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Massimo Giovanni

Old Timer⭐
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
8,394
Location
Siena
And what about our own club and our own supporters?

What are we doing to further youth football in this country when we are tolerating a first team that has one player under the age of 27 (and he turned 25 last season).

The problem for English football is Elvis Bwomono and Dru Yearwood's lack of playing time.

Elvis has apparently been man of the match twice in his four appearances for us.

Dru was by all accounts the star of the pre-season but the manager then didn't play him to start the season and then went and signed someone a decade older in his position.

Jack Bridge is 22 and has 190 minutes of professional football to his name. Yeah, I know he has to impress in training but even when Coughlin says he has he doesn't get league time.

This is the problem of English football. It's replicated at every club, just not to the extreme it is at ours.

This starts here.

All very true, and that is why we ought to have progressed beyond the 1st round of the League Cup, keep playing Check-a-Trade and (sadly flopped in) the Essex Senior. These are all games in which young players make their plays and get into the squad and then into the starting 11.
I am pleased we have NO loan players this year and also that the squad (in number) had less senior pros.
In an ideal situation we could get a three goal "cushion" and replace a few oldies with some of the younger lads however we don't have that option in games so far.
And I would, just as a quick idea,-unthought through fully- suggest that in an ideal League want a FA ruling that 3 players in a starting 11 need to be Academy products.
 

Yorkshire Blue

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All very true, and that is why we ought to have progressed beyond the 1st round of the League Cup, keep playing Check-a-Trade and (sadly flopped in) the Essex Senior. These are all games in which young players make their plays and get into the squad and then into the starting 11.
I am pleased we have NO loan players this year and also that the squad (in number) had less senior pros.
In an ideal situation we could get a three goal "cushion" and replace a few oldies with some of the younger lads however we don't have that option in games so far.
And I would, just as a quick idea,-unthought through fully- suggest that in an ideal League want a FA ruling that 3 players in a starting 11 need to be Academy products.

I agree no loan players and fewer senior pros is a positive step.

My concern is that instead of encouraging us to use youth products, players are just being played out of position and we're only making 2 subs not 3 if we've only got 2 experienced pros on the bench.

Yearwood has sat on the bench 11 times this season and come on once and that was because of injury and the defence and midfield options were Coutts, Matsuzaka, Bridge and Yearwood.

There have been plenty of games where the match is over (Wigan, Doncaster, Fleetwood, Rotherham etc when he could have come on and gained experience) but he's been overlooked.
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
16,143
I agree no loan players and fewer senior pros is a positive step.

My concern is that instead of encouraging us to use youth products, players are just being played out of position and we're only making 2 subs not 3 if we've only got 2 experienced pros on the bench.

Yearwood has sat on the bench 11 times this season and come on once and that was because of injury and the defence and midfield options were Coutts, Matsuzaka, Bridge and Yearwood.

There have been plenty of games where the match is over (Wigan, Doncaster, Fleetwood, Rotherham etc when he could have come on and gained experience) but he's been overlooked.

I don't think that's necessarily the reason. PB has always only made 2 substitutions if he can get away with it. He seems to like to keep one back in case of an injury late on...

I do agree, however, that it would be useful to be able to play the likes of Yearwood, Bwomono, Matsuzaka and Kyprianou more regularly, but I would like it to be when it's less important, i.e. when we're already winning (as opposed to mile behind) and they're able to play with less pressure on them.
 

Yorkshire Blue

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I don't think that's necessarily the reason. PB has always only made 2 substitutions if he can get away with it. He seems to like to keep one back in case of an injury late on...

He's used all 3 subs 11 times this season out of 16 league games.

