Wordsworth and a new contract

[RHB]

This thread is about Wordsworth and his new contract, please, lets not wander too far off topic, in fact lets not wander off topic at all. Thank you all.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

I think you will find that Mr Sturrock played Ryan Leonard in midfield when he signed him.
Mr Brown had a lot to thank Mr Sturrock for - the back bone of his promotion team
Bentley
Timlin
Leonard
Corr
Prosser
Hurst

and of course Jack Payne was on the books as well.

In fairness to PB he was the one that stuck with Lenny in CM. Sturrock tried it in a pre season when we were struggling for numbers at CM and he didn't look up to it. Didn't see him in CM again under Sturrock I don't think.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The good news from that Echo article is Woody'll probably be back against Oldham.:thumbsup:

 

[TTS]

I think you will find that Mr Sturrock played Ryan Leonard in midfield when he signed him.
Mr Brown had a lot to thank Mr Sturrock for - the back bone of his promotion team
Bentley
Timlin
Leonard
Corr
Prosser
Hurst

and of course Jack Payne was on the books as well.

So well done to the manager that got that team promoted then, as you say, the players were there, but we went up under a different manager ........

Back to Wordy, the way I see it, talks have started ( they need to start to stall ), now, to push these talks through, 1 party goes public. Once they go public, the Club then decide if they wish to up the offer, which I hope they do. The issue we have here is, what with PB ( no I am turning this thread ) himself being out of contract, sometimes this also impacts players own discussions with the Club, with uncertainty around the manager !

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

So your saying well done to PB for turning a right back who couldn't get into Southend's team in L2 into one of the best L1 covering mid-fielders......Which scout spotted that when he was at Plymouth....Not always as obvious as you make out. Why didn't Gillingham or Orient spot Ricky Holmes at Chelmsford but tried to sign him from Barnet.....Not always as obvious as you make out.

Cox scored 16 goals with 10 assists. Ferdinand tightened up and organised our leaking relegation threatened defence, including turning Thompson into a very good player for the rest of the season.

That's why we climbed up to 7th because we signed some old boys on their way down. Ask anyone from Pompey, MK or Oxford if Turner looks like a bad signing.

Harry Kyp will be looking forward to working and learning with such experience when he returns from injury. Lets hope we all benefit from that combination.

I'm no scout but even I was saying on here we needed to lock Ryan Leonard up to a long term contract as a future key midfielder before Brown ever darkened the doorway of Roots Hall.

Cox, Ferdinand and Turner were all short term fixes with no long term value and I doubt came cheaply. Kyprianou could be a long term fix and could have some value but has made under 10 league starts to date having been ignored after a bright start last season, so it is still very early days. I hope he comes good and we get something longer term out of Brown's reign as manager. If he does, I will credit Brown for his signing and development but that's still a meagre return in the transfer market.

 

[rlb999]

Strange timing from Wordsworth I think - surely you declare your value to the club when you’re playing really well - whereas to be fair he’s been pretty average so far this season? I’d agree that an on-form Wordsworth makes us tick as a team, but he’s not found that form of late.
But this is also a consequence of our rectruitment of late - we’ve gone for higher profile players who we all assume are on better money than those they replaced. It’s going to make other team members who do a good job look at them and say “I should be on what they are on”. If I was Coker, Wordsworth, Leonard, Timlin, I’d be interested in this. Recruitment isn’t just about who you sign - it’s about not dividing the camp whilst you sign them!

 

[TTS]

I'm no scout but even I was saying on here we needed to lock Ryan Leonard up to a long term contract as a future key midfielder before Brown ever darkened the doorway of Roots Hall.

Cox, Ferdinand and Turner were all short term fixes with no long term value and I doubt came cheaply. Kyprianou could be a long term fix and could have some value but has made under 10 league starts to date having been ignored after a bright start last season, so it is still very early days. I hope he comes good and we get something longer term out of Brown's reign as manager. If he does, I will credit Brown for his signing and development but that's still a meagre return in the transfer market.

So you would let Wordsworth go then, as he is standing in the way of Yearwood and other midfielders development ?

Just thought I would ask a Wordsworth based question, and as you're playing the age card, you believe that Wordy is over the hill now as he is only 2 years younger than Cox, so now, he is the same age as Cox was almost when Cox was bought in and he is/was a "short term fix" ?

