Whole squad on furlough - or not!

[Westcliff DGS]

The blunt truth is, that Ron entered into contracts with those players, and agreed to pay them X amount.

If he doesn’t, then he’s in breach of the contract.

You couldn’t walk into a bank and tell them you’re not making any money right now, so you’re gunna have to stop paying the mortgage for a while.

FWIW, I don’t think the players would refuse furlough, if Ron could just agree to pay them what they’re owed, even if it’s at a later date. They (along with the PFA) are worried that Ron won’t pay.

If Ron owed you a hundred grand, and he said I’ll pay you when I’ve got it, would you take his word for it?

There hasnt been any update (other than the echo re hashing a story) but I had heard Ron had done that the same as with the others.

As for the PFA they have lodged the same note about pretty much every league 1 and 2 club with the obvious big club exceptions. FWIW the PFA will look to protect there own (rightly so) but they have not helped any situation in this whole mess, the need to look at themselves and re organise to maybe be more forward thinking that her than defensive all the time. They have a place and are needed, they do a lot of good work in local communities, but need to modernise,

Also re the bank thing i think you can ask for a mortgage holiday right now, just gets added to the balance and paid back over the duration i think (not looked into it but i think thats the deal).

 

[kentblues]

All the observations made are generally true but as with the Echo article don’t mention those whose contract ends in a couple weeks. A fixed term contract may protect those with a year or more to run but a number of their team mates don’t enjoy that protection and they matter too.

 

[GBJ]

There hasnt been any update (other than the echo re hashing a story) but I had heard Ron had done that the same as with the others.

The PFA spoke to the players on Monday via a zoom chat. That’s the latest update I know about.

The message is still mixed, from what I can gather. All outstanding monies will be paid, when we can afford to.

Other chairmen have personally guaranteed to pay their players, come what may, which the PFA have accepted.

Obviously suggesting you’ll pay a debt as and when you can, is fairly ambiguous, so I can understand the concern.

As for the PFA they have lodged the same note about pretty much every league 1 and 2 club with the obvious big club exceptions.

And yet, we’re still the only club who hasn’t furloughed it’s players? (Play-off teams aside)

Also re the bank thing i think you can ask for a mortgage holiday right now, just gets added to the balance and paid back over the duration i think (not looked into it but i think thats the deal).

Sure, but I was using it as an example of contract law, not necessarily referring to players and their mortgages.

All the observations made are generally true but as with the Echo article don’t mention those whose contract ends in a couple weeks. A fixed term contract may protect those with a year or more to run but a number of their team mates don’t enjoy that protection and they matter too.

Yes good discussion point. Let’s start by looking at who’s contract is up in 2 weeks time. The first four we need to look at are;

- McLaughlin - would need to accept a massive wage cut to resign with us

- Sam Mantom - unlikely to play again for us

- Luke Hyam - unlikely to play for us again

- Theo Robinson - won’t come back here

From those four, I think it’s probable that we’ll say goodbye to all of them.

Then we are left with the remaining 5, all of which I’d like to keep;

- Tom Clifford
- Sam Barratt
- Lewis Gard
- Michael Klass
- Harry Phillips

I’d suggest that Clifford, Gard & Phillips have genuine resale value, so the club will want to hold onto them. None of them will be on extraordinary wages, and as long as it’s realistic for Lg2’s wage cap, then I can’t see why the club wouldn’t want to hold onto them.

However, it’s obvious that we’ll have to reinforce in the transfer window, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see a good few departures

 

[Westcliff DGS]

The PFA spoke to the players on Monday via a zoom chat. That’s the latest update I know about.

The message is still mixed, from what I can gather. All outstanding monies will be paid, when we can afford to.

Other chairmen have personally guaranteed to pay their players, come what may, which the PFA have accepted.

Obviously suggesting you’ll pay a debt as and when you can, is fairly ambiguous, so I can understand the concern.



And yet, we’re still the only club who hasn’t furloughed it’s players? (Play-off teams aside)



Sure, but I was using it as an example of contract law, not necessarily referring to players and their mortgages.

Not aware of the PFA zoom chat, but if thats what RM said then isnt that inline with the other 7?


Re not furloughing is that a credit to the club as we have paid 100% (assumption is we haven’t not paid) every month during the furlough period? But now we need to RM has to offer the same deal as to the other 7 thats for certain.

Wasn’t sure if you knew i was just clarifying

I am not picking holes or having a go, i agree with a lot of the points just giving thoughts on how some could perceive things and a view on the out of date PFA :)

 

[Westcliff DGS]

- McLaughlin - would need to accept a massive wage cut to resign with us

- Sam Mantom - unlikely to play again for us

- Luke Hyam - unlikely to play for us again

- Theo Robinson - won’t come back here

From those four, I think it’s probable that we’ll say goodbye to all of them.

