why i believe that an untargeted slashing of the welfare budget is a false economy.

[superblue24]

Out of interest, what exactly would you do?

I don't happen to have a manifesto, but I'm probably aligned with UKIP for the most part. I'd crack down on benefit **** takers and tighten up immigration massively.

More common sense on lower level issues such as schooling and needless red tape.

The problem for me is that too many people in this country don't take responsibility for their actions and look to blame someone else always. People are happy with a soft line government, so we'll never see any significant improvement without upsetting a majority, otherwise the tories would be imposing harder cuts.

 

[steveo]

I'm going to argue the unpopular. I'm going to argue that the current plans to reform the welfare budget should be scrapped because the problems they cause will cost more to resolve than they will save.

I'm not going to argue for no reform. I hate the current system and agree with much of the new right critique of the welfare state. However I do not agree with the answers that IDS will be implementing this year.

Before I get on my shrimperzone soap box it would be interesting to know how much benefit zoners believe unemployed people are being paid under the current system. Please don't look it up this is about perception. If you already know please don't post.

By benefit I mean maximum total benefit/week. This will include housing/council/unemployment and child related benefit.

Single person under 21
Single person 21-35
Single person 35+
Singe person, one child
Couple one child
Couple 6 children

edit - if these people lived in southend

I've got absolutely no idea Apple but it amazes me how many unemployed or low paid people can "afford" to smoke.

Also,would you be against unemployed people working for their benefit, maybe 3 days a week? Clearing litter or repairing pot holes - the things councils are usually struggle to do properly within their budgets.

 

[maninasuitcase]

I've got absolutely no idea Apple but it amazes me how many unemployed or low paid people can "afford" to smoke.

Also,would you be against unemployed people working for their benefit, maybe 3 days a week? Clearing litter or repairing pot holes - the things councils are usually struggle to do properly within their budgets.

After 26 years in continuous employment, just over three years ago I was unemployed for 10 months. I got around £33/week in JSA and applied for at least one job a day. I had exactly three interviews in that time, and was offered just one job which I took. In order to keep receiving my benefit I had to prove I'd been seeking work

I would have happily picked up litter for minimum wage, but not to 'earn' my benefit. If the job exists then a proper wage should be paid, the unemployed should not be used as cheap labour.

BTW, looking for job is quite time consuming and without internet access it can be quite difficult. I had to use the local library but they only allow a maximum of two hours online per day. If I'd spent my days picking up litter I am not sure I'd have had time to apply for as many jobs as I did.

 

[McNasty]

People are required to apply for several jobs a week and their benefits will be stopped if they are not actively seeking employment and if they miss an advisor interview without good cause their money stops for 4 weeks.

 

[superblue24]

What for example if it is a guy who say worked for 20-30 years and lost his job through no fault of his own and had to seek help. Would the fact he had paid tax all those years mean he was still sponging off your wage or are you just picking on the kids?

I would agree there are a certain element who do not want to work and would rather sit on their bum all day and these people are generally unemployable in today's market. The bottom line is there are not enough jobs in this country for the amount of people who now live here.

The person in the scenario you mention would of course be entitled to help in my opinion. As long as he is able to prove he is "trying" to get work, he\she's ok in my book.

steveo's point is a good one. I see so many jobless people smoking cigarettes and drinking tennants super off benefit cash. Something can't be right there. If they can afford alcohol and cigs, they are being paid too much.

 

[superblue24]

People are required to apply for several jobs a week and their benefits will be stopped if they are not actively seeking employment and if they miss an advisor interview without good cause their money stops for 4 weeks.

This is supposed to happen, but does it?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Anytime. Put me in charge. There'd be some changes around here. I wouldn't be liked by foreigners or slackers, but I'd get things straightened out.

I'm neither a slacker or a foreigner and I don't like the sound of you either.

 

[McNasty]

This is supposed to happen, but does it?

Of course it does.

 

[superblue24]

Of course it does.

I know a few people who have been on benefits for years and claim not to go to meetings or job interviews, so something isn't right.

Can you also explain how this happens if you're so confident it's all in "working order"?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...0-presents-children.html?ICO=most_read_module

 

[McNasty]

I know a few people who have been on benefits for years and claim not to go to meetings or job interviews, so something isn't right.

Can you also explain how this happens if you're so confident it's all in "working order"?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...0-presents-children.html?ICO=most_read_module

Do you know what benefits these people are on ? There are different rules for different benefits.

 

[Cricko]

The person in the scenario you mention would of course be entitled to help in my opinion. As long as he is able to prove he is "trying" to get work, he\she's ok in my book.

steveo's point is a good one. I see so many jobless people smoking cigarettes and drinking tennants super off benefit cash. Something can't be right there. If they can afford alcohol and cigs, they are being paid too much.

Not defending those that hang around street corners supping cans of Tennants and smoking but even people with cash in the bank ( I think it is below 16k, but Ken will correct me if I am wrong) are entitled to benefits. Maybe just some can afford it.You are very fond of tarring everybody with the same brush.

