you are all going to hate me for it, but i think it is time for tilson to go!!!

[palexander]

I'll tell you why you're wrong.

Firstly, that was a 4-3-3 that was played, with Scannell and Laurent as wide forwards. It certainly wasn't a 4-5-1...

I know what you are saying, but we dont have the players to play the formation. Look at the sides that do it with a degree of success - Chelsea, Barcelona, Man U on occassions - even Arsenal tinker with it.

You need exceptional players to truely make the 451->433 formation work. Very quick wide players that have the intelligence to come inside and join with the front man. You also need a real midfield engine to get up and join in - ala Fabregas, Iniesta or Lampard - not Alan McCormack with the greatest respect (though yes, he did score of course!)

The way we played it - because of our personnel, is very much a 451 - with Paterson a lone figure and Laurent/Scannel sticking very wide and just not good enough to play that way.

The hard thing to swallow is Tilson has stuck with 442 - its got us promoted and to cup finals, yet now - when we have a small squad, he tries to get clever and play a system that just doesnt work in the lower leagues at all. The players are not quick enough, fit enough or intelligent enough to make it work.

 

[Medway Blue]

I know what you are saying, but we dont have the players to play the formation. Look at the sides that do it with a degree of success - Chelsea, Barcelona, Man U on occassions - even Arsenal tinker with it.

You need exceptional players to truely make the 451->433 formation work. Very quick wide players that have the intelligence to come inside and join with the front man. You also need a real midfield engine to get up and join in - ala Fabregas, Iniesta or Lampard - not Alan McCormack with the greatest respect (though yes, he did score of course!)

The way we played it - because of our personnel, is very much a 451 - with Paterson a lone figure and Laurent/Scannel sticking very wide and just not good enough to play that way.

The hard thing to swallow is Tilson has stuck with 442 - its got us promoted and to cup finals, yet now - when we have a small squad, he tries to get clever and play a system that just doesnt work in the lower leagues at all. The players are not quick enough, fit enough or intelligent enough to make it work.

I see what you mean. I was just observing that I think it was definitely an attempt on Tilly's part to play more of a 4-3-3, especially when going forwards, athough it might not have worked out that way for the whole 90 minutes.

I kept a close eye on Scannell, and he, although not so much Laurent, drifted in to join Paterson and stayed central a lot. I think they were set-up like a 4-3-3, but as you said, I don't think our players have the right attributes to keep shape in a formation like that, which is probably why it looked more like a 4-5-1 at times.

I really don't think it was meant to be though, and I don't think even the worst manager in football would be silly enough to set-up with a 4-5-1 at home, unless his team were being visited by another team that was vastly superior.

 

[BoyWonder2]

Yes, he has been a great manager
Yes he has had to battle through hard times
Yes he has had his hands tied with signing etc
BUT
He cannot blame anybody but himself for todays crass effort!
4-5-1 at home against one of the worst teams in the division
Leaving debutant Patterson up front on his own without any support
failing to change it when it was clearly not going well
Making unbelievable substitutions in taking off grant and leaving on the hapless scannell which nearly cost us the game
Dougie Freedman!!!
James Walker!!!!
Why no christophe?

This game is all about opinions and you will all tell me why I am wrong but for me, Tilly has got no clue as to how to set the team up, how to tactically approach different oponents and how to make the most of the substitutions!!! Maybe he is just a little stale (who wouldnt be) but we do not have time to fiddle while rome burns!!! If we dont start putting a run together soon we will be down in the mire and with our resources and finances I think it could be a very slipery slope indeed!

UTB

I'm not going to have a go at you for voicing your opinions but it seems to me you are basing this all on one game, which was extremely poor I agree.

I'm a big Tilson fan, and he would probably admit to getting it wrong on Saturday, but you can't have a go at him for the "crass effort" as you put it. That is down to individuals. Tilson could say all the right things, offer him rewards for performing and effort, but that means nothing if a player can't be arsed, or goes hiding when not performing well.

Yes, I agree, shouldn't have played 4-5-1. I'd only ever consider that one away from home, and even then I'd be loathed to try it.

Yes, he shouldn't have left Paterson upfront on his own, but the idea of 4-5-1 is when you have the ball, you effectively become 4-3-3. I can see the pros and cons of that tactic and it was obvious it didn't work on Saturday, but thats not to say it won't work tomorrow night for example.