Now let's look at the players he's using from the bench:

Youth players on the bench
Yearwood has had 1 appearance (enforced because of injury) from 11 league matches on the bench
Bridge has had 1 appearance (all of 5 minutes) from 4 league matches on the bench. It obviously was a very unimpressive 5 minutes because he hasn't been seen in the League since.
Bwomono has had 0 appearances from 6 league matches on the bench.
Ba has had 0 appearance from 7 league matches on the bench.
Klass has had 0 appearances from 4 league matches on the bench.
Obviously neither keeper has had a sub appearance but that's to be expected.

Experienced players on the bench
Robinson 13 appearances from 15 league matches on the bench
McLaughlin 7 appearances from 8 league matches on the bench
McGlashan 4 appearances from 8 league matches on the bench
Dimitrou 1 appearance from 1 league match on the bench
White 3 appearances from 4 league matches on the bench
Fortune 3 appearnces from 7 league matches on the bench
Cox 2 appearances from 2 league matches on the bench
etc
 

southendkid

Director⭐
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
4,730
He's used all 3 subs 11 times this season out of 16 league games.

Now let's look at the players he's using from the bench:

Youth players on the bench
Yearwood has had 1 appearance (enforced because of injury) from 11 league matches on the bench
Bridge has had 1 appearance (all of 5 minutes) from 4 league matches on the bench. It obviously was a very unimpressive 5 minutes because he hasn't been seen in the League since.
Bwomono has had 0 appearances from 6 league matches on the bench.
Ba has had 0 appearance from 7 league matches on the bench.
Klass has had 0 appearances from 4 league matches on the bench.
Obviously neither keeper has had a sub appearance but that's to be expected.

Experienced players on the bench
Robinson 13 appearances from 15 league matches on the bench
McLaughlin 7 appearances from 8 league matches on the bench
McGlashan 4 appearances from 8 league matches on the bench
Dimitrou 1 appearance from 1 league match on the bench
White 3 appearances from 4 league matches on the bench
Fortune 3 appearnces from 7 league matches on the bench
Cox 2 appearances from 2 league matches on the bench
etc

Typically we are bringing players on when we start to look nervy, so Brown is going to opt for an experienced head that will calm things down rather than a kid that could make mistakes and lead to more pressure. If we go a couple of goals ahead maybe Brown will be more comfortable giving a kid some minutes, but we've not been in that position often this season unfortunately.
 

Yorkshire Blue

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Typically we are bringing players on when we start to look nervy, so Brown is going to opt for an experienced head that will calm things down rather than a kid that could make mistakes and lead to more pressure. If we go a couple of goals ahead maybe Brown will be more comfortable giving a kid some minutes, but we've not been in that position often this season unfortunately.

So when will the kids second, third and fourth year pros get experience?

I don't think only picking them when we are 3 goals up is a realistic ploy.

And last season even when we were 3-0 up against 10 man Wimbledon, or 3-0 up against Coventry Brown refused to bring on Bridge.

Bwomono obviously wasn't on the bench as we had signed our third senior right-back and so was only 5th choice.
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
16,143
He's used all 3 subs 11 times this season out of 16 league games.

Now let's look at the players he's using from the bench:

Youth players on the bench
Yearwood has had 1 appearance (enforced because of injury) from 11 league matches on the bench
Bridge has had 1 appearance (all of 5 minutes) from 4 league matches on the bench. It obviously was a very unimpressive 5 minutes because he hasn't been seen in the League since.
Bwomono has had 0 appearances from 6 league matches on the bench.
Ba has had 0 appearance from 7 league matches on the bench.
Klass has had 0 appearances from 4 league matches on the bench.
Obviously neither keeper has had a sub appearance but that's to be expected.

Experienced players on the bench
Robinson 13 appearances from 15 league matches on the bench
McLaughlin 7 appearances from 8 league matches on the bench
McGlashan 4 appearances from 8 league matches on the bench
Dimitrou 1 appearance from 1 league match on the bench
White 3 appearances from 4 league matches on the bench
Fortune 3 appearnces from 7 league matches on the bench
Cox 2 appearances from 2 league matches on the bench
etc

Interesting, maybe my perception is wrong, but I definitely remember hearing PB interviewed (some time last season) when he mentioned keeping a substitution back for late in the game just in case. So, I guess the next question is at what point in the match were these substitutions made? I suspect for the most part 2 will have been made around 60-70 minutes, and a third later on.
 