 

[rigsby]

I'm no scout but even I was saying on here we needed to lock Ryan Leonard up to a long term contract as a future key midfielder before Brown ever darkened the doorway of Roots Hall.

Cox, Ferdinand and Turner were all short term fixes with no long term value and I doubt came cheaply. Kyprianou could be a long term fix and could have some value but has made under 10 league starts to date having been ignored after a bright start last season, so it is still very early days. I hope he comes good and we get something longer term out of Brown's reign as manager. If he does, I will credit Brown for his signing and development but that's still a meagre return in the transfer market.

That's because he has tore his thigh muscle. Its not just over 30's who get injured.

PB has only spent £25,000 which is far less than any other manger we have had, who has lasted any length of time. Perhaps its because we are now £10m in debt. Still £2m+ for Bentley and Payne helps. If Ron had taken £800,000 for Lenny that would make PB the most successful manger for developing and selling players in our history......Now you wouldn't want that would you?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

That's because he has tore his thigh muscle. Its not just over 30's who get injured.

PB has only spent £25,000 which is far less than any other manger we have had, who has lasted any length of time. Perhaps its because we are now £10m in debt. Still £2m+ for Bentley and Payne helps. If Ron had taken £800,000 for Lenny that would make PB the most successful manger for developing and selling players in our history......Now you wouldn't want that would you?

Does that include signing on fees? I would include any signing on fee as part of the transfer fee for any player.

I agree on your point on Kyprianou. If he hadn't been injured, he would be a tough player to remove from the starting 11

 

[Thundersley Blue]

There is no doubt Wordsworth is a key player and probably is worth an improved contract. However, he needs to prove that he can stay fit and play a much higher percentage of matches. I for one hope he is fit to start on Saturday, will give us a much better chance of 3 points.

 

[Pak Power]

That's because he has tore his thigh muscle. Its not just over 30's who get injured.

PB has only spent £25,000 which is far less than any other manger we have had, who has lasted any length of time. Perhaps its because we are now £10m in debt. Still £2m+ for Bentley and Payne helps. If Ron had taken £800,000 for Lenny that would make PB the most successful manger for developing and selling players in our history......Now you wouldn't want that would you?

None of which Phil Brown signed!

On topic, FWIW I would try and keep AW , but trying not to break the bank to do so.
I guess that will always be the case for most clubs outside the premiership.

 

[rigsby]

I'm no scout but even I was saying on here we needed to lock Ryan Leonard up to a long term contract as a future key midfielder before Brown ever darkened the doorway of Roots Hall.

.

Me neither. Did try Boys Brigade for a month but was banned for a 'professional foul' during indoor hockey.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

So you would let Wordsworth go then, as he is standing in the way of Yearwood and other midfielders development ?

Just thought I would ask a Wordsworth based question, and as you're playing the age card, you believe that Wordy is over the hill now as he is only 2 years younger than Cox, so now, he is the same age as Cox was almost when Cox was bought in and he is/was a "short term fix" ?

Possibly. I haven't made a decision on where he fits yet.

I believe in having a mix of ages and that you need to get the balance right. Webby's great team had youngsters in like Austin, Powell, Prior, Tilly, Ansah and Angell but it also had experience in Sammy, Clarky, Martin and Benji. Tilly had the experience of Prior and Goater alongside the much younger Eastwood and Barrett.

I wouldn't be adverse to one of Ferdinand or Turner alongside an up and coming player but both in central defence seems excessive, especially when we have John White as cover. Similarly I wouldn't be adverse to one of Fortune or Cox alongside an up and coming player but both up front seems excessive and again we have experienced cover in Theo Robinson.

Likewise Leonard, Wordsworth, Timlin, Wright, Kightly, McGlashan and McLaughlin offer plenty of experience in midfield (and left-back!) but limited future value. The balance in there isn't right. Unfortunately Leonard, who would be top of my list to retain (and is also the youngest), is likely off by next season.

Wordsworth may be the most talented of that lot, but whilst he may have ability, how many games can we rely on him for next season and what are we aiming for next season? If we are only aiming to stay up, a player who offers extra quality but may only be available for 25 games (he's started 57 out of 111 for us, which averages as 23 a season) might be worth it but if we're looking for the play-offs we're going to need greater consistency than that availability will allow. His being unavailable at the moment is not a positive sign in that regard. Without proving his durability over an extended period (and we're not yet halfway through the season), I'd have a hard time making him the centre point/spine of the rebuild. I'd still be open to having him as a more supplementary part if he doesn't prove that durability, but that would need to fit within the wage structure.