Failing to change it? He made all 3 subs he had available to him in bringing on Freedman, Spencer and Walker.

Grant was taken off because he is a holding midfielder, and we wanted to become more attacking and change to a 4-4-2, or 4-4-1-1 with Freedman dropping off from Spencer. Scannell, in my opinion, was our best outfield player and by keeping him on (Even though he went off for Walker) how did that nearly cost us the game?

Why would you bring JFC on, who is another holding midfielder?

Why base it all on one poor game. This season we will probably play poor again, and win a game, we will probably play very well and lose. Saturday was a case of playing poor, and picking up a point.

Keep the faith, Tilson will be here for a while yet!

 

[fredheim_holm]

If Tilly leaves I will actually cry.

 

[Tilson_Blues]

Yes, he has been a great manager
Yes he has had to battle through hard times
Yes he has had his hands tied with signing etc
BUT
He cannot blame anybody but himself for todays crass effort!
4-5-1 at home against one of the worst teams in the division
Leaving debutant Patterson up front on his own without any support
failing to change it when it was clearly not going well
Making unbelievable substitutions in taking off grant and leaving on the hapless scannell which nearly cost us the game
Dougie Freedman!!!
James Walker!!!!
Why no christophe?

This game is all about opinions and you will all tell me why I am wrong but for me, Tilly has got no clue as to how to set the team up, how to tactically approach different oponents and how to make the most of the substitutions!!! Maybe he is just a little stale (who wouldnt be) but we do not have time to fiddle while rome burns!!! If we dont start putting a run together soon we will be down in the mire and with our resources and finances I think it could be a very slipery slope indeed!

UTB

haha i dont hate you just cant see where your coming from awful argument next you will be telling me gordon browns a good primminister

 

[canveyshrimper]

haha i dont hate you just cant see where your coming from awful argument next you will be telling me gordon browns a good primminister

I may do so if I knew what a primminster was.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Surely Tilly is only playing 4-3-3/4-5-1 because of the resources at his disposal. Arguably our strongest area, in terms of personnel is central midfield with Macca, Grant, Christophe and Moussa all established 1st team pros. I guess he wants to play as many of his best players as possible so they've either got to play out of position or we try a different formation.

IMHO it didn't work on Saturday - I think in particular Scannell left Malone too exposed a lot of the time which meant Barrett had to come across and help him leaving the middle exposed, however if Laurent hadn't have missed his sitter and Paterson had slotted home that one on one, we may not have been quite so scathing of the system.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I think the bloke is a legend with what he has had to put up with and work with, I could actually see the club go to non league without tilly at the helm, lets judge him again when and if he is eve given a budget and the chance to bring in players that he actually wants and to be given a squad that he can actually work with if he still fails on a level playing filed but I think its a bit hard to judge any manager working in these horrendous conditions

Spot on. You can't blame Tilly for going 4-5-1 when he lost the team's main (sole?) attacking threat, and hadn't even met his replacement - Paterson - until earlier this week.

As Tilly gets more familiar with Spencer and Paterson, and as they get to know each other - and the rest of their team-mates - better, we'll slowly adopt a more orthodox 4-4-2, especially in games we're expected to win at home.

Until then, however, expect us to flood the midfield and adopt a safety-first strategy. I see us playing 4-5-1 again tonight; Tilly likes the possibility of stringing five across the middle of the park, but being able to go 4-3-3 when we're attacking. I'm sure Tilly's preferred line-up is:

......................Mildenhall..............................

Sankofa........Francis........Barrett..........Malone

Laurent....Grant....McCormack....JFC......Moussa

......................Paterson..............................

 

[palexander]

Spot on. You can't blame Tilly for going 4-5-1 when he lost the team's main (sole?) attacking threat, and hadn't even met his replacement - Paterson - until earlier this week.

As Tilly gets more familiar with Spencer and Paterson, and as they get to know each other - and the rest of their team-mates - better, we'll slowly adopt a more orthodox 4-4-2, especially in games we're expected to win at home.

Until then, however, expect us to flood the midfield and adopt a safety-first strategy. I see us playing 4-5-1 again tonight; Tilly likes the possibility of stringing five across the middle of the park, but being able to go 4-3-3 when we're attacking. I'm sure Tilly's preferred line-up is:

......................Mildenhall..............................

