Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So what point are making? Hitler didn't support the Jewish right to self determination. His party was against that. Moreover, he wanted to rid the world of Jews. This was stated in Mein Kampf. Which bit of that is zionist?

If I've understood you correctly you're conceding that point, but saying it's because this was a TV/radio interview and they didn't have time to go into detail. That says to me that you're now accepting that point, but defending the indefensible. It also begs the question as to why we haven't had an apology from the idiot yet. The reason can really only be because he still can't see he's done anything wrong; something you at least seem to be realising.

I'm not at last seeing anything I hadn't already seen. Hitler had an agreement with Zionists in Germany - that is a historical fact and that is what Livingstone was referring to. The fact that he cut a deal for Jews to leave Germany because he hated Jews is obvious to everyone. He then expressed his hatred through genocide. Everyone knows that these are facts (other than holocaust deniers like David Irving and Nick Griffin). Livingstone's statement was clumsy and badly timed which makes him a liability in his public pronouncements rather than anti-Semitic. The clue is in the 2nd part of his very short remark where he mentions Hitler going mad and murdering Jewish people.

 

[londonblue]

I'm not at last seeing anything I hadn't already seen. Hitler had an agreement with Zionists in Germany - that is a historical fact and that is what Livingstone was referring to. The fact that he cut a deal for Jews to leave Germany because he hated Jews is obvious to everyone. He then expressed his hatred through genocide. Everyone knows that these are facts (other than holocaust deniers like David Irving and Nick Griffin). Livingstone's statement was clumsy and badly timed which makes him a liability in his public pronouncements rather than anti-Semitic. The clue is in the 2nd part of his very short remark where he mentions Hitler going mad and murdering Jewish people.

Then we'll have to disagree to disagree. But it seems to me you're backtracking (slightly). The idiot used that agreement to justify his comment that Hitler supported Zionism. That agreement proves nothing of the sort, and is a re-write of history for all the reasons previously put forward.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Then we'll have to disagree to disagree. But it seems to me your backtracking (slightly). The idiot used that agreement to justify his comment that Hitler supported Zionism. That agreement proves nothing of the sort, and is a re-write of history for all the reasons previously put forward.

No backtracking needed or offered. Yes let's agree to disagree.

 

[superblue24]

Looks like another casualty

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36621777

 

[amsemp]

Jeremy Corbyn resignation speech about to be live on Sky News.

 

[Supernaut]

Jeremy Corbyn resignation speech about to be live on Sky News.

You're a bit premature there, sadly!

 

[amsemp]

You're a bit premature there, sadly!

Damn. What a shame!

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Half the shadow cabinet set to walk - I give the new style of politics until the end of the day.

 

[superblue24]

Another fine mess the Labour Party are in. They really are a joke party!

 

[Supernaut]

I wonder if Labour sense an amazing opportunity here - if they could somehow force a GE, make their main election manifesto pledge the reversal of the Leave vote, and then won the GE by a sizeable majority, they'd have to power to attempt to negotiate said reversal. The problem they have is how to overturn the referendum vote. They'd have to mobilise much of the 25% who didn't vote and also make sure they voted for them, or somehow turn Scotland red again.

 

[Gremlin]

I'd like to see Steptoe stay. It's been hilarious thus far and shows no sign of stopping.

 

[amsemp]

I wonder if Labour sense an amazing opportunity here - if they could somehow force a GE, make their main election manifesto pledge the reversal of the Leave vote, and then won the GE by a sizeable majority, they'd have to power to attempt to negotiate said reversal. The problem they have is how to overturn the referendum vote. They'd have to mobilise much of the 25% who didn't vote and also make sure they voted for them, or somehow turn Scotland red again.

Or form a coalition with the SNP :stunned:

 

[callan]

Wasn't Brexit supposed to rip the tories apart?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36632956

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

There is no way Corbyn can survive this, the ball is now rolling. Hilary Benn said Corbyn's a nice guy, but not a leader. I could have told him that in the first week, especially after the first Prime Ministers question time, even without seeing what a damp squib he was on the EU Referendum.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Corbyn was way out of his depth from day one. Massive own goal by the Labour party. He might be a thoroughly decent and principled man but he was not leadership material.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Wasn't Brexit supposed to rip the tories apart?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36632956

yes and it did

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Corbyn was way out of his depth from day one. Massive own goal by the Labour party. He might be a thoroughly decent and principled man but he was not leadership material.

He is decent and principled and that appeals to the the Labour membership but we are lead to believe not so much with the general public. How much the second part is true is unclear as Labour has won big in London, Bristol and Sheffield in the last significant elections but not elsewhere and not made up ground in Scotland.

The Conservatives have managed one coalition and one year before falling apart - now should be the time for Labour to take advantage but it feels too early.

The issue for Labour is that the potential leaders lost to Corbyn already, plus Chuka who felt it was too soon for him, plus Alan Johnson who didn't want it and has since headed the losing Remain campaign. So we have a leader with a massive mandate who in theory wouldn't win a general election (though the cites so far have indicated that is not necessarily the case) and some MPs who are very jumpy about missing the chance in an early election.
Problematic.

Not a great time for UK politics - none of the parties have any leadership that you can guarantee is permanent, none of the parties have any sign of unity, none of the parties have any real vision of where we will be in 2 years. Not a time for anyone to gloat, each and every party is in disarray.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I wonder if Labour sense an amazing opportunity here - if they could somehow force a GE, make their main election manifesto pledge the reversal of the Leave vote, and then won the GE by a sizeable majority, they'd have to power to attempt to negotiate said reversal. The problem they have is how to overturn the referendum vote. They'd have to mobilise much of the 25% who didn't vote and also make sure they voted for them, or somehow turn Scotland red again.

This does make sense. But is a gamble. 3.2 million have signed the 2nd referendum petition and Farage himself had said in May that if Leave narrowly lost he would campaign for a 2nd referendum (not that he has a mandate to claim anything (and the petition signees may eclipse the UKIP voters soon)) and the Leave campaign is backtracking on some of its claims. not accepting the result may seem undemocratic, but in other ways less so. Corbyn's way is too accept the result. Without him there could be a different approach and the membership may go for that but it may alienate the Northern towns more.
SNP want to Remain, if putting Independence on the backfoot could be the way to stay in the EU that may be possible.

Interesting suggestion but lots of ifs and buts.

 

[Gremlin]

But is a gamble. 3.2 million have signed the 2nd referendum petition

Is this the petition that includes >33,000 online signatures originating from Vatican City (pop. 800)?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Is this the petition that includes >33,000 online signatures originating from Vatican City (pop. 800)?

you tell me? where did that info come from?