Then we are left with the remaining 5, all of which I’d like to keep;

- Tom Clifford
- Sam Barratt
- Lewis Gard
- Michael Klass
- Harry Phillips

I’d suggest that Clifford, Gard & Phillips have genuine resale value, so the club will want to hold onto them. None of them will be on extraordinary wages, and as long as it’s realistic for Lg2’s wage cap, then I can’t see why the club wouldn’t want to hold onto them.

However, it’s obvious that we’ll have to reinforce in the transfer window, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see a good few departures

Re players i think your right 3 3 of them, Macca i think could stay, my understanding is he has an option on the clubs side but also could go for a new deal which would be on reduced terms. Not heard anything on those terms, but believe he has interest outside of us as well (all offering lower than his current SUFC deal), but does want to stay with us.

From the youngsters I would like to keep those you state, only slight reservation is Barratt but hard to say when he hasnt played too much. I know RM said some of the youngsters hadn’t signed as yet and he found that strange, I had heard 1 of them point blankly refused and is signing elsewhere i hope that is wrong.

 

[kentblues]

Re players i think your right 3 3 of them, Macca i think could stay, my understanding is he has an option on the clubs side but also could go for a new deal which would be on reduced terms. Not heard anything on those terms, but believe he has interest outside of us as well (all offering lower than his current SUFC deal), but does want to stay with us.

From the youngsters I would like to keep those you state, only slight reservation is Barratt but hard to say when he hasnt played too much. I know RM said some of the youngsters hadn’t signed as yet and he found that strange, I had heard 1 of them point blankly refused and is signing elsewhere i hope that is wrong.

We will find out next week I guess.
I thought the list also included White, Milligan, Shaunessy, then the 4 mentioned, remaining 5 and of course the youngsters who have not signed.
Agree in GBJ's list of 4 only McL would I want to keep. He will have to take a haircut on his wages whether he stays or gos very likely (new world)- but I guess he is discovering that from what you say.
I don't think its a co-incidence that our retained list is not being announced now until next week and can't help but feel the outcome regarding furlough will decide whether some are retained or not.
Maybe we will lose one or more youngsters for one reason or another- if one is signing elsewhere then it's for someone who can afford a fee (U24) which is going to be a rarity at L1/L2 level, maybe its higher. The reality is there are going to be a large number of proven, decent performers looking for a club at a time when squads are reducing and contracts getting reduced. The club has to do what's right for the club at this exceptional time, and players have to make the right choice for them, again at a very difficult time and hopefully based on good sound advise.
The one thing I would say to the youngsters is that I genuinely think they will get plenty of game time next year. That may or may not be the case elsewhere.
As I say I think there will be no clarity until we see the retained list.

 

[GBJ]

Not aware of the PFA zoom chat, but if thats what RM said then isnt that inline with the other 7?

I don’t think so. I think the original seven may have had better cast iron guarantees, but again, I’m not completely sure.

Re not furloughing is that a credit to the club as we have paid 100% (assumption is we haven’t not paid) every month during the furlough period? But now we need to RM has to offer the same deal as to the other 7 thats for certain.

Definitely it’s a credit to the club in that respect. I bet Ron wished our wage budget wasn’t so high right now, but credit to him for managing it.

I am not picking holes or having a go, i agree with a lot of the points just giving thoughts on how some could perceive things and a view on the out of date PFA :)

I don’t see your posts as picking holes, or having a go. I enjoy the discussion tbh.

**** all else to do at the moment anyway ??

 

[GBJ]

We will find out next week I guess.
I thought the list also included White, Milligan, Shaunessy, then the 4 mentioned, remaining 5 and of course the youngsters who have not signed.

I purposely left Milligan out, as his future is in the balance, with regards to retirement. I can’t see him staying here under Sol tbh.

Forgot about White, I’d happily keep him.

I don't think its a co-incidence that our retained list is not being announced now until next week and can't help but feel the outcome regarding furlough will decide whether some are retained or not

Whilst it’s probably part of the reason we haven’t found out yet, I’d suggest it was more likely down to Sol & Ron’s chat, which I was expecting them to have at some time this week tbh.

Once that is ironed out, then the squad can be sorted.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Milligan has a coaching option doesn’t he? Be interesting to see how thats handled.

I like the discussion the forum brings so try to avoid criticising but rather see if their are alternate view points.

 

[kentblues]

I purposely left Milligan out, as his future is in the balance, with regards to retirement. I can’t see him staying here under Sol tbh.

Forgot about White, I’d happily keep him.