Sankofa........Francis........Barrett..........Malone

Laurent....Grant....McCormack....JFC......Moussa

......................Paterson..............................

One of the problems though Matt, is even when flooding the midfield - by Tilsons own admission, we were wide open - counter-intuitive to what the 4-5-1 is all about.

I'm not saying 4-4-2 would make us tighter per-se, but by having Grant and JFC in the center of midfield would certainly make us more disciplined and from your side above, I'd sacrifice Macca for ANY of our forwards (though preferrably Spencer from what I have seen of him) to make the formation a more orthodox and familiar (to the players at this level) 4-4-2.

 

[leeblue]

I love tilly, but whatever he planned for sat, looked like a 4-5-1 cos no one helped that poor b***ard paterson up top on saturday, tilly got it wrong end of, we should play 4-4-****ing two...........thank you

 

[Tilson_Blues]

not hating you just laughing at how ridiculas u are

 

[MARKET HARBORO]

One question -

"Who could we get who would come in and do a better job than Tilly under these circumstances?"

tilson does not motivate from within players amazed that they have not got a good telling off after some games this season

 

[RettendonCB]

I'm not saying 4-4-2 would make us tighter per-se, but by having Grant and JFC in the center of midfield would certainly make us more disciplined and from your side above, I'd sacrifice Macca for ANY of our forwards (though preferrably Spencer from what I have seen of him) to make the formation a more orthodox and familiar (to the players at this level) 4-4-2.

are u absolutely mad? dropping our only creative midfield player? really smart that lets play two defensive, originally centre backs

 

[palexander]

I'm not saying 4-4-2 would make us tighter per-se, but by having Grant and JFC in the center of midfield would certainly make us more disciplined and from your side above, I'd sacrifice Macca for ANY of our forwards (though preferrably Spencer from what I have seen of him) to make the formation a more orthodox and familiar (to the players at this level) 4-4-2.

are u absolutely mad? dropping our only creative midfield player? really smart that lets play two defensive, originally centre backs

Ha! Whether Grant and JFC were CBs or not is irrellevent - they are now defensive midfielders.

I'd argue Laurent is our most 'creative' midfielder - christ, Macca can barely find another blue shirt, so I'd like to know how that makes him creative.

The reason for the formation and line up is to give us cover infront of the back 4 - something Tilson and Macca bemoaned Saturday and allow Laurent and Moussa to have a bit more freedom getting forward to support the front men - knowing Grant and JFC will be holding the fort.

Is a popular formation a lot of teams adopt (Arsenal for one at times pre-Fabregas) and one I think would work with our current personnel.

 

[southend4ever]

Tilly will never get sacked. The poor bloke has done wonders at the club thus proving that he is a good manager. He now has no resources, the club are in a perilous financial position and still on the verge of going into administration. Ron would never get a manager in that could work the team like Steve does.

 

[TrueBlue]

Tilly will never get sacked. The poor bloke has done wonders at the club thus proving that he is a good manager. He now has no resources, the club are in a perilous financial position and still on the verge of going into administration. Ron would never get a manager in that could work the team like Steve does.

Last night and Saturday was Tilsons fault

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

Last night and Saturday was Tilsons fault

FFS mate shut up !!! ... every bloody thread i try to read has you all over it like a rash, its doing my head in :headbang: :dizzy:

 

[southend4ever]

Last night and Saturday was Tilsons fault

Hindsight is a lovely thing - we will never know if a different formation or starting XI would have changed the game. The team is quite simply no better than a very low bottom half team without a goalscorer. That is not Tilson's thought.

 

[TrueBlue]

FFS mate shut up !!! ... every bloody thread i try to read has you all over it like a rash, its doing my head in :headbang: :dizzy:

You just don't like the fact as allot on here that Tilsons got it wrong, I don't like it either but we move on to next game.

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

You just don't like the fact as allot on here that Tilsons got it wrong, I don't like it either but we move on to next game.

I agree to a certain extent, but you are putting the same arguments on every thread mate, we can't even move onto the next game, as you suggest, because the Swindon Pre-Match thread (started by Drastic) has a "Its Tilsons fault" post in it already !!!