Yorkshire Blue

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35,899
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London
Interesting, maybe my perception is wrong, but I definitely remember hearing PB interviewed (some time last season) when he mentioned keeping a substitution back for late in the game just in case. So, I guess the next question is at what point in the match were these substitutions made? I suspect for the most part 2 will have been made around 60-70 minutes, and a third later on.

Rotherham all three by 66 minutes
Rochdale all three by 70 minutes
Charlton all three by 75 minutes
Shrewsbury all three by 85 minutes (this was Bridge's only 5 minutes this season)
Northampton all three by 76 minutes
Fleetwood all three by 77 minutes
Wimbledon all three by 80 minutes
Blackpool all three by 79 minutes
Doncaster all three by 65 minutes
Wigan all three by 79 minutes
Bury all three by 89 minutes
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
16,143
Rotherham all three by 66 minutes
Rochdale all three by 70 minutes
Charlton all three by 75 minutes
Shrewsbury all three by 85 minutes (this was Bridge's only 5 minutes this season)
Northampton all three by 76 minutes
Fleetwood all three by 77 minutes
Wimbledon all three by 80 minutes
Blackpool all three by 79 minutes
Doncaster all three by 65 minutes
Wigan all three by 79 minutes
Bury all three by 89 minutes

So there's a fair spread of early and late...although I would class anything after 75 mins as late in the game, which would make it that 70% of those where he has used 3 subs, at least one has indeed been kept back.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
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Messages
35,899
Location
London
So there's a fair spread of early and late...although I would class anything after 75 mins as late in the game, which would make it that 70% of those where he has used 3 subs, at least one has indeed been kept back.

Time between 2nd and 3rd sub

Rotherham 6 minutes
Rochdale 15 minutes
Charlton 0 minutes
Shrewsbury 6 minutes
Northampton 10 minutes
Fleetwood 7 minutes
Wimbledon 10 minutes
Blackpool 6 minutes
Doncaster 12 minutes
Wigan 8 minutes
Bury 21 minutes

I'm sure this average 9 minutes between the second and third sub is all important and completely justifies the lack of opportunities given to youngsters.
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
16,143
Time between 2nd and 3rd sub

Rotherham 6 minutes
Rochdale 15 minutes
Charlton 0 minutes
Shrewsbury 6 minutes
Northampton 10 minutes
Fleetwood 7 minutes
Wimbledon 10 minutes
Blackpool 6 minutes
Doncaster 12 minutes
Wigan 8 minutes
Bury 21 minutes

I'm sure this average 9 minutes between the second and third sub is all important and completely justifies the lack of opportunities given to youngsters.

Correct.

Less facetiously, my point is that youngsters should be given a chance, but I don't want them coming on if we're chasing a game that we could win/draw, or if we're holding on in a game that we might not win. It's unfair on them and won't really do their progression much good if they're the ones that screw up. I would rather they came on in games where we are, say 2 up with 10 minutes to go so that they're not put under undue pressure.

It would also make sense for them to play in less meaningful matches such as the Checkatrade etc.

The point about the substitutions was to see if PB was actually doing what he has previously said, i.e. holding back a substitution just in case. It seems on the face of it that he is but only sometimes. I guess the nature of the game is that, as a manager, you have to adapt to different scenarios and even if you want to do that more often, circumstances will often dictate otherwise.
 

Massimo Giovanni

Old Timer⭐
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
8,394
Location
Siena
I noted that Manc C used a few of the World Cup winning lads as subs in their Chumps league match last night!
But tonight Chelski field a team devoid of ANY UK players (not just English) and include NONE of their young "stars" in the match squad.:angry:
 
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