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Winding Up Petitions

I know its probably not the right attitude to have and I am no expert, but I'm so used to these winding up petitions now they don't even bother me.

Seems like Ron uses them as final reminders..
If you are interested to have a look at the latest winding up order link above you will see a timeline thing showing how many times we're been there. We appear to have been out of the manure over the last few years but looking at that timeline does explain why you feel as you do. It is a game of chicken to Ron and he will pay before the hearing. To be fair to him the club has had bugger all income coming in during the summer so he has to wait until we get a little cash rich from whatever source. It's of absolutely no use to him to be wound up as all his plans will collapse so one way or another he will cough up.
 
I know its probably not the right attitude to have and I am no expert, but I'm so used to these winding up petitions now they don't even bother me.

Seems like Ron uses them as final reminders..

Which is in effect exactly what they are- it’s the next communication after you don’t pay exactly by the original date.
 
Makes you wonder who is winding up who. Ron has played this game many times before and knows just how far to go.
 
I fancy our odds of beating this one again, so far we are undefeated against the HMRC
 
HRMC v Southend United Head to Head
HRMC v Southend United 08/12/2009 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 16/02/2011 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 18/02/2013 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 21/05/2013 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 18/07/2013 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 18/03/2015 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 26/07/2019 TBA
 

And just like all the others (and the next ones) this has nothing to do with the club’s financial position. It’s about the timing of payment and Ron’s policy of only paying HMRC right at the very last legal moment and HMRC not learning from this, wasting taxpayers money in doomed-to-fail court cases instead of properly building a relationship with a business that operates within the law but not within HMRC policy (not the same thing!).
 
Agree entirely, although different rules can be applied by HMRC - just ask the likes of Amazon, Google or Apple etc.
 
And just like all the others (and the next ones) this has nothing to do with the club’s financial position. It’s about the timing of payment and Ron’s policy of only paying HMRC right at the very last legal moment and HMRC not learning from this, wasting taxpayers money in doomed-to-fail court cases instead of properly building a relationship with a business that operates within the law but not within HMRC policy (not the same thing!).
Sorry Spiff, can't resist responding. HMRC spent years building relationships with football clubs and trying to be understanding. Because of the finacial chaos that exists within clubs a large number of them took huge liberties when it cameto payment, pleading time to pay please. Thus HMRC's policy became hard nosed and now it's court first and see what happens. After all, the rest of us have to pay tax on time so why not Ron?
 
Sorry Spiff, can't resist responding. HMRC spent years building relationships with football clubs and trying to be understanding. Because of the finacial chaos that exists within clubs a large number of them took huge liberties when it cameto payment, pleading time to pay please. Thus HMRC's policy became hard nosed and now it's court first and see what happens. After all, the rest of us have to pay tax on time so why not Ron?

Yes that's completely true RHB. However they are part of government and they must continue to engage in the public interest. Ron does pay on time according to law but not according to policy. I didn't say that was right or desirable, what I did say is that HMRC's duty to public funds extends to not doing the exact same thing for a 15th time that has failed 14 times before at taxpayers expense, and will fail again for a 16th time in due course. That course of action is not in the public interest, as they are certain to lose and gain no benefit. Pragmatism is as important as the policy rulebook.

Again, just to be completely clear, I am not supporting Ron's position. I'm saying this case wont succeed and will cost money for no benefit. That's all. We come up against this type of situation time and again in government.
 
Yes that's completely true RHB. However they are part of government and they must continue to engage in the public interest. Ron does pay on time according to law but not according to policy. I didn't say that was right or desirable, what I did say is that HMRC's duty to public funds extends to not doing the exact same thing for a 15th time that has failed 14 times before at taxpayers expense, and will fail again for a 16th time in due course. That course of action is not in the public interest, as they are certain to lose and gain no benefit. Pragmatism is as important as the policy rulebook.

Again, just to be completely clear, I am not supporting Ron's position. I'm saying this case wont succeed and will cost money for no benefit. That's all. We come up against this type of situation time and again in government.

Ok, I'll cop a plea here. Insider information advises that this is the cheapest, most cost efficient way of getting dosh out of football clubs.
 
Update

HRMC v Southend United Head to Head
HRMC v Southend United 08/12/2009 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 16/02/2011 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 18/02/2013 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 21/05/2013 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 18/07/2013 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 18/03/2015 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 26/07/2019 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 16/10/2019 TBA
 
And just like all the others (and the next ones) this has nothing to do with the club’s financial position. It’s about the timing of payment and Ron’s policy of only paying HMRC right at the very last legal moment and HMRC not learning from this, wasting taxpayers money in doomed-to-fail court cases instead of properly building a relationship with a business that operates within the law but not within HMRC policy (not the same thing!).

1. It has everything to do with the club's financial position. Ron's only doing it because the club doesn't have the cashflow.

2. HMRC aren't wasting taxpayers' money as it works and Ron eventually scrambles together the cash. People who don't go down this route with Ron may have to wait months if not years. The winding up order is the means of getting their money, not the end.

3. Forget wasting taxpayers' money it wastes SUFC's money with fines and expenses.


Update

HRMC v Southend United Head to Head
HRMC v Southend United 08/12/2009 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 16/02/2011 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 18/02/2013 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 21/05/2013 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 18/07/2013 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 18/03/2015 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 26/07/2019 SUFC (Ron) paid Partition Dismissed, SUFC Win
HRMC v Southend United 16/10/2019 TBA

it's like he's the anti-Bond
 
This is one of those times where everyone has a view but not necessarily based on all the hard facts at source (the law), including many well meaning civil servants at HMRC. The HMRC policy which produces the P45 document is a case in point, where I am leading work with HMRC to amend their policy to facilitate compliance through an alternative technological route in specific circumstances. HMRC policy marries compliance with the Employment Act 1996, with (understandable) operational convenience for HMRC.

It is not, however, the only way to comply with the law (a legal interpretation that in the case of the specific relevant wording in the Employment Act 1996 is broad enough to facilitate more than one way to comply, yet HMRC rules are less flexible) and innovation requires a different policy response. HMRC policy are generally not themselves aware of that, unless they are themselves the source of the proposed innovation, until it is pointed out to them. In fairness, they are then open to changing their policy. I'll leave it there I think, as clearly I do agree with the other suggestion that Ron could operate differently.
 
I see this as an opportunity: it's a chance to get our first win of the season.
 
Sorry, not techy enough to create a link, but just read 'Southend United issued with new winding-up petition as financial problems continue' on the BBC website. There, cheered you all up no end haven't I?
 
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