Which justice do you prefer?

[blue scorpion]

Two case scenarios for you to consider.

1.A man convicted of raping and murdering a 16 year old girl has been put to death in Texas despite the international court of justice urging the authorities there not to carry out the sentence.
The American state has said its courts are not bound by the rulings of the ICJ.

2.The extradition of Abu Hamza to the USA has been delayed on the involvement of the european court of human rights.
The home office confirms it will follow the courts request.

If you had a 16 year old daughter who was murdered by either a rapist or a terrorist which of the above scenarios would you want applied to the prosecution of the offender?

 

[osymandus]

Neither, justice can never be done nor seen to be done by emtional reponses.

Example 1 can still (and given the American justice system is based on how much money yopu have to be free) be open to appeal or the man could still be innocent, now if proven later you have murdered an innocnet man

Example 2 From an larger point of view , you can't make a martyer of a man wrapped in red tape . If his saved from "justice" by the system he hates he loses support.

Worlds within worlds

 

[steveo]

Neither, justice can never be done nor seen to be done by emtional reponses.

Putting to death amman convicted of Rape and murder is hardly an emotional response.
If thats their law then thats it. Shame we dont so the same in this country.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Putting to death amman convicted of Rape and murder is hardly an emotional response.
If thats their law then thats it. Shame we dont so the same in this country.

Barry George would probably disagree with you there.

 

[osymandus]

Putting to death amman convicted of Rape and murder is hardly an emotional response.
If thats their law then thats it. Shame we dont so the same in this country.

Well as Cyril pointed out Mr George is only one of many examples of where the judical systems has got it a little wrong.

And the emotive line was a generalised statment not specific to the examples

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

The Justice i prefer is one i'm playing at the moment, by Metallica

oops .. :offtopic: :hijack:

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

and backing up Osy's post whilst using Blueblood's tune

Halls of justice painted green
Money talking
Power wolves beset your door
Hear them stalking
Soon you'll please their appetite
They devour
Hammer of justice crushes you
Overpower

 

[steveo]

Well as Cyril pointed out Mr George is only one of many examples of where the judical systems has got it a little wrong.

And how about the victimes and families of these poeple:

Last Updated: 2:40AM GMT 26 Jan 2007

Nearly 30 convicted killers released from jail over the past 10 years have gone on to kill again, according to Home Office figures released yesterday.

Twenty-five of them were convicted in courts for the second homicide — including 21 murders. A further four suspects in second homicide cases who had previous convictions died or committed suicide before they could be brought to justice.

Obviously wont matter because we have to be sympathetic to killers and law breakers these days dont we, they may have been told off at school in a nasty tone of voice.

 

[Gremlin]

And how about the victimes and families of these poeple:



Obviously wont matter because we have to be sympathetic to killers and law breakers these days dont we, they may have been told off at school in a nasty tone of voice.

I don't think anyone suggests they deserve sympathy, only correct sentencing.

 

[steveo]

I don't think anyone suggests they deserve sympathy, only correct sentencing

And if they had been sentenced to death, they wouldnt have killed again.

 

[osymandus]

And how about the victimes and families of these poeple:

You find teh right people who commited the crime



Obviously wont matter because we have to be sympathetic to killers and law breakers these days dont we, they may have been told off at school in a nasty tone of voice.

Nope sympathy is also an emotive response is it not ? Prevention of crime is better then fighting would you not say ? Why do we even have killers in our society , how do you stop or prevent them in the first place ??

Regarding stating a point, repeating it in circular logic dosnt make it right.

 

[Gremlin]

And if they had been sentenced to death, they wouldnt have killed again.

Obviously true. Likewise in cases where someone is wrongly convicted the real killer can go on to kill again. Better to kill them just incase though, eh?

 

[osymandus]

Obviously true. Likewise in cases where someone is wrongly convicted the real killer can go on to kill again. Better to kill them just incase though, eh?

Potentially we can all kill , wait i have the answer ... wipe us all out its so simple why has no one thought about it !!

Wibble wibble
:headbang:

 

[steveo]

Better to kill them just incase though, eh?

Most poeple are convicted of murder for a reason. Its not a case of just grabbing someone off the street and framing them, so if they are convicted by the criminal justice system we operate, and if the sentence is death, then yes, they should die.

 

[blue scorpion]

I don't think anyone suggests they deserve sympathy, only correct sentencing.

Preferably by a British court using British law with no interference from a court in Strasbourg.

So called human rights issues appear to be more heavily weighted towards evil doers with each passing day.

 

[osymandus]

Most poeple are convicted of murder for a reason. Its not a case of just grabbing someone off the street and framing them, so if they are convicted by the criminal justice system we operate, and if the sentence is death, then yes, they should die.

Actually its a case of being bult up against them and being proven in a court of law. However as using Barry George again . The case was poor , preassurised as a result of being so high profile and ultimatly flawed .

This is a minority but will always happen hence why we cannot have the death penalty for a standard sentance (exception circumstances may however stand (a person willfull slaughtering people in full view of the media or several hundred witnesses))

Actually human and civil liberties are being eroduded day by day , by charltan journolists working in the intrestests of certain parties to bring across this impression. Security at the price of liberty is tyranny.

 

[Gremlin]

Most poeple are convicted of murder for a reason.

Absolutely correct again. Colin Stagg, Barry George and countless others can testify to this.

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

Most poeple are convicted of murder for a reason. Its not a case of just grabbing someone off the street and framing them, so if they are convicted by the criminal justice system we operate, and if the sentence is death, then yes, they should die.

Even if they're innocent?!

According to your methodology if you kill someone you should die, correct?

So if someone is theatening a person you love and the only way you can help them is to kill the attacker, you should die irrespective of what the situation was. This of course is just one example.

I'm glad you live in such a black or white world, myself i live in the real world, where there are shades, mistakes get made and things can be seen from different angles.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Preferably by a British court using British law with no interference from a court in Strasbourg.

So called human rights issues appear to be more heavily weighted towards evil doers with each passing day.

Agreed, if a person who is accused of a crime within a country and is prosecuted and convicted according to the laws of that land then that ought to be it. No interference from elsewhere.

Personally, I also feel that if there is 100% no shadow of a doubt in cases of murder then why not bring back the death sentence. In such an instance Barry George would not have been put to death because there was always an element of doubt.

 

[Desert Shrimper]

Agreed - some of those who work forces, are the same who burn crosses.