Whether that is right or wrong is another debate.

 

[callan]

For me the benefits system has to change, it's open to abuse and that needs to stop.
I would like to see something along the lines of no one can claim any benefit unless they have been resident in the uk for a period of ten years.
No extra benefit for single mothers after the second child, including housing benefit.
A total revamp of the csa wiith a flat rate percentage rate of absent parents earnings per child which is capped.
An investigation into social housing for the other 60's (where you have a single person living in 4 bed accomodation etc) and an end to automatic succession.
An end to DLA p(pip) payments because a child has adhd.
More training schemes for the under 25's similar to the youth opportunity programmes back in the 80's.

 

[Cricko]

For me the benefits system has to change, it's open to abuse and that needs to stop.
I would like to see something along the lines of no one can claim any benefit unless they have been resident in the uk for a period of ten years.
No extra benefit for single mothers after the second child, including housing benefit.
A total revamp of the csa wiith a flat rate percentage rate of absent parents earnings per child which is capped.
An investigation into social housing for the other 60's (where you have a single person living in 4 bed accomodation etc) and an end to automatic succession.
An end to DLA p(pip) payments because a child has adhd.
More training schemes for the under 25's similar to the youth opportunity programmes back in the 80's.

Yup spot on Steve.

 

[OldBlueLady]

For me the benefits system has to change, it's open to abuse and that needs to stop.
I would like to see something along the lines of no one can claim any benefit unless they have been resident in the uk for a period of ten years.
No extra benefit for single mothers after the second child, including housing benefit.
A total revamp of the csa wiith a flat rate percentage rate of absent parents earnings per child which is capped.
An investigation into social housing for the other 60's (where you have a single person living in 4 bed accommodation etc) and an end to automatic succession.
An end to DLA p(pip) payments because a child has adhd.
More training schemes for the under 25's similar to the youth opportunity programmes back in the 80's.

Agree with most of that, but must take you up on the highlighted one, which is Disability Living Allowance presumably. Why would you end that? I work with children that have ADHD and it can be very damaging to family life, I know of a child with severe ADHD where the mother has had to fight tooth and nail to get his disability recognised so the child can get the help he needs - by taking him out of mainstream where he was constantly labelled as "naughty and disobedient", and putting him into specialist schooling. I don't know if it's classified as such, but to me, it's like a mental disorder and as such I don't begrudge DLA for them at all.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

ADHD is known as the golden ticket in welfare claimant circles.

 

[MK Shrimper]

ADHD is known as the golden ticket in welfare claimant circles.

Nice one. I'll add that to the list. I can barely go 10 minutes without logging onto ShrimperZone. :thumbsup:

 

[Napster]

I thought ADHD were hair straighteners.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

It's an employers' market though. There are so many very well qualified people out there that they have the pick of who they employ.

I was made redundant at Christmas, first time in a 40 year career i've been un-employed. Since Jan i've applied for nearly 60 jobs, and had about 7 replies. I'm not a 'one trick pony' having been Production/Works Manager, Customer Services Manager, Sales and Account Manager, as well as having a skilled trade(Printing).
Trouble is as soon as they know your age (55) you are stereo typed as having Tomato soup stains on your shirt, and past it or to qualified.
Never mind the fact i still run 4 times a week and walk in excess of 20 miles weekly, and am probably one of the fittest guys in the area for my age!

 

[Cricko]

I was made redundant at Christmas, first time in a 40 year career i've been un-employed. Since Jan i've applied for nearly 60 jobs, and had about 7 replies. I'm not a 'one trick pony' having been Production/Works Manager, Customer Services Manager, Sales and Account Manager, as well as having a skilled trade(Printing).
Trouble is as soon as they know your age (55) you are stereo typed as having Tomato soup stains on your shirt, and past it or to qualified.
Never mind the fact i still run 4 times a week and walk in excess of 20 miles weekly, and am probably one of the fittest guys in the area for my age!

Why aren't you on some street corner drinking Tennants and smoking? :winking:

 

[OldBlueLady]

ADHD is known as the golden ticket in welfare claimant circles.

Really? I had no idea. I do know that some of those who suffer with ADHD are really unmanageable though, so as long as it's not abused and is properly authenticated, I don't have a problem with it.

I was made redundant at Christmas, first time in a 40 year career i've been un-employed. Since Jan i've applied for nearly 60 jobs, and had about 7 replies. I'm not a 'one trick pony' having been Production/Works Manager, Customer Services Manager, Sales and Account Manager, as well as having a skilled trade(Printing).
Trouble is as soon as they know your age (55) you are stereo typed as having Tomato soup stains on your shirt, and past it or to qualified.
Never mind the fact i still run 4 times a week and walk in excess of 20 miles weekly, and am probably one of the fittest guys in the area for my age!

My son was advised at the Job Centre last week, not to put anything on your CV that relates to your age. No date of birth and just a mention of your qualifications, not when they were obtained.