Whilst it’s probably part of the reason we haven’t found out yet, I’d suggest it was more likely down to Sol & Ron’s chat, which I was expecting them to have at some time this week tbh.

Once that is ironed out, then the squad can be sorted.

Milligan is an interesting one. By consensus once he was playing with the kids end of last season he came into his own and showed as a player he had something to offer. And he could certainly do it for another year at L2 level.

If coaching is where he wants to go then a player coach role for a season may work- he may well accept a reduced wage to get the coaching experience. Maybe if he was focussed on working with the younger players in particular with both first team and U23/Academy. As you say Sol's view will be critical but I sensed Sol quite rates him and his attitude. Again we will see.

John White absolutely- sets the right example re attitude and training, again good to have around the youngsters and likely will be flexible in order to stay on.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

I would keep White & McLaughlin, as they have experiences of League 2 and would guide our young players & tell them what to expect. Milligan is one I would keep, to do the dirty work in the middle, while letting our young players to be his leg. Barrett would be an useful League 2 player and I think he have loads to offer for us.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

No worries guys. I understand some of you sticking up for players, or the honouring of contracts thing, but from little bits coming out of the club, the wotsit really is about to hit the fan. SUFC is in a dire situation, possibly worse than ever before. So we will see how this unfolds.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

Shaunessy is another I would keep, as he would be good League 2 defender, rest of them like of Klass can go.

 

[Ricey]

No worries guys. I understand some of you sticking up for players, or the honouring of contracts thing, but from little bits coming out of the club, the wotsit really is about to hit the fan. SUFC is in a dire situation, possibly worse than ever before. So we will see how this unfolds.

Do you mean from the players or financially, or both?

 

[Colorado Shrimper]

No worries guys. I understand some of you sticking up for players, or the honouring of contracts thing, but from little bits coming out of the club, the wotsit really is about to hit the fan. SUFC is in a dire situation, possibly worse than ever before. So we will see how this unfolds.

If you had to bet mate, would you be betting on SUFC going to the wall?

 

[GBJ]

No worries guys. I understand some of you sticking up for players, or the honouring of contracts thing, but from little bits coming out of the club, the wotsit really is about to hit the fan. SUFC is in a dire situation, possibly worse than ever before. So we will see how this unfolds.

You’re spot on mate.

I’m genuinely concerned for next season, it’s why we have to get things sorted straight away.

Relegation and the effects of Covid will cost us potentially £3m, which is on top of the fact that we already operate at a £2m loss during an average season.

I’ve said before, the one glimmer of hope that does exist, is the fact that the council have cleared the first hurdle of the new stadium. That gives Ron scope to acquire new investment.

I’m not saying it’s a get out of jail free card, but it’s certainly not insignificant either.

We need a complete restructuring of the finances & how they’re dished out. No more lucrative contracts for has-beens. No more financial gymnastics for management teams. No more losing £200k every single month.

The next couple of years might be a bit rough as we come to terms with the effects of Covid, so for now, we need to live within our means, which sadly, might be hard to take for some fans, but I’d rather that than have no club left.

 

[kentblues]

On the finances my guess is we are very fortunate regarding timing. There is a circa £300m (est) project run through Citizen Housing which is 50% Ron (son) and 50% a couple of property billionaires. The new stadium has to be built first and the club central to (a condition of) the project. It is difficult to see the necessary money's not coming through this relationship in the same way Sainsbury's needed to do the necessary a few years back. That's not to say things wont be very tight- all concerned will want to keep any investment as low as possible, and the club to as much as possible to wash its face. My take without any particular inside knowledge.

 

[GBJ]

If you had to bet mate, would you be betting on SUFC going to the wall?

If we carry on the way we’re going, I wouldn’t bet against it.

I’ll just reiterate this point... we’ve had - IIRC - seventeen winding up orders, over the course of the last decade. Seventeen.

And yet we still refuse to reign our spending in, to operate within a strict budget.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

As long as the stadium redevelopment is on the table, we won’t be going bust. The cash will be found. SUFC will be here after the current bunch of players have ****ed off and Ron will be looking to secure the club’s future by reducing costs all round. That’s my take on it anyway. Ideally we’ll hang on to the promising youngsters (who won’t be bombarded with better offers I can’t imagine with other clubs cutting costs). Certain players will be gone at the first opportunity due to finances. In the past they’d have found another club but maybe things will be different, post Covid.

 

[Medway Blue]

I imagine the re-finacing that is being/has been undertaken (likely using an advance of money from the Zakays and/or other multi-millionaire Fossett's development partners, secured against the deal signed with the council) will act like the Sainsbury's money did way back when and will see us through. But it'll only see us through if the playing budget at this club is radically overhauled and reduced. That HAS to be the name of the game now that the season is over.