44.  At this level - where the ability to shut down the opposition appears to be key - that's why they're prospering, and we're struggling.

In addition, their back 5 is practically the same this season as it was last season - whilst ours has chopped and changed more frequently than Rafa Benitez's starting XI.  And it's our dysfunctional defence - conceding at the rate of almost 2 a game (28 goals in 5 outings) - that will ultimately send us down.

That doesn't make Tilson a bad manager.  It means that, ultimately, we've become the victims of our own success - and in particular, of Freddy's awesome talent.

What's the solution?  I'm not sure.  I think that our best back five - Flahavan, Hunt, Sodje, one of Barrett or Clarke, and Hammell - need to be given the chance to play consistently with each other from now on.

We also need a midfield in front of them that doesn't cede possession every ten seconds - and the lack of a shutter-downer who can do the simple stuff and then give the ball to Maher or Gower to do the interesting stuff (i.e. a Pettefer or Bentley) has been a huge and gaping hole in our midfield.  Guttridge lacks either the desire or the energy to fulfil that role, that's for sure.

Perhaps the bravado of back to back promotions meant that Tilly & Brush thought they could take the division by storm and by playing our way out, rather than by grinding out 1-0s.  However, as we've discovered, it's no use scoring regularly at home when you're conceding practically two a game.

* * *

So, where does all that rambling take me?

1. Tilson is not a bad manager.
2. We got promoted beyond our capability thanks to Freddy.
3. You cannot completely change the squad mid-season, that doesn't work.
4. We desperately lack a midfield enforcer, and have done all season.
5. We have to start getting ugly, put 8 behind the ball, and grind out 1-0s.
6. Crucially... don't give up, and get behind 'em.

Matt
Fantasist.



























wink.gif
 
Spot on Matt, best post Ive seen for ages on here. We are a League 2 club who have had 2 great seasons built on the goals of one player. Maybe a few seasons in League one- building up the club, the new ground, allowing the young players we have to develop and getting in some better players in other positions thru the sale of Freddy- wouldnt be a bad thing. Then maybe in 10 years time we can be like Reading or Wigan.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Nov. 01 2006,12:29)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Nov. 01 2006,11:13)]If Col U can sit in 10th place we should be able to.
Why?

I totally agree with glasgowsufc's view that we should not let our current predicament allow a foolish anti-Tilson sentiment to grow.  That would be so utterly destructive to our club.

Ultimately, it has become painfully obvious that this side has become promoted beyond its ability.  Perhaps that sounds crazy... but it has done - and that's not really Tilson's fault.  Fundamentally, he has done his job too well and he has been too lucky... and people are now queuing up to slaughter him for it.  It's pathetic.

Until 2004 we spent 8 years as a bottom division club in set up, finances, crowds and playing staff... and people are now wondering why we're struggling so much in the Championship.  Wake up and smell the coffee, folks.

Ultimately, for reasons of momentum and fantastic team spirit, we went on an amazing run of results in September and October last year.  8 wins on the bounce is an all-time club record.  So, there was the momentum.

Then, to our good fortune (and our surprise) when we went on a wretched run of 2 months without a league win... no one capitalised.  That helped the team spirit no end.

And then - finally, crucially - there was Freddy.  We may not be a one-man team... but the only reason we found ourselves winning the title was because of Freddy.  If he'd been injured, would we have won the title?  Would we even have made the top six?

I don't think so.

Of course Col Ewe are better equipped than we are to take on this league.  They spent 8 years in League One whilst we languished in League Two.  It would be scandalous on their part if they weren't  better equipped.  Crucially, as we're in the process of discovering painfully, the secret to this division is a great defence.  They've got one, and we don't.  They had a better defence than we did last season as well, incidentally.

Leave out the two derby matches - in which the Ewes appeared totally unable to function - and their defence conceded a hugely impressive 34 goals in 44 games.  Ours, in comparison, conceded 42 goals in 44.  At this level - where the ability to shut down the opposition appears to be key - that's why they're prospering, and we're struggling.

In addition, their back 5 is practically the same this season as it was last season - whilst ours has chopped and changed more frequently than Rafa Benitez's starting XI.  And it's our dysfunctional defence - conceding at the rate of almost 2 a game (28 goals in 5 outings) - that will ultimately send us down.

That doesn't make Tilson a bad manager.  It means that, ultimately, we've become the victims of our own success - and in particular, of Freddy's awesome talent.

What's the solution?  I'm not sure.  I think that our best back five - Flahavan, Hunt, Sodje, one of Barrett or Clarke, and Hammell - need to be given the chance to play consistently with each other from now on.

We also need a midfield in front of them that doesn't cede possession every ten seconds - and the lack of a shutter-downer who can do the simple stuff and then give the ball to Maher or Gower to do the interesting stuff (i.e. a Pettefer or Bentley) has been a huge and gaping hole in our midfield.  Guttridge lacks either the desire or the energy to fulfil that role, that's for sure.

Perhaps the bravado of back to back promotions meant that Tilly & Brush thought they could take the division by storm and by playing our way out, rather than by grinding out 1-0s.  However, as we've discovered, it's no use scoring regularly at home when you're conceding practically two a game.