With regard to the age aspect, once players have passed their peak (and midfielders peak later than forwards) availability doesn't tend to improve as it may do with a young player adjusting to the rigours of professional football and their body growing. I think it's more to do with wear on the body than just age (with "age" as shorthand for the older someone is the more wear and tear they are likely to have).

 

[rlb999]

There is no doubt Wordsworth is a key player and probably is worth an improved contract.

How can you say he’s worth an improved contract when you don’t know what he’s on? He might be the highest paid player at the club already, but asking for 50% more.
Wayne Rooney was a key player at Man United when everything else there was going pear shaped and managed to get them to agree to £300,000 a week for 5 years. His form then declined and, according to the media, United are still shelling out for some of his wages whilst he pulls on another clubs shirt each week - and will be for 2 more years.
Don’t forget that our problems at the end of the Tilson era all stemmed from our wage bill and being unable to get rid of it.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I'm afraid that this is a direct result of a totally unbalanced wage structure within the club. We have some players on very high contracts, others not so much, and others still somewhere in the middle.

At Woody's age and with his goal scoring record, personally I feel that we should be trying to come to some agreement that suits him. He's been unlucky with his injuries and the resultant operations the last two seasons but he's still managed to score loads of goals and make some quality count.

If Lenny goes, then we simply cannot lose Woody as well, creativity will dry up totally in the centre. I know he hopes to play Saturday, he's an important character in the dressing room.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

That's because he has tore his thigh muscle. Its not just over 30's who get injured.

Did he have a torn thigh muscle for all but 140 minutes last season as well?

PB has only spent £25,000 which is far less than any other manger we have had, who has lasted any length of time. Perhaps its because we are now £10m in debt. Still £2m+ for Bentley and Payne helps. If Ron had taken £800,000 for Lenny that would make PB the most successful manger for developing and selling players in our history......Now you wouldn't want that would you?

Maybe PB would have more money to spend on transfer fees and we'd be less in debt if we paid less in wages to the overs 30s, signed some young players of his own with sell on value (none of those three he brought to the club!) and had some cup runs?

 

[manor15]

Surprised people are upset by this.

Wordsworth has contributed far more to the side than the likes of Kightly, Cox, Ferdinand, Turner, etc have who are all more than likely on a higher wage. Don't blame him for pushing for more.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Me neither. Did try Boys Brigade for a month but was banned for a 'professional foul' during indoor hockey.

Ha! I joined the Boys Brigade for about a month too, when they held a summer football tournament.Left immediately afterwards.

Some who know me on here, will be suprised to learn that I wasn't "banned for a professional foul" too. :winking:

 

[Barry.C]

Wordsworth is probably worth keeping on as a squad player, we would miss his free kick ability and that creative spark that has led him to knock in 19 goals in 66 appearances, I suggest quite favourable compared with our current forwards average per game. He has been very unlucky with injuries as for the 4 years 2008-11 he managed a very high average of 39 games per season, In the last 4 years this has dropped to 21, I assume because of injury rather than any other frailty that might effect contract considerations
He does like to get forward and I would love the club to actually share more info with us paying fans around some of the stats available to them, but maybe this should remain confidential for many reasons. His languid style may indeed hide the fact he does get about more than I imagine. The downside is sometimes forgotten and that is a tendency to give silly goals away.

 

[Floval Flyer]

I thought Wordsworth was pivotal to our flirtation with the playoffs last season, and I’m surprised his contract wasn’t extended by another year before the start of this season. We seem to have a few other key players in the same situation, but instead the club chose to renegotiate a longer deal with Theo, until 2020.

I'd like Wordsworth to stay, especially since Lenny is likely to leave in the near future. The club still hasn’t secured deals with Ted Smith, Mark Oxley, Demetriou, John White, Timlin, Jack Bridge, Coxy, MAF & even Harry Kyprianou – all of whom are out of contract in the summer.

At least 4 of the above plus AW need to be signed up for another season ASAP (Oxley and Kyps longer term IMHO).

Given our recruitment track-record, re-signing valued players already at the club is paramount. We need to get it sorted or face another ‘Lenny’ situation.