* * *

So, where does all that rambling take me?

1. Tilson is not a bad manager.
2. We got promoted beyond our capability thanks to Freddy.
3. You cannot completely change the squad mid-season, that doesn't work.
4. We desperately lack a midfield enforcer, and have done all season.
5. We have to start getting ugly, put 8 behind the ball, and grind out 1-0s.
6. Crucially... don't give up, and get behind 'em.

Matt
Possibly the best post I have ever read on this forum. Agree with every word. Absolutely spot on. Well done!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Stodge @ Nov. 01 2006,12:44)]Ultimately, it has become painfully obvious that this side has become promoted beyond its ability.  Perhaps that sounds crazy... but it has done - and that's not really Tilson's fault.  Fundamentally, he has done his job too well and he has been too lucky... and people are now queuing up to slaughter him for it.  It's pathetic.
nice post mts, but i disagree withthe above. I believe you get lucky in cup runs maybe the odd game but the point of a league is that luck is minimal. How can you be lucky, home and away for two seasons?

To get teams out of situation like will take a lot. eg Parkinson and his coach last night were on his feet bawling out his players the ref, our players, the asistant referees, drinks sellers, small children, basically throwing energy at the situation, it works for him he got a great result.

It is still early days with loads of points to play for. It is the Managers responsibility, that is why he is there. They accept the good times and will have to adapt to the bad. Tilson of course should stay, learn, and come up with a solution.

In Tilson I trust, he got us here.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Nov. 01 2006,12:29)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Nov. 01 2006,11:13)]If Col U can sit in 10th place we should be able to.
Why?

I totally agree with glasgowsufc's view that we should not let our current predicament allow a foolish anti-Tilson sentiment to grow.  That would be so utterly destructive to our club.  It has become painfully obvious that this side has become promoted beyond its ability.  Perhaps that sounds crazy... but it has done - and that's not really Tilson's fault.  Fundamentally, he has done his job too well and he has been too lucky... and people are now queuing up to slaughter him for it.  It's pathetic.

Until 2004 we spent 8 years as a bottom division club in set up, finances, crowds and playing staff... and people are now wondering why we're struggling so much in the Championship.  Wake up and smell the coffee, folks.

Ultimately, for reasons of momentum and fantastic team spirit, we went on an amazing run of results in September and October last year.  8 wins on the bounce is an all-time club record.  So, there was the momentum.

Then, to our good fortune (and our surprise) when we went on a wretched run of 2 months without a league win... no one capitalised.  That helped the team spirit no end.

And then - finally, crucially - there was Freddy.  We may not be a one-man team... but the only reason we found ourselves winning the title was because of Freddy.  If he'd been injured, would we have won the title?  Would we even have made the top six?

I don't think so.

Of course Col Ewe are better equipped than we are to take on this league.  They spent 8 years in League One whilst we languished in League Two.  It would be scandalous on their part if they weren't  better equipped.  Crucially, as we're in the process of discovering painfully, the secret to this division is a great defence.  They've got one, and we don't.  They had a better defence than we did last season as well, incidentally.

Leave out the two derby matches - in which the Ewes appeared totally unable to function - and their defence conceded a hugely impressive 34 goals in 44 games.  Ours, in comparison, conceded 42 goals in 44.  At this level - where the ability to shut down the opposition appears to be key - that's why they're prospering, and we're struggling.

In addition, their back 5 is practically the same this season as it was last season - whilst ours has chopped and changed more frequently than Rafa Benitez's starting XI.  And it's our dysfunctional defence - conceding at the rate of almost 2 a game (28 goals in 15 outings) - that will ultimately send us down.

That doesn't make Tilson a bad manager.  It means that, ultimately, we've become the victims of our own success - and in particular, of Freddy's awesome talent.

What's the solution?  I'm not sure.  I think that our best back five - Flahavan, Hunt, Sodje, one of Barrett or Clarke, and Hammell - need to be given the chance to play consistently with each other from now on.

We also need a midfield in front of them that doesn't cede possession every ten seconds - and the lack of a shutter-downer who can do the simple stuff and then give the ball to Maher or Gower to do the interesting stuff (i.e. a Pettefer or Bentley) has been a huge and gaping hole in our midfield.  Guttridge lacks either the desire or the energy to fulfil that role, that's for sure.

Perhaps the bravado of back to back promotions meant that Tilly & Brush thought they could take the division by storm and by playing our way out, rather than by grinding out 1-0s.  However, as we've discovered, it's no use scoring regularly at home when you're conceding practically two a game.

* * *

So, where does all that rambling take me?

1. Tilson is not a bad manager.
2. We got promoted beyond our capability thanks to Freddy.
3. You cannot completely change the squad mid-season, that doesn't work.
4. We desperately lack a midfield enforcer, and have done all season.
5. We have to start getting ugly, put 8 behind the ball, and grind out 1-0s.
6. Crucially... don't give up, and get behind 'em.

Matt
Spot on Matt and summarises what I've spent the best part of the morning trying to explain & "firefight" against certain dissenting anti-Tilly voices!
 
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